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Multiregional Natural Wonders

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5 years ago
Jun 20, 2020, 8:09:09 PM

Okay, this idea came from a discussion of Discord of HK and basically it is what the title of this thread implies, would it be possible to have Natural Wonders so large that they can be in multiple regions, or else have a Wonder that extends throughout an entire region?

Obviously in technical terms, it depends on the scale of the game map size and how the game's topography engine works; but what will be the benefits in terms of gamplay of such great Natural Wonders?

With the recent previews of the pre-alpha released on the internet, a little of the vision of gameplays from Natural Wonders was shown, where the 1st player who finds out she gains a burst of fame and whoever concretizes the region where she is can reap the bonuses her. Since this is very much linked to the region, how could it work with the Wonder spreading in several regions? One proposal would be for the player to earn only a bonus part for controlling a region in which part of the Wonder is located, increasing bonuses with each extra region until "completing" Wonder.

Owning such a Wonder in its entirety can generate a great deal of fame for the owner, and having such a structure on the map can generate an interesting amount of territorial turf among local players.

Now it is possible to ask how many "Mega-Wonders" there are to say that it would be a viable feature. Well, many. In general several of the Natural Wonders are said to be wonders precisely for their colossal sizes, it is common to classify in games of 4X mountains like Everest, Fuji, or Sinai as Wonders of 1 tile, however we have Wonders like Lake Baikal which is bigger in area than Belgium for example. Among the wonders that could fit into this beyond Lake Baikal can be: the Great Barrier Reef, the Pantanal, the Okavango Delta, Cappadocia, Chapada Diamantina, Galapagos Isles and Rub 'al Khali Basin.

Leaving aside the technical issues for now, do you guys believe that such a feature would add to the game or would it be an exaggerated thing for the game's proposal?


Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Jun 20, 2020, 8:40:50 PM

I agree with this idea ! Lots of interesting Natural Wonder could be derived from this idea and ultimately it would give some other objective than "I want more territory" to a player to incite a war ! 

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5 years ago
Jun 20, 2020, 9:00:50 PM

I would prefer to see more information about wonders and regions before supporting this proposal.


I can understand multi-tile natural wonders, having a region-wide wonder seems troublesome to design and test.

Based on the gameplay reveal, I am happy with the bonuses provided by natural wonders so far. I would like to see an improvement of the "National Park" mechanic from Civ6, to give players more control over the shape and size of natural preserves.

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5 years ago
Jun 20, 2020, 9:31:48 PM

While the idea is interesting, I agree with Aye_Avast, we've been shown only a little fraction of the gameplay.


As you said Rac98, we have no idea of the scale of the map right now, having a Natural Wonder spanning on more than 4 tiles (like the biggest ones on Civ6) could be a "waist" of usable land for the player (either human or AI).


Plus, given what we could see in the gameplay regarding the Natural Wonders bonuses, I'd say that if you had to "share" the bonuses with someone else, that would be a fraction quite small that it wouldn't be interesting. I guess the only viable choice would be to claim the entire territory before your neighbour or declare war on your neighbour to control the territory and get the Natural Wonder bonuses.

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5 years ago
Jun 20, 2020, 9:56:11 PM

My two cents :


The Everest on the gameplay shown by Amplitude is integrated in a large area of mountain even if Everest ( and every natural wonder ) should take two or more hexagonal cases, to ensure  better realisty ingame. I like Vesuvius mount, deep blue hole  and yellostone or Vinicunca. 


After wrote that, i do equally agree and disagree with the idea of multi regional natural wonders. I just did not understood the benefits/problematic for the player of having natural wonder share with more than 1 region, i don't want to compete and make war for a natural wonder. But if a natural wonder exist on the region i want to occupy, that's enough for me.


I agree great barier should be 5 or 6 cases for exemple and obviously i will send my fisher boat on that cases. Usually, large natural wonders should be exploitable ( okavango for ex ).

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Jun 21, 2020, 6:16:48 PM

While I agree we should see more of how the map works to tell for sure there is still some points I disagree on.

Sure a wonder could become a "waste of space" for players but that depend on gameplay and in the end a good 4x is based on choices that provide you both advantages and disadvantages ! Giving player the opportunity of having Natural Wonders without having to give anything in exchange is for me a really bad choice, it cleave the game between those that are lucky enough to have a good Natural Wonder and those that doesn't. Even if this idea is scrapped and Wonders end up spanning only one region I think the dev shouldn't shy away from pushing player to make a meaningful choice like sacrificing some food or industry to gain some influence thanks to the Wonder !
Beside Humankind is the perfect type of game for this mechanic, sure you could argue that if you spawn in a region where one Wonder take a big chunk of the region you can't play "Tall" and exploit this region to it's full extent, and to that I'd say, well yes, but Humankind is a game about adapting, if you spawn in this type of region just play Aesthete or whatever might synergise well with the Wonder, if you don't like it, reset your map. Humankind is not meant to be the classical 4x game where you have one type of victory in mind as soon as you launch your game, it's the type fo game where you can just make thing up as you go ! 

As for the Wonder exploitation, I think multi-regional wonder shouldn't give bonuses until you control every regions they are a part of, that would give an incentive to take control of those regions. Also the idea that could "work" these Wonder is cool even tho I think it should take maybe a different approach, if we get the German Black Forest for example it would not make sense to exploit it with lumber mill, same can be said for a lot of other Wonders. Therefore a type of exploitation you could have coul be tourism spot or something alike. That being said, ideally those Wonder would have bonuses making them good enough without being exploited

Conclusion : I agree that we should wait and see for now, we're still not sure how the map generation and the Wonders work exactly and we can always add this feature after the base game. That being said I'm very much in favor of adding some opportunities for Aesthete player to gear toward some form of warfare. 

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