Mass Effect Mod --- In process of planning - Endless Space

Mass Effect Mod --- In process of planning

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Kaidishart

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Kaidishart

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12 years ago

Dec 27, 2012, 6:11:50 PM

I'm actually making a mass effect mod (http://www.moddb.com/mods/endless-effect)

I did not think i would get this far ,i started just over a week ago and have made a lot of progress. The models seen in the previews wont be in the mod because i am actually using the models created by the dawn of the reapers mod (sins of a solar empire) when they are finished i have their permission to use the models in my mod. I haven't really thought about the design aspect of the mod ,apart from the Alliance, Salarian, Asari, Turians, Geth, Quarians, collectors, Batarians and all minor races will defiantly be in the mod and the reapers will make an entrance but i am not sure how. However i am focusing on getting ship models in-game and creating planet textures. I could use someone who designs the anomolies, Wonders and random events. Everything else (at the moment)i can do.

If you would like to help message me.

thanks

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Veneke

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Veneke

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13 years ago

Aug 8, 2012, 6:40:13 AM

Harel55 wrote:
For some reason the text "That only the Salarians can research!" didn't appear until I tried quoting you, and it still doesn't appear on your original message. Anyways, I agree with your sentiments on having it researchable and I think it would add a lot of interest to any galaxy containing both Salarians and Krogan.

I edited it a few times, it could be that I only hit save after you quoted. It would definitely be an interesting and entertaining mechanic, given that once cured Krogan pop growth would need to explode in the other direction. At the moment I can't se why the Salarians would cure it unless they were very close allies or there was some positive effect on Salarian worlds for curing it (a big approval bonus? Not really in keeping with the lore though...). Or it could be stolen from the Salarians either by a series of events or under a specific set of circumstances. Example: Any player with Mordin, Shepherd, Wrex, Eve etc has a certain (very small) % chance of triggering an event that steals the cure from the Salarians with multiple of the aforementioned characters increasing the % chance. I dunno, but there are some interesting options you could explore with that aspect alone.

One issue which shouldn't be a problem but might be is copyright. Most companies don't mind mods for this that or the other thing provided its under fair use but some can get very angsty about it and I'm not sure on EA/BW's take on it.

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Hupailija

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Hupailija

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13 years ago

Aug 7, 2012, 8:47:04 PM

How do you plan to simulate following things from Mass Effect:

1) Moving from 1 system to another, basically there should be either massive amount of wormholes or just couple systems per game

2) Lack of Kinetic and Missile weapons in space fight (if I remember right there wasn't single case in entire game where anyone would have fired missile in space fight)

also races causes lots of problems... mainly in case of Krogan, Geth, Turian and Rachni (oh and your heretics too).

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Wotan

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Wotan

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13 years ago

Aug 7, 2012, 8:54:48 PM

I just said that they could be there. Not, that they have to be their i didn´t even think about this that much, i opened the thread to let people discuss and plan such a mod. i dont see any problems with the races actually. and the suggestion of many worholes is a good point ..i think.

that you didnt see any missiles doesnt mean that they could never be there and its absurd if you would mod them in. just think of the end of mass effect. its shit. many players use their fantasy to produce their own ending. Can you think by yourself ?

smiley: biggrin

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davea

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davea

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13 years ago

Aug 7, 2012, 9:20:00 PM

Wotan wrote:
Can you think by yourself ?

Ooh, *this* should be fun to watch.

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Wotan

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Wotan

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13 years ago

Aug 7, 2012, 9:31:31 PM

Just sort of joke no offense of course

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VIPiblise

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VIPiblise

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13 years ago

Aug 7, 2012, 10:06:38 PM

davea wrote:

Wotan wrote:
Can you think by yourself ?
Ooh, *this* should be fun to watch.

Rofl

Edit: quotes don't count toward my character limit?!? I swear this forum...

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Harel55

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Harel55

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13 years ago

Aug 7, 2012, 11:27:15 PM

I like the idea, perhaps add a few new strategic resources such as Iridium and Element Zero, or maybe change a few things around and change ES resources with similar functions as ME ones into their ME counterparts, e.g. hexaferrum into iridium and dust into element zero.

Also, you would need to do a lot of work to make star travel similar to the ME way of doing things.

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Wotan

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Wotan

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13 years ago

Aug 8, 2012, 12:29:24 AM

yeah that would be pretty hard. i thank god that i cant mod anyways. i could just help in story and design questions after playing mass effect for years and studying strategies ._.

hope we find some awesome people to make this a mod

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Hupailija

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Hupailija

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13 years ago

Aug 8, 2012, 5:09:54 AM

Wotan wrote:
I just said that they could be there. Not, that they have to be their i didn´t even think about this that much, i opened the thread to let people discuss and plan such a mod. i dont see any problems with the races actually. and the suggestion of many worholes is a good point ..i think.

that you didnt see any missiles doesnt mean that they could never be there and its absurd if you would mod them in. just think of the end of mass effect. its shit. many players use their fantasy to produce their own ending. Can you think by yourself ?

Can I think myself? well thats funny question seeing that you ask that from me.

Anyway problem with Mass Effect is that it's first and foremost roleplaying game and story, it's world is wellmade and solid.

Start to add and change things and suddenly you don't anymore have Mass Effect but game which pretends to be one.

You could easily add multiple Rachni queens for each solar system but hey, that would be against story.

You could cure Xenophage from Krogans but again you would be going against canon.

You could remove need of massportals but uhm, you know... it wouldn't be mass effect anymore.

So either you:

a) Want mod where is Lizardpeople, Insect, Human, "Solar Federation-like" (incase you wonder what I mean I recommend checking vga planets races), Warrior, Mage and scientists. (wonder whether I forget something)

or

b) You want to add things to this game what you just can't add (and some which doesn't make any sense)..

Also Mass Effect universe relies heavily to either a) Spacestations (Citadel being good example, it's quite far from any planet and still houses more population than most planets) b) Planetary exploring. (Vital part of any game.. except ME3 and we can forget that game, well ending was nice but rest of it).

Of course this all becomes invalid if you say that stargazer was telling story and really none of those races were anything like he described.

But then again we are in phase a where game wouldn't be mass effect but would share some similar races and things.

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Veneke

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Veneke

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13 years ago

Aug 8, 2012, 6:19:23 AM

Hupailija wrote:
...

Anyway problem with Mass Effect is that it's first and foremost roleplaying game and story, it's world is wellmade and solid.

Start to add and change things and suddenly you don't anymore have Mass Effect but game which pretends to be one.

...

Also Mass Effect universe relies heavily to either a) Spacestations (Citadel being good example, it's quite far from any planet and still houses more population than most planets) b) Planetary exploring. (Vital part of any game.. except ME3 and we can forget that game, well ending was nice but rest of it).

...

Actually, it should be reasonably easy to make a Mass Effect mod for ES, the game has many of the underlying concepts that drove the backdrop to that series (focus on space flight, an enigmatic elder race, bad guys, wormwholes/very fast space travel, multiple races with inherent advantages and disadvantages etc).

1. Mass Effect Relays? Check. Every 'starlane' is a wormwhole (it doesn't need to go to every other system, ME relays don't do this, they go to a few specific systems - some only go to one) and give every race the starting tech to warp between stars but keep the wormwhole travel tech as it is - you could potentially shove it further down the tree, in fact. I'd be very surprised if this was difficult. When/if you get really fancy hide the wormwholes from view and replace them with ME relays in-system, which may be difficult.

2. Races in Mass Effect? Check. We could probably do this now.

3. Events and planetary exploration? Check. Add in more events and moons to explore. If possible link events with the exploration of new systems. That last point is probably the single most difficult thing to do so far.

4. Lots of starbases? Check. Adjust the turn count from colony to influence-producing star system from 30 (I think) to 0 for certain star systems. These star systems would simply have 1 planet. Change the image file from a planet to a space station. That could be difficult, actually, it'll probably be very difficult - potentially impossible - but the imagery aside the mechanics you're looking for would be present. The remaining star systems would simply follow the ME galaxy map for planets etc.

5. Rannoch? Difficult, mainly because the Quarians would eventually need new mechanics, but you could make do with a mix of tech tree changes, Errant Fleet and the Cravers affinity. It wouldn't be a pretty solution but it should work.

6. Kinetics and Beams are both in the ME universe. I'm not sure about how to incorporate Missiles but they could either be removed or adjusted to emulate thanix cannons or a variety of other options.

7. The Xenophage is easy, just give the Krogan a severe penalty to pop growth. You could even get very fancy and have the Xenophage cure as a tradable commodity that only the Salarians can research!

8. The Rachnii are easily done, I'm not sure why you think the queen is an impediment. In fact, I can't even understand your objection. Could you clarify?

My point, which I think I've amply demonstrated, is that having a mod putting ES in the Mass Effect Universe is not any more difficult than putting ES in any other kind of universe. It's actually a pretty neat idea and certainly a mod I would get and contribute to if asked.

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Harel55

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Harel55

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13 years ago

Aug 8, 2012, 6:27:11 AM

Veneke wrote:
7. The Xenophage is easy, just give the Krogan a severe penalty to pop growth. You could even get very fancy and have the Xenophage cure as a tradable commodity that only the Salarians can research!

For some reason the text "That only the Salarians can research!" didn't appear until I tried quoting you, and it still doesn't appear on your original message. Anyways, I agree with your sentiments on having it researchable and I think it would add a lot of interest to any galaxy containing both Salarians and Krogan.

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Wotan

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Wotan

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13 years ago

Aug 7, 2012, 6:15:03 PM

I would really like to have a Mass Effect Mod in the game so i started this thread!

Maybe the factions could be Salarian, Human, Krogan, Rachni, Geth, Heretics, Turian, Batarian, Asari?

This Thread is open for any Suggestion. Maybe we find a Mod-Team to create this. I would help with the Design/Balancing.

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Harel55

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Harel55

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13 years ago

Aug 8, 2012, 7:51:17 AM

I'd say that the technology would be a side-effect of a research technology of the Salarians. After it is researched, it is treated like any other technology and can be traded. I'm not sure if the trading AI is capable of assigning value to an object based on how much the recipient needs it, but if it can, the Krogan would have to pay heavily for the cure.

P.S. You kept saying Xenophage, it's called the Genophage.

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Veneke

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Veneke

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13 years ago

Aug 8, 2012, 8:55:43 AM

Would you believe that I read the initial poster and simply assumed I was wrong to spell it 'Genophage'? That's what I get for not trusting myself!

I don't know the AI coding very well but my initial impression is that it does assign some kind of value for every tech. I don't think it weights them differently depending on need, though I'm open to correction. A Tech rather than a commodity? That could well work better. I think it depends on how the AI handles its weighting in trades. Whether it's a Tech or a Commodity might depend on how the Krogan affinity of pop-negative to pop-positive is shifted but assuming it's as easy/difficult to do either then I think the tie-breaker is the AI's ability to understand its importance.

P.S. Just to clarify but what was going through my mind in the above post when I said 'steal' was 'forced one way permanent trade under the hood'.

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Hupailija

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Hupailija

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13 years ago

Aug 8, 2012, 1:16:29 PM

Veneke wrote:
Actually, it should be reasonably easy to make a Mass Effect mod for ES, the game has many of the underlying concepts that drove the backdrop to that series (focus on space flight, an enigmatic elder race, bad guys, wormwholes/very fast space travel, multiple races with inherent advantages and disadvantages etc).

It depends what one wants. If one wants real mass effect and not just "it looks like mass effect" mod it's hard. Then again one reason why I keep opposing mods like this is because they really lack imagination. You are set to follow one story and can't really do changes. Also some aspects of story are hard to transfer.

1. Mass Effect Relays? Check. Every 'starlane' is a wormwhole (it doesn't need to go to every other system, ME relays don't do this, they go to a few specific systems - some only go to one) and give every race the starting tech to warp between stars but keep the wormwhole travel tech as it is - you could potentially shove it further down the tree, in fact. I'd be very surprised if this was difficult. When/if you get really fancy hide the wormwholes from view and replace them with ME relays in-system, which may be difficult.

Ok, I can't but think either ME1 or ME3 here, usually when I did use Massrelay I managed to get systems with 1-3 other systems. There were LOTS of massrelays.

Of course this could be explained by just pretending that Endless Space systems are really tiny part of whole galaxy. (wonder why you didn't use this card? It would make way more sense)

2. Races in Mass Effect? Check. We could probably do this now.

You saying this to me? I mean look at my mods and then wonder what is possible.

I could have done these races two weeks ago and actually I made couple of these. (just look at my mod compilation and see what kind of races there are).

Only reason I didn't was that I oppose making premade stuff from other stories to games.

3. Events and planetary exploration? Check. Add in more events and moons to explore. If possible link events with the exploration of new systems. That last point is probably the single most difficult thing to do so far.

Uhm, no, it's not that hard.. actually it's fairly easy. If you want I can teach it when I have time or patience.

It's just that this doesn't solve that underlying problem that in Mass Effect almost everything is build on planets where as in Endless Space almost everything is build in space.

4. Lots of starbases? Check. Adjust the turn count from colony to influence-producing star system from 30 (I think) to 0 for certain star systems. These star systems would simply have 1 planet. Change the image file from a planet to a space station. That could be difficult, actually, it'll probably be very difficult - potentially impossible - but the imagery aside the mechanics you're looking for would be present. The remaining star systems would simply follow the ME galaxy map for planets etc.

Easier: Make building called Spacestation and let it do lots of interesting things... if need make it tune down population limit on planets.

6. Kinetics and Beams are both in the ME universe. I'm not sure about how to incorporate Missiles but they could either be removed or adjusted to emulate thanix cannons or a variety of other options.

Problem isn't existance of those weapons... for example Reaper was taken down in London via missiles. Problem is that those weren't used in ships. Those games were build around idea: "ships uses fancy and flashy weapons which does lots of pretty looking damage" not "it has to be working and efficient way to destroy opponent" (bit like you would try to find any kind of military sense in Lotro.. there just isn't anything).

It would make sense to put kinetic / missile weapons to ships but it wouldn't look so flashy so it wouldn't be so mass effective like.

One of those cases where one has to think whether it's better to use sense or stick to book.

7. The Xenophage is easy, just give the Krogan a severe penalty to pop growth. You could even get very fancy and have the Xenophage cure as a tradable commodity that only the Salarians can research!

Except that no, I'm fairly sure that you can't make tech which cuts off trait and give it to race which doesn't have trait. (well ok, I haven't tested this)

Genophage itself is easy, it just quite easily breaks balance. Notice that to balance that in Mass Effect Bioware had a) Make Krogans the best warrior race of game and b) In ME3 tell that Krogans gets so huge amount of childrens that 1% surviving is enough. In ES this would mean that you would have to create superhissho which if it gets cure multiplies faster than rabbits.

8. The Rachnii are easily done, I'm not sure why you think the queen is an impediment. In fact, I can't even understand your objection. Could you clarify?

There is mission in Mass Effect 1 where you attack to laboratory where is living Rachis (before that everyone thought that Rachnis were dead) player finds out there that to get Rahni population one needs Queen which gives birth to chidrens. Also that childrens needs to be close to Queen or they become bloodthirsty monsters.

In Mass Effect time period this Queen from that laboratory is only living Queen of Rachnis. There was just enough Rachnis to populate one planet (of course one could argue that this was because of the deal made with Shephard (Rachins has to stay hidden)) and without that deal there could have multiple queens.

My point, which I think I've amply demonstrated, is that having a mod putting ES in the Mass Effect Universe is not any more difficult than putting ES in any other kind of universe. It's actually a pretty neat idea and certainly a mod I would get and contribute to if asked.

Actually I am doing favor here to entire project (something what I never get on my mods . You have already dozen person saying: "nice idea!" but I'm only one who says: "oh, how are you going to make these to happen?".

That kind of feedback (or what I have found out) is more valuable to programmers / modders than any other since it forces one to think and adapt. (and I really am disappointed that I so rarely get that to my mods).

Only reason why I keep opposing this mod so clearly is because I support it but am also alarmed that it might turn out to be something which just resembles series but isn't really anything like it

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Mansen

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Mansen

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13 years ago

Aug 8, 2012, 3:03:39 PM

Let me stop you there Hupa.

1. The rachni in ME1 are not the only living specimen of the race left in existence. Play ME3 and you'll see this (as poorly as they designed this it IS canon)

2. The Rachni offspring do not require a close vicinity to avoid becoming ... different. It was clearly stated that it was part of their nurture and adolescence. Common earth principle among mammals.

3. Both kinetic and missile weapon systems exist within the ME universe - yes on ships - yes even the capital size ships. You might want to read up on things before you try and state them as fact when your knowledge is flawed.

4. Relays are rare - there is only one for each "constellation" in the ME universe. Fits just fine with Endless Space wormholes - just tie in the "any wormhole to any wormhole" tech as being part of the wormhole travel tech and you've reached a replica.

5. No - most system improvements are certainly not space based. A vast majority are planetbased improvements that are built on each planet in the system. I honestly don't even know what gave you that strange idea...

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Hupailija

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Hupailija

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13 years ago

Aug 8, 2012, 3:20:07 PM

1. The rachni in ME1 are not the only living specimen of the race left in existence. Play ME3 and you'll see this (as poorly as they designed this it IS canon)

Why I remember what in ME3 when I saved that Queen it was same Queen that I did save in ME1. Of course I may have missed something but in ME3 I did play that mission through 3 times (wondering why I have given flamethrower if I have to drop it each time I see eggsack).

2. The Rachni offspring do not require a close vicinity to avoid becoming ... different. It was clearly stated that it was part of their nurture and adolescence. Common earth principle among mammals.

*sigh* You missunderstood me. Problem is not transfering adult members of specie but being able to create new colonies without more than 1 queen.

You know, without more than 1 queen being able to generate offsprings more than in 1 planet becomes bit hard.

3. Both kinetic and missile weapon systems exist within the ME universe - yes on ships - yes even the capital size ships. You might want to read up on things before you try and state them as fact when your knowledge is flawed.

So you are saying that games aren't canon? As I said missile weapons exists atleast in mission London but in ground weapon (used to take 1 reaper) and entire game is based upon kinetic weapons.

Also Mako had missile thrower and that ME2 glider too.

So atleast in 3 cases GAME clearly states that LAND based weapons are kinetic.

Now if they used same weapons in space anywhere in GAMES I am wrong but what I remember in GAMES they didn't.

Remember how in ME2 ultimate weapon for Normandy was laser weapon and how Reapers used Laser weapons.

4. Relays are rare - there is only one for each "constellation" in the ME universe. Fits just fine with Endless Space wormholes - just tie in the "any wormhole to any wormhole" tech as being part of the wormhole travel tech and you've reached a replica.

Seeing ME1, ME2 and ME3 amount of Relays I dare to object with word "rare". In our galaxy in ME3 had about 40-50 Relays and that was way less than in ME1 or ME2. Atleast there was enough that destroying one just caused major annoyance of destroying one specie instead of destroying access to one area of space. (which seeing how people thinks in that world was quite shocking)

5. No - most system improvements are certainly not space based. A vast majority are planetbased improvements that are built on each planet in the system. I honestly don't even know what gave you that strange idea...

So if you build system specific building which increases system bonuses you build it to every single planet... well thats interesting way to think it.

And sadly you just with that managed to kill easy way to make spacestations or flotillas. Oh well, good luck with this mod. I have "bit" bigger project going on.

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Mansen

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Mansen

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13 years ago

Aug 8, 2012, 3:31:30 PM

- You will meet a rachi queen in ME3 regardless of whether you saved one in ME1 - and queens are born, not unique one of a kind creatures that there can only be one of ever. Expanding to new colonies shouldn't be a problem at all. One queen per system - I think you fail to realise how quickly these things reproduced and why they were such a threat that they went near extinct earlier in the universe.

- I am saying that you obviously haven't read up/understood the game - the game doesn't make any mention of missiles being strictly ground weapons. Just because a particular ship design uses lasers to fight CAPITAL SHIP SIZED ENEMIES doesn't mean they are the only viable weapon in space - again read up or stop talking.

- There are less than 20 relays - in the entire Mass Effect universe. Again I repeat the earlier "read up" remark. Relays are solely used to travel between constellations - all other travel between "local" systems is done the old fashion way via FTL engines. Fun fact - travelling from one end of the universe to the other would take you about 30-40 years if you went nonstop.

- The flotilla is dismantled and gone after ME3. The homeworld is recaptured, they resettle. ET CETERA. Spacestations are abstracted in Endless Space. Like it or not.

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Veneke

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Veneke

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13 years ago

Aug 8, 2012, 11:41:05 PM

Hupailija wrote:
Lots of agreeing with me that it would be easy, or even easier, to implement some of the ideas I suggested.

That's great! What's the problem here?

Hupailija wrote:
It depends what one wants. If one wants real mass effect and not just "it looks like mass effect" mod it's hard. Then again one reason why I keep opposing mods like this is because they really lack imagination. You are set to follow one story and can't really do changes. Also some aspects of story are hard to transfer.

Hang on a sec, no one is suggesting that we recreate Mass Effect. It's not even possible, the two are completely different genres. It's Endless Space set in the Mass Effect universe not 'Let's convert Endless Space to a RPG!'.

Hupa wrote:
Ok, I can't but think either ME1 or ME3 here, usually when I did use Massrelay I managed to get systems with 1-3 other systems. There were LOTS of massrelays.

Of course this could be explained by just pretending that Endless Space systems are really tiny part of whole galaxy. (wonder why you didn't use this card? It would make way more sense)

Mass Relays only go to a set number of other systems, they aren't insta-transport anywhere. I'm not even sure what your objection to this is.

In terms of setting it in a map I think you'd have greater interest in a map covering the whole of the ME galaxy. At this point it's hardly even proper planning so we may as well assume a wishlist.

Hupa wrote:
I oppose making premade stuff from other stories to games etc.

Good for you. However, you surely don't mean to imply that you're going to try and prevent or obstruct said development are you? I understand there's a Babylon 5 mod in a more advanced planning stage. I suggest you get to them quickly to sabotage their efforts before they get too far!

Hupa wrote:
Mass Effect does not have realistic space combat and if you put guns/missiles on ships it wouldn't look so flash so it wouldn't be so mass effect like.

Uhhh... wha?

Except that no, I'm fairly sure that you can't make tech which cuts off trait and give it to race which doesn't have trait. (well ok, I haven't tested this)

I'm only thinking out loud but it should be possible to have a tech give bonuses under certain conditions - we just restrict those conditions to the Krogan and make them inapplicable to anyone else. Problem solved? You wouldn't over-ride the base affinity (unless we can make the affinity bonus change if a tech or resource is found) you'd simply give large boosts to counter it.

Genophage itself is easy, it just quite easily breaks balance.

This is not an impediment to the mod. It just means that balance will be an issue and the Krogan thing will have to be handled delicately. The ME universe largely ignores its own math for most things anyway, so if we have to squeak the numbers to get it to play in the manner that feels correct then I seriously doubt anyone will complain.

Only reason why I keep opposing this mod so clearly is because I support it but am also alarmed that it might turn out to be something which just resembles series but isn't really anything like it

You're opposing the mod because you actually support it and you are worried that it might resemble the series but not really.

You know what? I have no reply to that.

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