A1y0sh4 wrote:

Monarchy Power

Constitutional Monarchy: Allows to Buyout Districts with Influence instead of  Money

Absolute Monarchy: Allows to Buyout Units with Influence instead of  Money

Political Influence

Monarchy: Allows to claim Cultural Wonders with Money instead of  Influence

Aristocracy: Allows to enact Civics with Money instead of  Influence

I made this additions since I think that making Money and Influence change roles and usefulness would create more interesting and flexible playstyles that would enrich the gameplay experience. Actually I'm not very sure if it would fit in the game's nature and, given that, I even ignore if it would even be balanced so I'm looking for other people's feedback. Would find these some interesting mechanics instead of the actual ones that are already in game?

I think that I've finished to create a list of Civics improvements that I would like to see in the game. Since now I'll modify it in base of the feedback that I'll receive for balancing or improving further some ideas of mine. My only hope is just that you may find useful my suggestions and, having I already said everything I wanted to, now I can only wish you a nice reading

Hola A1y0sh4
Thank you for all your time and dedication on all the suggestion on balance/improving the feedback.
Do not hesitate, I will share it with the team, but I can not do any promises if they will be implemented and if yes, till which extension and date.

Long post, I'll try a response. I already wrote something here (mostly interesting because of some answers).

Knowledge Authorities

Elders Wisdom: +1  Science per  Population on City or Outpost  (and change the neolitic LT of Science with one of Stability)

I don't like it. I could see a +2 instead of the actual +1 (for Researchers), but this one increases it too much and steps away from the idea of »elders«. Furthermore, I see no reason to tie the neolithic research to stability.

Foreign Customs

Cultural Eradication: Prevents the spread of other Empires' spheres of influence through controlled Territory, -25% loss of War Support

I'd see a boost to influence generation, rather than a thing tide to WS.

Press Freedom

Propaganda: +5 War Support on every War Support gain/loss

It's way too weak. You should at least keep the ancient bonus.

Working Conditions

Workers' Rights: +3 Stability per Workers

Profit-Focused: +1 Industry per Workers, +2 Gold per Workers, -50% delay between two crisis Independent People spawn on City or Outpost

Seems unbalanced, to say the least.
Even with 20 workers, it would only produce a meager 60 stability, when players don't really need it anymore. Plus, more workers should equate less stability.
Profit-focused pushes more towards heavy production, and I don't think the game needs it, as most players seem lost when it is question to play something else than heavy prod'.
I would replace the delay for crisis with a („huge“) penalty on stability for »profit focused« and rather on MaQ than on workers.

Aristocracy Evolution

Democratic Republic: +1  Science on Commons Quarter per adjacent District, +1  Gold on Commons Quarter per adjacent District

Oligarchy: -15% on all Money cost 

All money costs ? Seems very very powerful.
I like the boost to »Democratic Republic« though

Leadership

Small Council: +1 City Cap

Autarch: +20  Stability on Capital, +10% FIMS on Capital

Autarch is still way too weak that way. The +1 city cap is mostly, at the beginning, a way to be at +1 above the city cap, instead of +2. The bonus is of more than 100 influence at a critical moment. Only +10% FIMS (no second I?) seems way too low.

Monarchy Power

Constitutional Monarchy: Allows to Buyout Districts with Influence instead of Money

Absolute Monarchy: Allows to Buyout Units with Influence instead of Money

Is it influence instead of money or a choice between both?
Could be good, if the costs are right.

Republic Evolution

One-Party State: +1 Stability per Population on all Cities

Seems a bit meh and not really useful at the time you can get it.

Irreligion

Secularism: Lose the ability to enforce a State Religion, build new Holy Sites or pick Tenets Become immune to religious Grievances, +1 Influence per Faith

State Atheism: Replace the current State Religion with Atheism Lose the ability to build Holy Sites or pick Tenets All religious Civics are locked and some invested  Influence is reimbursed, +1 Science per Faith 

Not a pro of the faith mecanism, but I feel that to play those 2, you'll need a good faith output to benefit from the last bonus and seems to go against the idea, particularly »State Atheism«

Religious Minorities

Taxed Minorities: +2  Money per Population on City if Territories follow Foreign Religion

Untaxed Minorities: +2  Stability per Population on City if Territories follow Foreign Religion

Interesting. Here the stability matters, as it comes really early.

Scientific Facts

Literalism: +2 Faith on Research Quarter, +2 Stability on Research Quarter

Compatibilism: +1% Science on Empire per Holy Site if Territories follow State Religion 

I feel it would have been a good occasion to give a malus.
Literalism: +5 faith, -2 science, +2 stab, would seem better.
Why limit compatibilism with a state religion?

Political Influence

Monarchy: Allows to claim Cultural Wonders with Money instead of Influence

Aristocracy: Allows to enact Civics with Money instead of Influence

Choice between both mode of payment?

Army Wages

Plundered Wages: [...] Units Regenerate Health when ransacking 

Interesting but also a bit of an insta-pick?

Artistic Expression

Censored Arts: -30% Stability loss per turn on all Cities, -30% Stability gain per turn on all Cities

Free Arts: +30% Stability loss per turn on all Cities, +30% Stability gain per turn on all Cities 

I still don't like those. I'd like to see something asymetrical:
Censored could be thought about a low lost and a faster gain.
Free Arts should be somethig else

Legitimacy

Codified Laws: -30% on Attach Outpost cost, -30% on Absorb City cost

-50 & -25 ? Something to help going tall.

Religious Tolerance

Religious Hostility: +5  Faith on Territories, Adds a new grievance against Empires with a different State Religion.

Open-Minded: Religious District can benefit from other religions's tenets (+2 X on Religious District) if Territories follow Foreign Religion 

Hard to give an opinion on that one, but I'd go with a symetrical approach: you're open-minded? Then you can't ask anyone to change religion.

Punishment

Physical Punishment: +1 Stability per Population on Unstable City, Winning a battle against an Indipendent People generates Influence

Forfeiture: +1 Gold per Population on Unstable City, Winning a battle against an Indipendent People generates Money

I'm against bonuses for unstable cities.
Why restrict the second bonus to IP?

Capital Punishment (Physical Punishment)

Lifetime Sentence: +1 Stability on Garrison per Workers 

Hard Labor: +1 Industry on Resource Deposit per Workers

Lifetime: Why only per worker?
Hard labor: could be additionnal slots for workers, per garrison?

Capital Punishment (Forfeiture)

Lifetime Sentence: +1 Stability on Commons Quarter per Farmers 

Rehabilitation: +1 Food on Resource Deposit per Farmers

I'd go with an identical thing for Lifetime than in the previous.
I don't like the Rehab going to Farmers, as if it were only way for a convict to go back into society.

Independent Peoples

Mercenary Armies: -50% on Hire Army cost (this should count even when buying-out your units with Money or Influence)

What about being able to actually buy them?

All that said, one big part of the civics is to get them. My thread covered part of the issues, I think you could add your opinions on that too, it'd be complete thread in that case.

great idea, support！

A lot of nice ideas here! Unfortunately a bit too large a list to comment on (though some people are doing it).  I'm not a big fan of your Knowledge Authorities change, but mostly because I'm also not a fan of Knowledge Authorities as it currently is! :)   The choice between "science from source A" and "science from source B" is mathematical and less interesting than what some other civics are and can be.

Cure_off wrote:

Press Freedom

Propaganda: +5 War Support on every War Support gain/loss

It's way too weak. You should at least keep the ancient bonus.

I actually quite like this one, and wonder if it may be too strong.  +5 War Support per engagement can fuel victories and turn small losses into small victories, too.  There's a Tier 1 Religious Tenet that gives +10 War Support on winning battles and forcing retreats that's become quite powerful in the new War Support system.  I like this is an option with or without that.  It's flavourful and neat.

RedSirus wrote:

I'm not a big fan of your Knowledge Authorities change, but mostly because I'm also not a fan of Knowledge Authorities as it currently is! :)   The choice between "science from source A" and "science from source B" is mathematical and less interesting than what some other civics are and can be.

Do you have any suggestion instead?

I feel the the science LT in the Neolitic Era almost a must-pick and I tought to use for this civic since, in my mind, the actual Elders Wisdom is way less useful I wouldn't opt for buffing it to 2 since it's already the Greeks LT (but it may still be replaced by something else)

I could see ways to defend the other neolithic choices.
I agree that Elders Wisdow is weaker.
At some point, with cultures being added to the game, some stuff will end up looking very much alike.
+1 science for researcher and farmers?

Personally I don't really see Cultural Eradication as a way to boost your influence than just to refure the one of other empires. I see refusing other cultures as a sign of pride and I thought that tyding it to War Support would represent well such a sign

I was thinking at the vacuum. There has to be a culture. If you get ride of one, another one will settle. In this case, the one that decided to eradicate the other.
I guess I saw as much the affirmation of a culture than the negation of another one.
I think it doesn't have to be tied to war necessarily.

Actually this is WAYY more powerful than it seems counting that it counts even at time of peace (you can recover your War Support very fast and face better war defeats)

I may underestimate it, of course.

I don't really feel like Civics should give malus but I know there should always be some exception (but the +5 Faith seems too much to me)

I see »Isolationism« or »Atheism« has incorporating a malus.
The +5 faith was only reasonable because of the malus on science.

If I'm not mistaken the game counts the rebels of your cities as Indipendent People, doesn't it?

I was thinking of other players too.

I did no have any idea so I tought to depend the bonus on Workers as I did previously even if I wrote it later (actually I wouldn't really know what to do but I didn't really like that bonus, it doesn't seem very "original")

Not everything can be original. Some well thought and easy mechanics, while a bit boring in themselves, can help keep the game fluid and give space to more spicy parts of the game.
I don't really care about »Punishment«, as long as the requirements stay the same: I never had it, even once.

PS: sorry if I didn't write in your thread but it did not appear while I was writing mine and I totally forgot that the community had already faced the matter

You've nothing to be sorry about. My thread was a bit different and far less clean. It was more of a way to link ideas together, as some did post replies (including you).

A1y0sh4 wrote:

RedSirus wrote:

I'm not a big fan of your Knowledge Authorities change, but mostly because I'm also not a fan of Knowledge Authorities as it currently is! :)   The choice between "science from source A" and "science from source B" is mathematical and less interesting than what some other civics are and can be.

Do you have any suggestion instead?

I think I'd keep Foreign Innovations as it is, with +1 Science per Trade Route.  It's flavourful and on-point.  For "Elders' Wisdom", maybe a bonus to stability, influence, or food to show how our traditions have kept us strong and fed.  Perhaps in as a counterpart to to Scientific Facts' Literalism's [+1 Stability and +1 Faith on Research Quarters] (and I do like your tweak to +2 Stability), Elder's Wisdom could be [+1 or +2 Stability and +1 Influence on Farmers Quarters] or something along those lines.

A1y0sh4 wrote:

Slaves

War Slaves: +1 Food on Garrison per Farmers on Victorious City,  +1 Industry on Garrison per Workers on Victorious City 

Criminal Slaves: +3 Industry on Commons Quarter per adjacent Makers Quarter,  +3 Food on Commons Quarter per adjacent Farmers Quarter

I like this, or at least the idea behind it (I'm not sure about the balance).  Slaves is (A) something I feel icky implementing, and (B) super weak anyways as it's currently implemented in Humankind.  I rarely have enough Garrisons or Commons Quarters for +1 to mean anything.  Your "Criminal Slaves" is a neat mechanic in giving Commons Quarters a boost similar to many EQs that gain +3 from the relevant adjacency.  War Slaves is also interesting, but Victorious isn't a very common condition.  I think a city is only Victorious after you win a war, and not during one?

Either way, I'm enjoying many of these ideas.

I updated my ideas, here are underlined all the changes:

A1y0sh4 wrote:

Press Freedom

Freedom of speech: -20% Cost of enacting Civic, -20% Cost of canceling Civic

Propaganda: +3 War Support on every War Support gain/loss

A1y0sh4 wrote:

Aristocracy Evolution

Democratic Republic: +3 Science on Commons Quarter per adjacent Research Quarter, +3 Gold on Commons Quarter per adjacent Market Quarter

Oligarchy: -15% on all Money cost 

A1y0sh4 wrote:

Leadership

Small Council: +1 City Cap

Autarch: +20  Stability on Capital, +10% FIMSI on Capital

A1y0sh4 wrote:

Monarchy Power

Constitutional Monarchy: Allows to Buyout Districts with Influence

Absolute Monarchy: Allows to Buyout Units with Influence

A1y0sh4 wrote:

Republic Evolution

Democratic Republic: +3 Science on Commons Quarter per adjacent Research Quarter, +3 Gold on Commons Quarter per adjacent Market Quarter

One-Party State: +1 Stability on all Cities per Empire's Population 

A1y0sh4 wrote:

Scientific Facts

Literalism: +2 Stability on Research Quarter, +2 Faith on Research Quarter

Compatibilism: +1% Science on Empire per Holy Site if Territories follow State Religion 

A1y0sh4 wrote:

Slaves

War Slaves: +1 Food on Garrison per Farmers on Victorious City, +1 Industry on Garrison per Workers on Victorious City 

Criminal Slaves: +3 Industry on Commons Quarter per adjacent Makers Quarter, +3 Food on Commons Quarter per adjacent Farmers Quarter

I updated my ideas, here are underlined all the changes: 

A1y0sh4 wrote:

Knowledge Authorities

Elders Wisdom: +1 Science per  Population on City or Outpost  (and change the neolitic LT)        PS: I'll dedicate it a thread in the future

Foreign Innovation: +1 Science per number of Trade Routes on City or Outpost 

A1y0sh4 wrote:

Working Conditions

Workers' Rights: +2 Stability on Makers Quarter, +2 Influence on Makers Quarter 

Profit-Focused: +2 Money on Makers Quarter per adjacent Makers Quarter, -1 Stability on Makers Quarter per adjacent Makers Quarter 

A1y0sh4 wrote:

Leadership

Small Council: +1 City Cap, Allows to build structures on outposts with Money (even the "move outpost" action)

Autarch: +20% FIMSI on Capital, Allows to build structures on outposts with Influence (untill now it should have been possible just the "move outpost" action; resources and buildings, except  the emblematic ones, shouldn't have been possible to build)

A1y0sh4 wrote:

Irreligion

Secularism: Lose the ability to enforce a State Religion, build new Holy Sites or pick Tenets Become immune to religious Grievances, +1 Gold per Faith

State Atheism: Replace the current State Religion with Atheism Lose the ability to build Holy Sites or pick Tenets All religious Civics are locked and some invested  Influence is reimbursed, +1 Science per Faith 

A1y0sh4 wrote:

Punishment

Physical Punishment: Expending Population raises Stability (una tantum, in the same turn where the action in made; 1 pop = 2% Stability, if I expend 10 people and my stability is at 70%, it will instantly raise the value to 90% but it won't stop the loss of stability)

Forfeiture: Unstable Cities increase their yields when recovering Stability

After a long time, I have finally updated my suggestion of the Punishment civic (the previous one was not so original and coherent)

I have made a couple of changes to my list, here they are underlined:

A1y0sh4 wrote:

Knowledge Authorities

Elders Wisdom: +1 Science per  Farmers on City or Outpost  (and change the neolithic LT)

Foreign Innovation: +1 Science per number of Trade Routes on City or Outpost 

A1y0sh4 wrote:

Foreign Customs

Cultural Eradication: -50% cultural pressure in your territories, Gain a Grievance against empires that have culturally converted one of your Territories

Cultural Respect: +50%  Fame earned per Aesthete Era Star

A1y0sh4 wrote:

Working Conditions

Workers' Rights: +1 Stability per Worker on City or Outpost, +1 Stability per Farmer on City or Outpost

Profit-Focused: +1 Money per Worker on City or Outpost, +1 Money per Farmer on City or Outpost

A1y0sh4 wrote:

Independent Peoples

Fellow Peoples: -50% Cost of signing Treaties with Independent Peoples (and add a new grievance against empires that attack or have relations with a your allied Independent People)

Mercenary Armies: -50% on Hire Army cost (this should count even when buying-out your units with Money or Influence)

RedSirus wrote:
A lot of nice ideas here! Unfortunately a bit too large a list to comment on (though some people are doing it).  I'm not a big fan of your Knowledge Authorities change, but mostly because I'm also not a fan of Knowledge Authorities as it currently is! :)   The choice between "science from source A" and "science from source B" is mathematical and less interesting than what some other civics are and can be.

@RedSirus I hope that you would appreciate my recent change (now you obtain science from Farmers), the previous one was in fact unbalance due the presence of Harappans in the early game.