Logo Platform
logo amplifiers simplified

Bantu cities

Reply
Copied to clipboard!
3 years ago
Jan 30, 2022, 3:40:36 PM

Does anyone know where the Bantu City names come from, I’m working on a map of all the cities

0Send private message
0Send private message0Send private message
3 years ago
Jan 31, 2022, 2:51:53 AM

Sorry. I thought you might be looking for city names. You weren't real specific. If you're instead looking for specific locations on a map, I'll see if I can find a resource.

0Send private message
0Send private message
3 years ago
Jan 31, 2022, 5:10:37 AM
Ryansinbela wrote:

Yes I meant the locations. When I type the names I get unrelated stuff

I think the main problem is one of timeline. In the game, the Bantu are barely post-Neolithic. But if you look at Bantu peoples in Africa, they span from a homeland in Nigeria and spread out across the breadth of the continent and down to modern day South Africa. If you're trying to place their "cities" (villages?) back at 10,000 BCE even up to about 2,000 BCE, it might not be possible. I've found a few maps which show the Bantu migrations, but no cities or even settlements are delineated. The first civ I found was Nok, about 1000 BCE to about 200 CE.

0Send private message
3 years ago
Jan 31, 2022, 3:10:39 PM
Ryansinbela wrote:

Does anyone know where the Bantu City names come from, I’m working on a map of all the cities

Hey Ryan, I might be able to give you info on this subject.

As Grathocke explained, the first Bantus as represented in the game are mostly known from scientists through linguistic and genetic studies and not from archaeological data or written sources. No archaeological site has yet been found related to this culture and at this time and as far as we know there are no proofs and few chances that they were an "urban" culture like understood for the Mesopotamian cultures represented in era 1.

 

When facing a case like that in the culture design and given that we must provide a certain number of cities that can be built for each culture we usually operate trying to stay the more historically accurate in our suggestions. For the Bantus, we used several proto-bantu (the oldest common denominator of the nowadays spoke Bantu language) names related to the habitat like the one standing for the house, the dwelling, the village and so on.

 

So no, you will not find them anywhere on a map or an archaeological paper, but feel free to place them somewhere between the Cameroon grasslands, the Congo basin, or the Great Lakes ;)

Have a great day ;)

  

0Send private message
0Send private message0Send private message0Send private message0Send private message
3 years ago
Feb 1, 2022, 7:06:21 PM

After wading through proto-Bantu word lists, I believe basically all of them essentially mean "village," with some variation/exception:


Mucenge (Mucèngè) - "village plaza, capital"; "main village"

Mucúmbà - "chief's village"

Dipáta (Lipátà) - "tract of land pertaining to village or a ward in the village"

Mucé (Kicì, Kicé?; Ncì, Ncé) - not as certain of this but, I think it's "ground"; "country," although I've seen the word more as -ci/-cì rather than -cé (and also a different class)

Ngándá (Ngàndá) - "village"; "house, chief's enclosure"

Mungì - "village"

Dijádi (Lijàdí) - "village"

Gumbo (Ligumbo) - "house, village" (this one is lacking a class prefix, I've seen some mention of it being Class 5, hence Ligumbo)
Mucókó - "village"

Budá (Vudá) - "village"


Updated 3 years ago.
0Send private message
3 years ago
Feb 1, 2022, 8:25:03 PM

It is a very elegant solution, I like it.
And @SeelingCat thanks, I don't need to go looking for it myself.

0Send private message
0Send private message
3 years ago
Feb 3, 2022, 1:41:24 AM

Realized I could probably also do the Emblematic ones, just for anyone who is curious:


Mupíà Fields - (more correctly, Lupíà or Bupíà/Vupíà since -píà appears to be class 11 or 14) means "burnt grass"

Bagèndí Pioneers - (technically Bagèndì/Vagèndì) means "walkers, travellers," singular form would be Mugèndì

0Send private message
3 years ago
Feb 7, 2022, 10:33:31 AM
SeelingCat wrote:

After wading through proto-Bantu word lists, I believe basically all of them essentially mean "village," with some variation/exception:


Mucenge (Mucèngè) - "village plaza, capital"; "main village"

Mucúmbà - "chief's village"

Dipáta (Lipátà) - "tract of land pertaining to village or a ward in the village"

Mucé (Kicì, Kicé?; Ncì, Ncé) - not as certain of this but, I think it's "ground"; "country," although I've seen the word more as -ci/-cì rather than -cé (and also a different class)

Ngándá (Ngàndá) - "village"; "house, chief's enclosure"

Mungì - "village"

Dijádi (Lijàdí) - "village"

Gumbo (Ligumbo) - "house, village" (this one is lacking a class prefix, I've seen some mention of it being Class 5, hence Ligumbo)
Mucókó - "village"

Budá (Vudá) - "village"


Hey SeelingCat, thanks a lot for completing my first answer, I confirm your info, they are exact!

And same for the emblematics (quarter and unit)!

Are you studying proto-bantu linguistics by any chance or did you just happen to be a Bantu enthusiast who knows how to research info?


Cheers ;)


And by the way who's up for a "How to cast Maasai city names" challenge haha ?

0Send private message
3 years ago
Feb 7, 2022, 6:58:20 PM

Just someone with an interest in linguistics and historical place names (and a knack for research)! :D


For the Maasai (with modern placenames - hopefully helpful for Ryansinbela's map!):

Enkare NanyokieNanyuki"red water"; 'water' + 'red'
Enchorro EmunyNgong"pool of the rhino"; 'spring of water; well from which sand must be scooped regularly' + 'rhinoceros'
KiserrianKiserian, also known as Githiria"a peaceful place"; related to the word for 'to be safe'
Ongata BarrikoiOngata Barrikoi, Narok County"light brown-yellow plain"; 'plain' + 'tan, beige'
Nairragie(-Enkare)Nairagia Engare"place where the water lies; marshy area"; related to the words for 'sleeping place' and 'to lie down' (+ 'water')
Ole NkijapeKijabe"place of the cold wind"; singular masculine marker + 'coldness; wind, breeze; weather'
Narok-ilmoruNaro Moru"place of black stones"; 'black' + 'hard stone, hard rock'
NaiurruurNyahururueither an onomatopoeic word for the sound of the waterfall, or the word of 'waterfall' itself (or both!)
IlmorogLimuru'Dovyalis abyssinica,' the Abyssinian Gooseberry' (plural form)
EmbuselAmboseli (Lake Amboseli specifically)"salty kind of dust found at the bottom of a [dry?] lake"; "salty substance for livestock"; "salty, dusty place"; related to 'em-boliei, "salt-lick"?


And just for fun:
Enkang means "location where one's people and cattle are established; home, homestead"
Moran (il-murran, sing. ol-murrani) means "warriors"
Updated 3 years ago.
0Send private message
3 years ago
Feb 8, 2022, 9:07:55 AM
SeelingCat wrote:

Just someone with an interest in linguistics and historical place names (and a knack for research)! :D


For the Maasai (with modern placenames - hopefully helpful for Ryansinbela's map!):

Enkare NanyokieNanyuki"red water"; 'water' + 'red'
Enchorro EmunyNgong"pool of the rhino"; 'spring of water; well from which sand must be scooped regularly' + 'rhinoceros'
KiserrianKiserian, also known as Githiria"a peaceful place"; related to the word for 'to be safe'
Ongata BarrikoiOngata Barrikoi, Narok County"light brown-yellow plain"; 'plain' + 'tan, beige'
Nairragie(-Enkare)Nairagia Engare"place where the water lies; marshy area"; related to the words for 'sleeping place' and 'to lie down' (+ 'water')
Ole NkijapeKijabe"place of the cold wind"; singular masculine marker + 'coldness; wind, breeze; weather'
Narok-ilmoruNaro Moru"place of black stones"; 'black' + 'hard stone, hard rock'
NaiurruurNyahururueither an onomatopoeic word for the sound of the waterfall, or the word of 'waterfall' itself (or both!)
IlmorogLimuru'Dovyalis abyssinica,' the Abyssinian Gooseberry' (plural form)
EmbuselAmboseli (Lake Amboseli specifically)"salty kind of dust found at the bottom of a [dry?] lake"; "salty substance for livestock"; "salty, dusty place"; related to 'em-boliei, "salt-lick"?


And just for fun:
Enkang means "location where one's people and cattle are established; home, homestead"
Moran (il-murran, sing. ol-murrani) means "warriors"

Hahaha, it's all right again! I'm glad actually that someone like you took the time to wonder why these place names were selected. Place names are one of the things we put a lot of work in (there are almost 6000 different city names in the game), even if it’s not noticed most of the time.


For the Maasai there was a double challenge (like for the bantu) because it’s a people without any written sources for the concerned era (early modern) and it’s, once again, a “non-urban” culture. 


In this case I precisely searched for toponyms because, you probably know this fact, toponyms are in most of the case the most ancient linguistic marker of a territory (that’s why a place name is so political, it tends to be stable in time). For instance, in France, rivers, mountains, dwellings still ware celtic names etc. For the Maasai, toponyms were both a great way to find “historical names” AND it was a great marker of their way of life (you see and name the land for what possibility it offers you)


I’ll have to check myself to be sure, but, in your opinion, what’s the most represented city in the base game (among all eras and cultures) ?


Cheers, have a great day !


Updated 3 years ago.
0Send private message
3 years ago
Feb 8, 2022, 12:17:15 PM

@FestinaLente while I don‘t know the most represented city in the base game, I think generally places that are represented multiple times have different names each time. But Beijing is the first city for Ming and China with exactly the same name, which is a bit confusing.

0Send private message
3 years ago
Feb 8, 2022, 10:59:09 PM

By my rough estimations, it looks to be a tie between six cities, each with 3 appearances:


Beijing - Ming, Chinese, and Mongol Khanbaliq if you have a really weird game

Brescia - Celtic Brixia, Italian Brescia, and Venetian Bresa

Cairo - Ottoman, Modern Egyptian, Umayyad Fustat

Istanbul - Byzantine Konstantinoupolis, Ottoman Kostantiniyye, and Turkish Istanbul

London - Roman Londinium, English Londonia, British London

Ravenna - Romans, Venetians, and the Independent Ostrogothic faction


I might be tempted to give Cairo the win overall, as Heliopolis (Iunu), Giza, and Memphis (all of which are city names in the game) are within Greater Cairo today.


And for completeness sake, cities that appear on two different lists:

Ahmadabad, Aleppo, Ankara (if Hanikku = Ankuwa = Ankara, but the location is not certain), Asyut (Zawty)Avaris (Hut-waret)Babylon, Bourges (Avaricon, Bituriga)Bristol, Budapest, Bursa, Cadiz/Gadir, Canterbury, Chengdu, Clermont-Ferrand (Nemossos, Arverna), Cordoba, Damascus, Delhi (Shahjahanpur), Erbil (Arbaira/Arbaila)Frankfurt, Guangzhou, Hamedan/Hagmatana, Hangzhou, Hyderabad, Kazan, Koln, Krakow (Carrodunon), Kyiv, Lund, Lyon, Mexico City/Tenochititlan, Milan, Moscow, Narbonne, Norwich, Osaka, Padua, Palermo (Ziz), Reims (Durocorteron, Remus), Rome, Saint Petersburg (Leningrad), Seville, Sirmium, Strasbourg, Susa, Ray/Tehran (if generous), Thessalonica, Tokyo (Edo), Toledo, Toulouse, Trabzon, Uppsala, York

Updated 3 years ago.
0Send private message
?

Click here to login

Reply
Comment