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Churches, mosques, and other religious buildings

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5 years ago
Sep 9, 2020, 5:15:56 PM

Hello! So, during the reveals of the first two eras, we had a bunch of Emblematic Quarters, most of them with very "practical" purposes and very few of them was 100% religious, even those linked to religion were fairly generic (nemeton, pyramids...). But then, in the next two eras we have 3 mosques, 2 churches and a Buddhist temple (we could include even more EQ as religious, like the Aztec altar or the Frank scriptorium). It's not that I don't think they are emblematic buildings for those cultures - although a different question would be if, for example, I think that a Gothic cathedral is an early modern emblematic building). My doubt is about which function are those EQ going to have, as I guess that every faction must have at least one religious Quarter.


I also guess that EQ don't replace regular Quarters, so ¿are these factions going to have two religious EQ? Like the Spanish having a Gothic cathedral as EQ, and then a more generic church in baroque style. That would feel a bit redundant... It could be "solved" giving different functions to the different buildings, but it would be very strange if two Christian temples give different bonuses because they are built in different

styles.


¿Are these factions going to be limited to certain religions? It would be a nonsense building your emblematic mosques everywhere if your state religion is polytheist. But forcing the Ottoman to be Muslim isn't the kind of religion gameplay that was recently shown in the Feature Focus video... It would be cool if the religions aren't going to match real ones, For example, Sultan Camii is built by Ottomans with a custom monotheist religion, but then, if the Spanish join that religion and the Mughals stay on their own, we would have mosques in two different religions and Sultan Camii and Gothic Cathedral as EQ of the same religion... That would feel strange.


So many doubts... But the game is looking very promising in any case! =)

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5 years ago
Sep 9, 2020, 7:41:32 PM

hmmm... I don't know, I mean, the culture switch are really "abstract" and "gamey", there is not real direct lineage and era are really spaced in time.

For exemple, if you try to make a lineage run for the Spanish you will probably come from Ummayads, Franks, Goths, Romans or Carthagians.

You must admit than the culture switch between Ummayads to Spain is really "brutale". You can just imagine than Gotica Cathedral are powerful remains of the "early" Spanish culture even if you are now the jewish Spanish, with your generic religious quarters being synagogues.


So for the roleplay, it's not so weird imho. Or in this what if universe, these architecture codes simply belong to another religion :p


For me, the meaning of these Spanish Cathedral is to represent the matrimonial alliances (from the culture card description) of Spain which given birth to this unified culture, given them power and these rich architectures.

And representing all the cultures which participated to these Cathedrals and simply participated to Spain.

So the bonus of this EQ will be really specific and unique I think, in comparaison of generic christian temples.


The other argument is simply to make the Spanish cities looking spanish with their own architectural achievement. The EQ is based on Leon Cathedral, the first discribed as plateresque (Spanish architectural style).


hmmm I mean, it could look redundant, but Ottomans is the perfect exemple, if you skip their greatest architectural achievements (Sinan Mosque), just because it's a mosque, it's a little sad. And these Sinan mosque are really meaningful about cultural heritage because based on Byzantine architecture.


So, I don't know; I am maybe wrong, because we need to try the game.But the aesthetic of the cities will really be good with these choices I think.

Imagine your Mughal city with the city center based on the Red Fort, multiple prestigious indo-islamic mosque, and a Taj-Mahal wonder. It will be neat I think, even if their is some generic Buddhist temples, because you embraced Buddhism^^



Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Sep 9, 2020, 8:53:13 PM
Veah wrote:

the next two eras we have 3 mosques, 2 churches and a Buddhist temple (we could include even more EQ as religious, like the Aztec altar or the Frank scriptorium). My doubt is about which function are those EQ going to have, as I guess that every faction must have at least one religious Quarter.


I also guess that EQ don't replace regular Quarters, so ¿are these factions going to have two religious EQ?


¿Are these factions going to be limited to certain religions? It would be a nonsense building your emblematic mosques everywhere if your state religion is polytheist. But forcing the Ottoman to be Muslim isn't the kind of religion gameplay that was recently shown in the Feature Focus video... It would be cool if the religions aren't going to match real ones, 

From the OpenDev, Emblematic Quarters (EQ) took the place of vanilla district on the construction panel. The Babylonian astronomy house replaced the vanilla science quarter, yet the Aztec's sacrificial altar only provided an ability to -1 pop. for +20 stability for 10 turns. Pre-alpha stuff is always subject to change, so I could see culture EQs coming into play as an additional construction option as well. 

 

EQs already built did not "downgrade" or disappear when city ownership changed in OpenDev thus the English could benefit from Khmer Baray. Taking this into account, I do not believe already built EQs would "upgrade" into the next culture's EQ that shares the same type.

 

An Umayyad Grand Mosque would remain after transitioning into the Spanish that unlocked Catedral Gotica. However, the Spanish culture wouldn't be able to construct additional Grand Masques. 

 

Functionally, many religious EQs could provide a spectrum of benefits not necessarily chained to +X relion per turn. A Grand Mosque could provide major stability with influence adjacencies whereas a Catedral Gotica could provide minor stability with major religious adjacencies. Such buildings could possibly add abilities to trigger within the city similar to the Sacrificial altar. 

 

As Humankind appears to be pushing the "alternative history" theme, christianity could have adopted the Pagoda as their house of worship instead of churches on a playthrough. I do not see certain religions being limited to certain architectures or EQs, but I could see real-world religions in-game retaining certain tenants inherent within its faith.

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Sep 10, 2020, 8:41:08 AM
Tainted wrote:
From the OpenDev, Emblematic Quarters (EQ) took the place of vanilla district on the construction panel. The Babylonian astronomy house replaced the vanilla science quarter

Actually, it did not. Some Emblematic Quarters do replace Generic Quarters, like the Haven and Cothon replacing the Harbor, but when they do this is explicitly listed in their description.


And yes, these different religious Emblematic Quarters do have differences in their effects. None of these quarters are tied to a specific religion, though.

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5 years ago
Sep 11, 2020, 6:21:55 AM
The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales wrote:

Actually, it did not. Some Emblematic Quarters do replace Generic Quarters, like the Haven and Cothon replacing the Harbor, but when they do this is explicitly listed in their description.

Thank you for catching my mistake with the Astronomy House! I did not even realize the science district was right there the entire time. 


It is interesting that some EQs would replace while others do not.  


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