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The UI for the district placement needs to be god-tier

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5 years ago
Oct 8, 2020, 3:19:26 AM

This new city growth system is a fascinating puzzle game. It does seem to inherit the problems the EL system had though:


1) You place one piece, and then move on, and return to that city 5-30 minutes later and have to pick up your train of thought again.

2) The game-world graphics muddle the important elements of the puzzle game.


Both these issues will be drawn to the forefront now that the puzzle has deeper mechanics.


The solution I propose is twofold. Firstly, a puzzle game needs a puzzle game UI, not a repurposed strategy UI. There's no need to be subtle. Some option to toggle into a highly abstracted UI specifically for city expansion, in the vein of the hacking UI in ES2, would be fantastic. I'm thinking something as abstract as the game Hexcells: https://store.steampowered.com/app/265890/Hexcells/


Secondly, within that UI it should be possible to pre-plan a city if one so chooses. Throw down the tiles, with their build order, upgrade order if pertinent (I didn't play OD enough to see if that was a thing), and then in the city's build queue there will be "build next blueprint piece" and "build next blueprint piece (repeating)". This is not to say it will always be ideal to fully blueprint a city immediately, but if we're going to play a puzzle game we should have the opportunity to fully solve it and execute that solution without holding it in mind for dozens of turns. The blueprint can always be overriden, of course. It will be necessary to let the player queue up district types that aren't researched yet, but there are easy UI solutions for that.


If anyone is unconvinced, consider how much better it felt to play the Vodyani after the patch that improved the UI for their ark upgrades. Now apply that to every match and playstyle, and make it something new players will be dealing with before writing their steam reviews. Besides, if there's a neat puzzle game hidden in here, I'd like to play it without the 4x feeling like a constant distraction.

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5 years ago
Oct 8, 2020, 11:07:03 AM

Yep +1


Not sure we need to go as far as Hexcell example, maybe still having some transparency of the tiles, but having a real clear thing when putting a quarter yeah

Also being able to plan the city would allow to try a few combinations to seee which is best. Could be something as simple as civ6 pins but really being in the city with the numbers showing is better

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5 years ago
Oct 9, 2020, 2:00:09 AM

I agree. The aforementioned quality of life features come off as things that would significantly help players better understand the thought process that would go into city placement. Although I have trouble invisionimg how pre defined city layouts would work in the game, considering how emblematic quarters vary from culture to culture--making it difficult for there to be a universal, optimal, automative precet order to be used on every culture--not to mention the need to deal with bonuses given by varying terrain, or even the agecency bonuses(some of which only unlock in later technology stages). Maybe on the theoretical spacebar screen allow the player to paint tiles to the colors of the coinciding districts(Brown = Industry Dostrict, Blue = Science district, etc) and have the player be able to save that colored layout to paste it in another city down the line. once placed, the A.I prioritizes building those districts in coinciding order.

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5 years ago
Oct 9, 2020, 8:58:15 AM

i think its easier to just consider current quarter/ quarters of the era

Then you can adjust next eras

There is no need to plan 3 eras ahead

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5 years ago
Oct 9, 2020, 11:15:30 AM

Hi !


As already mentionned, building queue is already implemented in the UI, so you can already plan several extensions/infrastructures ahead in your cities (though limited to your current era's and culture's playthrough), allowing you to spend more time on other things. Of course, you can always rectify/adjust your building queue, based on your current situation/research and/or city yields needs. And by the way, about upgrading infrastructures, since upgrades need a particular technology, they can't be queued without having researched that particular technology.


SpacesuitSpiff wrote:
It will be necessary to let the player queue up district types that aren't researched yet

Without taking into account transcending, I'm curious to know how you'd figure this can be solved, since you'll have, 5 times in a playthrough, the possibility to change your culture/civilization, once you reach Classical Era ? With 10 cultures choices every era (assuming you're the first player to reach the next era every time, allowing you to have all the choices available), that would mean 50 Emblematic Quarters. 

That's a personnal taste, but I'd feel overwhelmed by the UI if it included all extensions/infrastructures (Emblematic Quarters included) of every era right at the beginning of Ancient Era, not to mention that it would look like a mess in the extensions/infrastructures list (and how would they be sorted ?). That would feel so weird/anachronic/overwhelming to me.


Besides, that would also mean that you'd have already planned the "cultural path" you'd follow, starting from Ancient Era all the way to Contemporary Era, and that you'd be sure to pick, for each era, the culture you've planned. While I can see this as a viable strategy on easiest difficulties, I doubt it'll be the same for highest difficulties.

Since advancing to the next era is based on a fame threshold (and since it's Humankind's motto !), "what if" you can't pick the culture you'd wish/you planned in one particular era ? In other words, and specifically about EQ, what if you already placed a particular EQ blueprint on your building queue and on the map, and you can't build it because you can't pick the related culture ? In any case, you'd have to choose another culture, and place another EQ/extension in its place. You'd have to adjust/rectify your already planned city layout, at the very least because this EQ isn't available anymore, and moreover, because all the planning you've done at the start, would have been done for that particular culture/civilization and related EQ.


As already proposed here, during OpenDev, and above by MasterPaw, I really think pins/tacks, such as in Civ6, really helps to plan ahead, allowing you to keep track of your train of thought in terms of city planning as well as providing enough flexibility, while you advance through eras and researches.

And, since an encyclopedia will be present ingame, I'm sure we'll have the possibility to check all the cultures/civilizations mix and related Emblematic Quarters with their base yields (and adjacency bonuses whenever applicable).


Lastly, there was a suggestion made a few months ago, about a "one-player game"/sandbox mode. Don't know if it's something that could be implemented, since it's focusing only on city building, but that could be a great way to optimize city building and test several cultures/civilizations combinations.


Cheers !

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Oct 9, 2020, 3:36:00 PM

@Waykot 


You're certainly right about explosively branching culture variants. Without knowing all the details of the Emblematic Quarters (I was pretty busy during OpenDev) I assume a checkbox saying "substitute in EQs when appropriate" would mitigate that somewhat without further acknowledging future EQ options? Either way, I'm glad this is on people's radar, I'll leave further discussion to people with deeper knowledge of the mechanics.


Thanks for the replies, all.

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