Sounds like some crazy Europa/Crusader Kings type shenanigans and is certainly intriguing, but I am skeptical about ease of implementation into this type of game. Seems like it would result in unnecessarily janky gameplay that removes from the game itself but on the other hand, interesting and unique ideas like these could be how 4x games maintain engaging late-game gameplay.

Remember me a good 4X by the creator of civ 4 : Offworld Trading Company. A 4X only about economic wars^^

It's an interesting idea to say the least. I hope that there are complex mechanics for money including debt and inflation, rather than just an accumulating number that makes buildings instantly.

The problem is that such a field does not fit well with the current trend of the game. The current trend is to focus on the cultural aspects of each "culture," and the financial element mentioned will likely be both too complex and too specific to be a good addition. Furthermore, the mechanics around money would need to be adjusted to have bonds and other financial instruments. Perhaps propose more incremental implementations and these might be able to be modded by players. For example:

Simulate limited finances

Before the modern era, most nations stuggled to bring in more taxes than expenses. This should be reflected in the high costs of a royal court, administrators, and a standing army or navy.

Offer choices to boost finances

A good split of choices might be

-Debase coinage

-Issue bonds

-Raise taxes

Of course, there should be both financial and cultural impacts to these choices. A debased currency would make marketplace purchases more expensive. Bonds would make trade routes to you more lucrative for the opposing culture. Raised taxes would increase the chance of revolt, etc.

Aye_Avast wrote:

The problem is that such a field does not fit well with the current trend of the game. The current trend is to focus on the cultural aspects of each "culture," and the financial element mentioned will likely be both too complex and too specific to be a good addition. Furthermore, the mechanics around money would need to be adjusted to have bonds and other financial instruments. Perhaps propose more incremental implementations and these might be able to be modded by players. For example:

Simulate limited finances

Before the modern era, most nations stuggled to bring in more taxes than expenses. This should be reflected in the high costs of a royal court, administrators, and a standing army or navy.

 

Offer choices to boost finances

A good split of choices might be

-Debase coinage

-Issue bonds

-Raise taxes

Of course, there should be both financial and cultural impacts to these choices. A debased currency would make marketplace purchases more expensive. Bonds would make trade routes to you more lucrative for the opposing culture. Raised taxes would increase the chance of revolt, etc.

I'd say it does fit in the gameplay, the concept of "money" in HK is getting something down instantly. So there will be a lot of chances you want to "borrow" money, like when you need to fight a defensive war, or when you desperately want to change an administrator. If borrowing is not allowed, i'd say it feels like lacking something when playing.

Civ treats borrowing like an exchange of per-turn gold for gold. But the way it handles it does not provide good user experience, you have to compare the offers one by one, and you have to use a calculator to see if the offering makes economic sense. There also lacks a mechanism to encourage repayment, players can exploit the civ borrowing system by starting war right upon borrowing from AI, and there's no extra punishment for not keeping repayments.

The fiscal aspect of state-management you mentioned is also an interesting thing to see, but it's parallel to my proposed bond market which is basically a borrowing mechanism. A pop-up multiple choice will not serve player's need to squeezing things out instantly during a suprize war or other emmergency.

Thanks for clarifying. Until you mentioned it just now, I completely forgot about player-to-player gold trades in Civ. The reason I forgot is because it was not well implemented. On easier difficulties, the player usually doesn't need the extra money and can earn it on their own by construction/luxuries. On harder difficulties, the AI trade logic never makes logical trade offers.

While there could be a "bond market," I think it needs to be much simpler:

     i.e., "Issue Bonds" decision: Players receives 50 Money, empire effect -6 Money for 10 turns. If player reserves drops below 0 Money, player defaults and can't Issue Bonds for 5 turns.

Government borrowing is very important in the real world, but it's difficult to make it fun, realistic, and meaningful. Players will always be more interested in the flashier parts of this game, like wars and colonizing or building, and if it takes even a few minutes to understand and make decisions about bonds, players will just skip the mechanic. That's why I suggest it be simplified and put into a larger context.