What's the point for them exactly? I mean other than Angkor Wat wonder that gives you food per faith, is there any reason to have faith after the early game? Usually I unlock all my tenets in the early game, it doesn't take a lot of pops to unlock all tenets and after you do I guess if you go the hostility route you can use faith to gain grievances but that seems a bit pointless imho, and if you went with the tolerance then there's not really any reason to spread your faith outside your own borders?

What's the use of faith after you have every tenet? Like, especially in the last era with India for example, yeah that gives a metric TON of faith, but why would you want a metric ton of faith? You get 0 benefit from it?

To compete with other Faiths.

To push your religion into other civs and get grievances against them.

Lots of Tenets give faith based on the number of people who follow your faith -- even if those people are in another culture/civ. So the further you spread your faith -- even in the late game -- the more benefits you get.

FaeBriona wrote:

Lots of Tenets give faith based on the number of people who follow your faith -- even if those people are in another culture/civ. So the further you spread your faith -- even in the late game -- the more benefits you get.

Actually none of The tenets do.

The Teuton Legacy Trait gives a benefit for followers of your faith

The Aksumite Emblematic Quarter gives a benefit for Territories of your religion

Stonehenge gives benefits for Empires that follow your religion

but that's it no religion gets benefits for additional followers

VDmitry wrote:

To compete with other Faiths.

Yeah but why? Once you unlock all your tenets who cares? Besides other than the holy sites you get anyways, you don't really need any more faith to maintain yours in your own empire.

Krikkitone wrote:

To push your religion into other civs and get grievances against them.

Yeah but that's only if you pick Religious hostility and want to go to war. + you can get grievances in much easier ways honestly.

FaeBriona wrote:

Lots of Tenets give faith based on the number of people who follow your faith -- even if those people are in another culture/civ. So the further you spread your faith -- even in the late game -- the more benefits you get.

Yeah no they don't. That's my point mate. They literally don't give any bonuses.

Krikkitone wrote:

FaeBriona wrote:

Lots of Tenets give faith based on the number of people who follow your faith -- even if those people are in another culture/civ. So the further you spread your faith -- even in the late game -- the more benefits you get.

Actually none of The tenets do.

The Teuton Legacy Trait gives a benefit for followers of your faith

The Aksumite Emblematic Quarter gives a benefit for Territories of your religion

Stonehenge gives benefits for Empires that follow your religion

but that's it no religion gets benefits for additional followers

Also Angkor Wat, but yeah that's basically it.

I guess if you pick Religious Tolerance you get influence by spreading your religion, but it feels so unnecessary, I mean you really don't need a lot of faith to spread your religion everywhere, so an entire late-game culture having their emblematic district just give faith seems underwhelming.

StorytellerDave wrote:

VDmitry wrote:

To compete with other Faiths.

Yeah but why? Once you unlock all your tenets who cares? Besides other than the holy sites you get anyways, you don't really need any more faith to maintain yours in your own empire.

This is more interesting question. Did you ever loose battle for religion? I did. When it happens enemies can get lot of grievances against me. That's creating high risks.

Another possible point (but I'm not 100% certain) that you can loose all followers and probaly all tenant effects this way.

So it's ongoing battle from start to end, while tenants is just some additional bonuses.

Krikkitone wrote:

To push your religion into other civs and get grievances against them.

Yeah but that's only if you pick Religious hostility and want to go to war. + you can get grievances in much easier ways honestly.

Which ways are easier?

Yeah no they don't. That's my point mate. They literally don't give any bonuses.

At very least there are civics which depend on number of converted territories. I don't have the list of all such possibilities.

From a purely RP point of view, the worshiping of the Virtual Endless must never stop. Because through their grace, we were elavated, and so on. (See Endless Space 2 ; The Vodyani)

More serioulsy, it's a way to avoid having grieviances on you, to get some on other, and to top up your tenets with the not so good that are left by that point.

So yeah, no that good, but you can find yourself in situations where they come in handy. Context is everything.

VDmitry wrote:

StorytellerDave wrote:

VDmitry wrote:

To compete with other Faiths.

Yeah but why? Once you unlock all your tenets who cares? Besides other than the holy sites you get anyways, you don't really need any more faith to maintain yours in your own empire.

This is more interesting question. Did you ever loose battle for religion? I did. When it happens enemies can get lot of grievances against me. That's creating high risks.

Another possible point (but I'm not 100% certain) that you can loose all followers and probaly all tenant effects this way.

So it's ongoing battle from start to end, while tenants is just some additional bonuses.

That'd be great if only your basic holy sites weren't enough to keep any foreign religions at bay and then some. You literally don't need more faith than what holy sites give.

VDmitry wrote:

Krikkitone wrote:

To push your religion into other civs and get grievances against them.

Yeah but that's only if you pick Religious hostility and want to go to war. + you can get grievances in much easier ways honestly.

Which ways are easier?

You can literally just propose a share map treaty that you know they'll refuse and get a free grievance that way even in scenarios where culture and faith cannot reach the enemy AI player. I had a case of an AI entirely locking down with that no foreign influence in my territory civic and the way I got through was with this trick. It technically works with any other treaty but I prefer using shared map because the AI rarely accepts it before other treaties are signed.

Aeram wrote:

From a purely RP point of view, the worshiping of the Virtual Endless must never stop. Because through their grace, we were elavated, and so on. (See Endless Space 2 ; The Vodyani)

More serioulsy, it's a way to avoid having grieviances on you, to get some on other, and to top up your tenets with the not so good that are left by that point.

So yeah, no that good, but you can find yourself in situations where they come in handy. Context is everything.

At what point do you ever choose tenets in the 6th era? And again, the base holy sites you get are more than enough to keep your religion entirely stable in your empire. I guess if you trade a lot things can be more difficult, but I'd rather pick wonder with faith as a side-bonus than an entire culture dedicated to faith at a point in the game where faith has long since become obsolete.

That'd be great if only your basic holy sites weren't enough to keep any foreign religions at bay and then some. You literally don't need more faith than what holy sites give.

This is not my experience. You can really loose all even after reaching last 4th tenant. One game I went to Atheism because of this.

VDmitry wrote:

That'd be great if only your basic holy sites weren't enough to keep any foreign religions at bay and then some. You literally don't need more faith than what holy sites give.

This is not my experience. You can really loose all even after reaching last 4th tenant. One game I went to Atheism because of this.

In like 10 runs I never had this issue ever.

StorytellerDave wrote:

VDmitry wrote:

That'd be great if only your basic holy sites weren't enough to keep any foreign religions at bay and then some. You literally don't need more faith than what holy sites give.

This is not my experience. You can really loose all even after reaching last 4th tenant. One game I went to Atheism because of this.

In like 10 runs I never had this issue ever.

What difficulty level do you play? Do you try multiplayer?

VDmitry wrote:

StorytellerDave wrote:

VDmitry wrote:

That'd be great if only your basic holy sites weren't enough to keep any foreign religions at bay and then some. You literally don't need more faith than what holy sites give.

This is not my experience. You can really loose all even after reaching last 4th tenant. One game I went to Atheism because of this.

In like 10 runs I never had this issue ever.

What difficulty level do you play? Do you try multiplayer?

No MP, I play Empire usually, but my experience might be a bit odd because I do challenge runs usually. Having specific map settings and goals in mind like 1 city challenge or all ransack or no industry districts, etc...

The most comparable is obviously Influence. It has similar impact (including territory grievances), but indeed very useful through the whole game. Faith is probably not that useful if we compare these two. In that regard this could be a problem. But still Faith is useful late game, at least to some degree.

VDmitry wrote:

The most comparable is obviously Influence. It has similar impact (including territory grievances), but indeed very useful through the whole game. Faith is probably not that useful if we compare these two. In that regard this could be a problem. But still Faith is useful late game, at least to some degree.

Honestly that actually would make an incredible comparison. If you could accumulate faith same as influence and spend it on civics or attaching territories it'd be a million times more useful.