Casworon wrote:

Oh wow. Narritive quests are in the game! I didn't even know. But that sounds amazing

They're events, not quests.

EaglePursuit wrote:

They just did a panel on narrative events including some examples from HK.

Events are gated by era, but some options are only available to certain civs.

Is there an overarching game quest? Something like this:

Introduction: "You are a puny normadic tribe struggling for survival. Build a civilization that might stand the test of time!"

Quest 1: "You are a little normadic tribe. Survive the harsh conditions of the land!"

Quest 2: "Our sages recently developed agriculture. Settle down and build a great city!"

...

Quest X: "Our scientists have developed means to travel to the stars! Can we be the first civilization to settle another planet?"

Arent11 wrote:

EaglePursuit wrote:

They just did a panel on narrative events including some examples from HK.

Events are gated by era, but some options are only available to certain civs.

Is there an overarching game quest? Something like this:

Introduction: "You are a puny normadic tribe struggling for survival. Build a civilization that might stand the test of time!"

Quest 1: "You are a little normadic tribe. Survive the harsh conditions of the land!"

Quest 2: "Our sages recently developed agriculture. Settle down and build a great city!"

...

Quest X: "Our scientists have developed means to travel to the stars! Can we be the first civilization to settle another planet?"

Not that we know of.

twimpix wrote:

Arent11 wrote:

EaglePursuit wrote:

They just did a panel on narrative events including some examples from HK.

Events are gated by era, but some options are only available to certain civs.

Is there an overarching game quest? Something like this:

Introduction: "You are a puny normadic tribe struggling for survival. Build a civilization that might stand the test of time!"

Quest 1: "You are a little normadic tribe. Survive the harsh conditions of the land!"

Quest 2: "Our sages recently developed agriculture. Settle down and build a great city!"

...

Quest X: "Our scientists have developed means to travel to the stars! Can we be the first civilization to settle another planet?"

Not that we know of.

Given what we've been told about the Fame system and how it will determine end game victory, I'd go as far as to say "no".

Arent11 wrote:

A lineage of people whose cultural identity evolved over time is a nation.

But I'm talking about the motivation of people to play a civ they identify with. I did not intent to discuss politics or ideological views.

That's not at all what a nation is. The Latin people of the Roman Empire shared a cultural identity. That identity evolved into the nations of Italy, France, and Spain. Nations and cultures have nothing to do with each other. Nations are administrative definitions, not cultural ones.

Loveblanket wrote:

Arent11 wrote:

A lineage of people whose cultural identity evolved over time is a nation.

But I'm talking about the motivation of people to play a civ they identify with. I did not intent to discuss politics or ideological views.

That's not at all what a nation is. The Latin people of the Roman Empire shared a cultural identity. That identity evolved into the nations of Italy, France, and Spain. Nations and cultures have nothing to do with each other. Nations are administrative definitions, not cultural ones.

This thread is about RPG elements in strategy games. Please open another thread to discuss the definition of nations.

To make it short: A nation in the original sense of the latin word is an ethnic group. However, one might argue that ethnic groups partially also define themselves not only by ancestry but also by customs and laws.

Arent11 wrote:

Loveblanket wrote:

Arent11 wrote:

A lineage of people whose cultural identity evolved over time is a nation.

But I'm talking about the motivation of people to play a civ they identify with. I did not intent to discuss politics or ideological views.

That's not at all what a nation is. The Latin people of the Roman Empire shared a cultural identity. That identity evolved into the nations of Italy, France, and Spain. Nations and cultures have nothing to do with each other. Nations are administrative definitions, not cultural ones.

This thread is about RPG elements in strategy games. Please open another thread to discuss the definition of nations.

To make it short: A nation in the original sense of the latin word is an ethnic group. However, one might argue that ethnic groups partially also define themselves not only by ancestry but also by customs and laws.

Customs and laws is more true than ancestry. Most people who consider themselves English are more genetically similar to the Celtic  neighbors than the Anglo-Saxons that gave birth to the English identity. 

The idea that the A-Ss displaced the Britons has been disproven by genetic study. The A-S invaders seem to have established themselves as the ruling caste and culturally assimilated the Britons. The genetic controbutions of Anglo-Saxons, Danes, Norse, and Normans to the modern population is smaller than the controbution from the original Celtic Britons.

Therefore, a case could be made that the preponderance of people in England (over time) started as Celts, adopted a Roman identity,  then an Anglo-Saxon identity,  before partially assimilating Norman identity, and kludging it together into what is now considered English.

From a pure RPG perspective, the "I am Napoleon and I'm going to lead the French to world dominance" is simple and appears to be what a percentage of 4x players seem to want.

Personally, I'm glad that HK is going to offer a different experience.  But I fully understand why the HK's approach to civ-switches on era changes will not work for those players.  

No amount of justifcation for the system or explanation of why it's realistic is going to help people who want a different experience.  Although maybe if the overall game is good enough, those players will find they're able to enjoy HK while playing it with a different mindset than they bring to Civ.

EaglePursuit wrote:

Therefore, a case could be made that the preponderance of people in England (over time) started as Celts, adopted a Roman identity,  then an Anglo-Saxon identity,  before partially assimilating Norman identity, and kludging it together into what is now considered English.

That's what I would more or less subscribe to.

This is also why I am ok with defining broad "civilizations" (in the actual sense of the word) as western, eastern, african, middle eastern etc. and wouldn't be completely opposed to my chinese morphing into koreans and then japanese. However, the chinese and japanese might strongly oppose a game that basically throws them together, despite being historically not entirely wrong.