Hey there, I noticed there is no mention for one ancient civilization that exists to this day, the Judeans/Hebrews/Israelites. It seems logic that the culture who is the root of the 3 major monotheistic religions, and builders of Jerusalem, will be in a game about human history
I mean, I can absolutely see them maybe avoiding that civilization... Maybe because it can result in some... ehem, unfortunate responses from certain people. I am not saying they will, I am just saying I absolutely understan if they avoid them.
Other than the fact that their religion happened to be the first to offer a good afterlife for anyone who has faith, they weren't all that influential of a culture. They were barely organized past a city-state level.
True that they weren't influencial as other cultures, but still, they had great leaders (Moses, King David and King Solomon to name a few) and they were at war with almost all of the other civs in the game. And again, don't forget the religious influence. I understand what you say about people reacting bad to Israel, but politics doesn't belong in video games, people's can't change or ignore history just because they don't like it
Eulogos wrote: Other than the fact that their religion happened to be the first to offer a good afterlife for anyone who has faith, they weren't all that influential of a culture. They were barely organized past a city-state level.
There are a lot of civilization in the game who had even less influence, some of them people never heard of :)
What would be the unique unit? The unique quarter?
Even if these exist, Israel is more worth of a minor civilization role. The features that make this culture unique do not exist in this game, namely racial and religious cohesion over millenia, the effect of the diaspora, connection to a specific location on the planet. Once we see dev blogs covering religion and population events like refugees, then maybe Israel should be considered.
What would be the unique unit? The unique quarter?
Even if these exist, Israel is more worth of a minor civilization role. The features that make this culture unique do not exist in this game, namely racial and religious cohesion over millenia, the effect of the diaspora, connection to a specific location on the planet. Once we see dev blogs covering religion and population events like refugees, then maybe Israel should be considered.
Early unique unit can be the Maccabi or for modern times the Merkava :) quarter can be something religious or high-tech (they are called tgetstart-up nation)
Eulogos wrote: Other than the fact that their religion happened to be the first to offer a good afterlife for anyone who has faith, they weren't all that influential of a culture. They were barely organized past a city-state level.
There are a lot of civilization in the game who had even less influence, some of them people never heard of :)
I would recommend watching this summary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k90G9bHyk_w&feature=youtu.be) if you are not familiar with the Bronze Age cultures revealed in Humankind.
I have to agree that if the Israeli/Hebrews were to be included, it would be in as a minor, only with small potential for a Modern era reveal. They definately are a long lasting culture/people, with many unfortunate circumstances, but besides the religious influence, they are overshadowed by other cultures. There are so many mechanics and gameplay we have not seen yet, for all we know they could be included in events or in some other way in the early game, but other than that you will probably have to see what sort of Modern Era cultures they pick. They have historians and experts give them the information they need to make decisions, but worst case scenario is that there could be expansions and/or mods.
@Zypher14@roseofsharon Yea you guys have a point, I just wish a game would implement them as playable civ, in civilization 5 and 6, other people made mods to play them
What is the exact point of listing all those? Although each group might be unique to an anthropologist, they can probably all be represented by one culture in HumanKind. Perhaps you should create a scenario mod with the ancient palestinian cultures.
I believe that if they used the name Canaanites instead of Phoenicians, then the Philistines, Israelites and the others can all be considered included in the game under the Canaanite umbrella name. But for some reason Phoenicians it seems to be more related to the ancient city states from todays lebanon and not to much to their neighbors.
The thing is that for most of their history, including in the antiquity, the hebrews were part of other spheres of influence. Some people are now trying to rewrite their history so they look like a very independant power that barely evolved through time (sadly eradicating centuries of jewish culture in the process, including all the languages spoken by the jews and their associated literature), but the truth is that they are the result of a constant mixing of influences, because they were right in the middle of the major powers of their time. Their sacred texts are a testimony for this. That's also the case for their religions. There's nothing really unique about them, except the way that it mixes everything together, as well as their incredible propensity to change through time and evolve in myriads of sub-sects. Their myths are borrowed from neighbours, their religious practices evolved either in accordance or in opposition with those of their neighbours.
But really it's an issue with how this kind of game is designed. Civilizations get isolated from their context, and they are considered as some kinds of noospheric entities that can just pop anywhere on an Earth-like planet.
I don't know what would be the correct solution and I don't have any strong opinions about whether this people should be in the game or not. I just want to observe that it's not very easy to add a faction who's mostly reknown for its interactions with other cultures without removing precisely what makes them interesting in real history (honestly, some of my best days in studying philology were trying to understand what historical figures they are referring to when talking about satanic lions and vicious snakes...).
They are probably better suited for some kind of minor faction as a result? It would be nice if minor factions could appear dynamically between major factions, and it would suit the Hebrews quite well.
Early Modern Era, Industrial Era, and Contemporary Era have not had any cultures announced. If Ottoman does get in, it will be an Industrial Era culture. They announce one culture per week which means they will announced Industrial cultures (and potentially Ottomans) 15-25 weeks from now, and will have announced the last culture 35 weeks from now (February 2021) at the current rate. Since the game is scheduled to come out this year, I expect that means they increase the speed that they announced them or announce them all soon.
But really it's an issue with how this kind of game is designed. Civilizations get isolated from their context, and they are considered as some kinds of noospheric entities that can just pop anywhere on an Earth-like planet.
This is an excellent point, and I think it is the case that game design and sale numbers outweigh a more realistic approach.
ES2 politics has some element where laws and techs can affect the population, but it never significantly impacted my games.
The Civ4 mod Caveman to Cosmos did have some element where your civ was a blank-slate name, but having certain resources/buildings/units would grant a culture. For example, I think having an "Apples" resource and a bowman would let you be English, enabling the Longbow unit.
These aren't very satisfying compared to reality, but I would agree that it's also awkward to see cultures without context.
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