The "Sea Peoples" are a controversial subject in historical circles; whether it be in regards to their influence, size, history, or even simply whether they existed. Therefore, my question revolves around whether they will make some form of an appearance within the game during the Brozne Era. I am not expecting an actual culture/faction/nation but whether there could be an easter egg like appearance or similar.

Along with this, I would like to hear what the community thinks about the "Sea Peoples" making an appearance, whether they actually do or do not appear.

I think will have the sea people, because the cilivization also having. Maybe that will become a DLC?

Perhaps the sea people can be added as an early game threat, with civilizations that manage to survive the odds gaining a short fame and cultural bonus, while civilizations that fall get a maulus to culture and fame(the mycaenean dark ages and the collapse of the hittite and assyrian states).

From a design standpoint it might be problematic... any historical event that essentially rebooted active civilizations might not work when playing a game like this, just because you wouldn't want to eliminate any players early on, or even give them a severe setback. It'd be easy to add a "increased barbarian activity" at the end of the bronze age to nod to the sea peoples, but the end result likely wouldn't be historically simulating. (would be nice flavor, though!)

That being said, do we know how exactly the player is going to pick their new civilization traits from age-to-age? Are there requirements for specific civilizations? Like... if there were "pheonix-style" civilizations that had traits that allowed a player to rapidly rebound from a setback, but the player could only select them if they were victim to a sea people attack (or whatever), that could be interesting. Could be useful for a lot of civs, actually.

strattactalk wrote:

Perhaps the sea people can be added as an early game threat, with civilizations that manage to survive the odds gaining a short fame and cultural bonus, while civilizations that fall get a maulus to culture and fame(the mycaenean dark ages and the collapse of the hittite and assyrian states).

I think this is the most plausiable scenario outside of a rather simple and small easter egg-like appearance.

While I know that whether we like it or not, Humankind will be compared to the Civ. series, I think it is important to hopefully differentiate between Humankind and other Civ.-like 4X historical strategy games. Humankind could create a path alongside the Civ. series to become the next inspiration for the 4X historical strategy genre akin to, but not limited by the influence of Civilization and Paradox games.

Just as Paradox has cemeted itself within the genre as an influential development team with entries like EU4, HOI4, CK2, and Stellaris, Amplitude has grown the Endless brand and is hopefully going to grow the Humankind brand to a similar level where fans of the genre can look to Amplitude as one of the leaders in pushing the genre forward and innovating concepts we thought finished or simply not possible or usable.

With this said, I will now proceed to compare the concept that you mentioned to the Civ series. Civ. has Barbarians that evolve some-what alongside you throughout the game and are usually a early to mid game threat. This is also alongside City-states which add more depth and interaction to the world besides those directly against other major factions. I think both are essential in Civ. for a complete experience that presents challenges and draws attention from just city-management and exploration and expansion.

You have said that the Sea Peoples could be an early game threat and I quite like that idea, I just wonder how such a thing could be implemented. In my personal opinion and take-away from what I've seen so far from Humankind, I believe that the developers will have a much closer eye on historical perspectives and interactions compared to Civ, more akin to those you would see in a Paradox title.

When I look at the Civ. series, I see a loose historical 4X strategy game. Yes, it uses real historical civilizations and has some historical flavor, but I believe the series has largely become more generalized as time has gone by and the historical aspect has seeped more into game mechanics and interactions rather than actual historical content perse. This is in no way wrong, and even as someone without game development experience, I understand that there is a thin line between balancing mechanics and adding concepts, flavor, and keeping with historical narrative and interactions. I am just hoping that as a fan of history, Humankind plays with historical concepts a little closer to the vest while also allowing players to create their own story, ahistorical or historical.

In essence, I would like to see a vast amount of historical content included but allow for the content to have various connections to 'my' story. For a loose example, say that Humankind does have some form of Barbarians, it would be cool if those in the Bronze Era are connected in some way to the concept of the Sea Peoples.

We have seen that a concept such as 'legacy traits' will allow for options leaving the Bronze Era that will stay with you throughout the game, it would be interesting to see a similar event at the end of the Brozne Era for connection to the Sea Peoples. As Jtakemann says below, it could come in the form of ''increased barbarian activity" or a similar concept. While I do like this connection, I would like it to be a little deeper but I understand his argument from a game design standpoint.

jtakemann wrote:

From a design standpoint it might be problematic... any historical event that essentially rebooted active civilizations might not work when playing a game like this, just because you wouldn't want to eliminate any players early on, or even give them a severe setback. It'd be easy to add a "increased barbarian activity" at the end of the bronze age to nod to the sea peoples, but the end result likely wouldn't be historically simulating. (would be nice flavor, though!)

That being said, do we know how exactly the player is going to pick their new civilization traits from age-to-age? Are there requirements for specific civilizations? Like... if there were "pheonix-style" civilizations that had traits that allowed a player to rapidly rebound from a setback, but the player could only select them if they were victim to a sea people attack (or whatever), that could be interesting. Could be useful for a lot of civs, actually.

I like where you are headed with the "increased barbarian activity" thought and I understand the game design standpoint here. I would still like to see a some-what deeper mention or interaction, possibly one or two 'notches' closer towards a historical perspective.

The second part of your post speaks much more to me in regards to this thought. I would think of it less as 'phoenix-style' civilizations but rather possibly a temporary de-buff or 'attack' for a chance at a buff in the next Era possibly.

From a game design perspective, I think a 'phoenix-style' civilization could be some-what problematic as a player with experience would likely always choose those civilizations as they provide the most obvious benefit, that is unless these civilizations have some other interactions that hinder them or their 'phoenix-style' replaces an aspect that other civilizations have. I do find your 'environmental' aspect where a player would actually have to face the attack interesting and would like to see these unique interactions in Humankind.

xiankai77 wrote:

I think will have the sea people, because the cilivization also having. Maybe that will become a DLC?

I don't think it would be a DLC as it is a rather small concept. If it was added in a DLC or patch, I think it would be a minor feature alongside a lot of other interactions that flesh out the experience.

jtakemann wrote:

If it's similar to Endless Legend, they're probably going to have a minor factions that get sucked into your empire based on quest-completion or conquest and bring their traits with them, which sounds pretty neat and I'm even more excited about this game now. hehe

If the "Sea People" are one of the minor factions, they could certainly have fun with it. Maybe they're a really strong faction that can tear you up if you settle too close, but they have a strong benefit if you assimilate. OR.... this would be cool... their diplomatic assimilation isn't fulfilling a quest, but you complete it by letting them burn your empire to the ground. That'd certainly tie more into history, and would be a very interesting strategy to play if you end up discovering that they live on your doorstep :)

That's something I wonder about. How similar will Humankind be to Endless Legend and the Endless series? This is obviously Amplitude's most ambitious game so far by their own account, therefore they are most likely taking many risks, drawing new conclusions, and coming up with new ideas and the like. I think the inclusion of minor factors similar to those in Endless Legend could work on some level, but I think it most likely work a tad bit differently given the historical aspect. What I mean is, how do you determine who is a 'minor' faction? How does that interaction work, given that this is a historical story with a progressive blending of culture?

I can some-what see a picture or drawing in my mind where the "Sea Peoples" are a minor faction of sorts, but if they are what constitutes a minor faction then I find it hard to create other similar minor factions. Here's what I'm thinking here: The "Sea Peoples" here are a group that does not have a 'set' culture or history that could be used as a minor faction because they seemingly disappear and do not re-appear as an influential people later in history. This makes them a good candidate for a 'minor' faction.

As a counter-example, say we look at Poland. Poland has a history of existing and not existing perse as a state but have a lasting cultural identity. If we place Poland or a Polish peoples group as a minor faction in an earlier era, but then they become a major faction in a later era, how does that interaction work? I guess what I am trying to say is: How do we determine who are the 'minor' factions in this case? Poland is seemingly minor at some points in history, but have a deep historical impact at other points; while the "Sea Peoples" are the perfect candidate for an Era-specific minor faction as they seemingly disappear from history after said Era. I think it would be difficult to find many other similar examples of such cases throughout the Eras of History.

Nevertheless, I look forward to how Amplitude decides to fill the world and create deeper immersion and various complex events that interact with 'our' story; also thank you for your opinion!