Stephanos wrote:

About the Sumerians and Natufians I'd say, I won't have the problem if they are put in the game, but there are already so many ancient cultures of the Middle/Near East I'd rather see some from elsewhere. (Although of course, these Middle East Cultures are the ones of that era we know most about)

I'm fine with that. As someone who wants them to have a representative of a given culture in every era, I think we could use more European and East Asian Ancient Era cultures, and perhaps some South/Central Americans ones too. The only Ancient Era Near East cultures we need are the Medes and/or Elamites (Who are already in the game by the way and only need to be promoted into playable cultures like the Hissho were in ES2.), and one for the Arabs from the Arabian Peninsula.  

FullScreenLurking wrote:

So this next suggestion is a bit of strange one because it's based on someone else's suggestion. When looking through the google doc, I was quite happy to see that someone had already suggested a culture based on Iran. While I was glad, there were some design choices I disagreed with. In fairness to the original author, I will be posting their original suggestion with my changes marked in red.

Author:	u/lionelcheahkaien	FullScreenLurker (TheVisitorGuest)
Culture Name:	Pahlavi Iranians	Iranians
Culture Description:	The Pahlavis came to power after Ahmad Shah Qajar, the last Qajar ruler of Iran, proved unable to stop British and Soviet encroachment on Iranian sovereignty, had his position extremely weakened by a military coup, and was removed from power by the parliament while in France. The Iranian parliament, known as the Majlis, convening as a Constituent Assembly on 12 December 1925, deposed the young Ahmad Shah Qajar, and declared Reza Khan the new King (Shah) of Imperial State of Persia. In 1935, Reza Shah asked foreign delegates to use the endonym Iran in formal correspondence and the official name the Imperial State of Iran was adopted.	Once they were among the most powerful and influential nations of the world, but those days are long gone. The Iranian people have endured for 2500 years through many highs and many lows, all the while upholding the ancient legacy of their forefathers. Now however they find themselves in a world dominated by new powers, but it would be unwise for them to underestimate the Iranians, for through their shrewdness and wisdom of centuries, they might achieve that greatness again, and it will be these new powers who will  find their heydays behind them.
Era:	Contemporary	Contemporary
Affinity:	Merchant	Aesthete
Legacy Trait:	A Time of Freedom and Prosperity: Your capital city will never lose stability.	2500 Years of Heritage:”+X” influence. Common Quarters generate more stability and "X" influence.
Emblematic Unit:	Javidan Guards (Royal guard: +50 combat strength when fighting in the capital city.)	Javidan Guards (Royal guard: +50 combat strength when fighting in the capital city.)
Emblematic Unit Description:	The core of the Imperial Guard was the all volunteer Javidan Guard (Gârd e Jâvidân, Persian: Immortal Guard), better known as the "Immortals" after the ancient Persian royal guard or Persian Immortals. The "Immortals" were based in the Lavizan Barracks in northern Tehran. By 1978, this elite force comprised a brigade of 4,000-5,000 men, including a battalion of Chieftain tanks. It was responsible for the internal and external security of the royal palaces.	The core of the Imperial Guard was the all volunteer Javidan Guard (Gârd e Jâvidân, Persian: Immortal Guard), better known as the "Immortals" after the ancient Persian royal guard or Persian Immortals. The "Immortals" were based in the Lavizan Barracks in northern Tehran. By 1978, this elite force comprised a brigade of 4,000-5,000 men, including a battalion of Chieftain tanks. It was responsible for the internal and external security of the royal palaces.
Emblematic District:	Anglo-Iranian Oil Company office (+50 gold/turn for every exploitation.)	Public Square (Provides +X influence and stability. +X stability for every adjacent quarter. Increases yields of adjacent districts) (Note the in game appearance  of this building should be based on Azadi Square/Shahyad Square)
Emblematic District Description:	The Anglo-Persian Oil Company (APOC) was a British company founded in 1908 following the discovery of a large oil field in Masjed Soleiman, Iran. The British government purchased *51%* of the company in *1914*, gaining a controlling number of *___{{shares}}___, effectively nationalizing the company. It was the first company to extract petroleum from Iran. In 1935 APOC was renamed the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC) when Reza Shah Pahlavi formally asked foreign countries to refer to Persia by its endonym Iran.	Traditionally public squares have served as the heart of many communities around the world across many different cultures, and continue to do so today. Among Iranians they are considered one of the essential features in urban planning. The most famous of Iran's public squares is Azadi Square, built to commemorate 2500 years of Persian heritage.

 

To keep this post from becoming too long, I'll be making a subsequent post detailing the reasoning and rationale behind some of the changes I made, it's only fair given the unique circumstances. Long story short, I value the culture being true to its real life counterparts more than introducing cool mechanics or a particular play style, and u/lionelcheahkaien's "Pahlavi Iranians" simply wasn't accurate enough for me. This wasn't the only reason, as some traits had to be changed because they simply didn't work with some of the other changes I made.

 

Also when writing my description I tried my best to emulate the Humankind’s style. To avoid any confusion I also wanted to say changed my username recently from “TheVisitorGuest” to “FullScreenLurker” in order to remain consistent with my Twitch Account.

Nice story telling, Fullscreen Lurking. You do seem to like story the way I just do. In fact, it appears that this "man" you tried to "correct" or change his "story" quite a bit, it was based on the concept of story that is way too technical. You see, there are some "people" and "lore-writers" currentily in game that write everything too "technically" and whit way too little Heart. they didn't write actual lore, just, lore-filler words that sumrises their technical expertise on something. Sometimes I feel like that most Lore in endless space 2 (and possibly other games) tries too much to "impress" it's readers with countless filler words "Lore's" that means nothing but boring statiscal Data in regards to how "Governaments" and "Companies" are mande, and run.

Sometimes I feel like the entire lore of ES2 , Humankind and other games has to go through another, way more in depth technical revision...

Because I don't feel like, and I don't consider like, that the current extremely and over-"techy" technical and technicalistic Lore that Endless Space 2 and other games from Amplitude such as Humankind is having to be real lore, so... but like,

I just feel like it isn't real lore that es2 writes...

It's just... So, uncreative...

I feel like that real lore and real stories start up with creativity, emotions, Words and Heart...

Just like the way you did, which you gave meaning and an entire new meaning to something so wordy and so techy I couldn't barely even read...!

In fact... I think that the greatest Stories, are the ones who inspire upon Imagination...

Other than those, who tries to describe, the Boring and Mundane issues of Reality...

Or simply...

Avow,

The reader, to be Desperate in Peace... 

Sometimes I feel like that the Lore misses more poetry and Emotions,

Rather than just Words... Descriptions...

And other empire -run-"wide" technical stuff.

I feel sick of reading and writing "propaganda" and "manipulation of peoples and perception" over and over again as to basically the only solution to 90-50-70% of all the peoples and players governaments choices to riddle and deal with the situation and "stuff" from the empires... As it is as if propaganda, paperwork and bureocracy...

Are the only things, we can ever read, as of Lore... 

In this game, and planet...

Far beyond... than the Poetry, and the Beauitifull Creativity of Imagination...

That Nourishes... and Replenishes,

Our Minds.... and Hearts...

Where is, the Epic Poetry...

In Humankind...

And Endless, Space 2...?

...

Velorace wrote:

FullScreenLurking wrote:

So this next suggestion is a bit of strange one because it's based on someone else's suggestion. When looking through the google doc, I was quite happy to see that someone had already suggested a culture based on Iran. While I was glad, there were some design choices I disagreed with. In fairness to the original author, I will be posting their original suggestion with my changes marked in red.

Author:	u/lionelcheahkaien	FullScreenLurker (TheVisitorGuest)
Culture Name:	Pahlavi Iranians	Iranians
Culture Description:	The Pahlavis came to power after Ahmad Shah Qajar, the last Qajar ruler of Iran, proved unable to stop British and Soviet encroachment on Iranian sovereignty, had his position extremely weakened by a military coup, and was removed from power by the parliament while in France. The Iranian parliament, known as the Majlis, convening as a Constituent Assembly on 12 December 1925, deposed the young Ahmad Shah Qajar, and declared Reza Khan the new King (Shah) of Imperial State of Persia. In 1935, Reza Shah asked foreign delegates to use the endonym Iran in formal correspondence and the official name the Imperial State of Iran was adopted.	Once they were among the most powerful and influential nations of the world, but those days are long gone. The Iranian people have endured for 2500 years through many highs and many lows, all the while upholding the ancient legacy of their forefathers. Now however they find themselves in a world dominated by new powers, but it would be unwise for them to underestimate the Iranians, for through their shrewdness and wisdom of centuries, they might achieve that greatness again, and it will be these new powers who will  find their heydays behind them.
Era:	Contemporary	Contemporary
Affinity:	Merchant	Aesthete
Legacy Trait:	A Time of Freedom and Prosperity: Your capital city will never lose stability.	2500 Years of Heritage:”+X” influence. Common Quarters generate more stability and "X" influence.
Emblematic Unit:	Javidan Guards (Royal guard: +50 combat strength when fighting in the capital city.)	Javidan Guards (Royal guard: +50 combat strength when fighting in the capital city.)
Emblematic Unit Description:	The core of the Imperial Guard was the all volunteer Javidan Guard (Gârd e Jâvidân, Persian: Immortal Guard), better known as the "Immortals" after the ancient Persian royal guard or Persian Immortals. The "Immortals" were based in the Lavizan Barracks in northern Tehran. By 1978, this elite force comprised a brigade of 4,000-5,000 men, including a battalion of Chieftain tanks. It was responsible for the internal and external security of the royal palaces.	The core of the Imperial Guard was the all volunteer Javidan Guard (Gârd e Jâvidân, Persian: Immortal Guard), better known as the "Immortals" after the ancient Persian royal guard or Persian Immortals. The "Immortals" were based in the Lavizan Barracks in northern Tehran. By 1978, this elite force comprised a brigade of 4,000-5,000 men, including a battalion of Chieftain tanks. It was responsible for the internal and external security of the royal palaces.
Emblematic District:	Anglo-Iranian Oil Company office (+50 gold/turn for every exploitation.)	Public Square (Provides +X influence and stability. +X stability for every adjacent quarter. Increases yields of adjacent districts) (Note the in game appearance  of this building should be based on Azadi Square/Shahyad Square)
Emblematic District Description:	The Anglo-Persian Oil Company (APOC) was a British company founded in 1908 following the discovery of a large oil field in Masjed Soleiman, Iran. The British government purchased *51%* of the company in *1914*, gaining a controlling number of *___{{shares}}___, effectively nationalizing the company. It was the first company to extract petroleum from Iran. In 1935 APOC was renamed the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC) when Reza Shah Pahlavi formally asked foreign countries to refer to Persia by its endonym Iran.	Traditionally public squares have served as the heart of many communities around the world across many different cultures, and continue to do so today. Among Iranians they are considered one of the essential features in urban planning. The most famous of Iran's public squares is Azadi Square, built to commemorate 2500 years of Persian heritage.

 

To keep this post from becoming too long, I'll be making a subsequent post detailing the reasoning and rationale behind some of the changes I made, it's only fair given the unique circumstances. Long story short, I value the culture being true to its real life counterparts more than introducing cool mechanics or a particular play style, and u/lionelcheahkaien's "Pahlavi Iranians" simply wasn't accurate enough for me. This wasn't the only reason, as some traits had to be changed because they simply didn't work with some of the other changes I made.

 

Also when writing my description I tried my best to emulate the Humankind’s style. To avoid any confusion I also wanted to say changed my username recently from “TheVisitorGuest” to “FullScreenLurker” in order to remain consistent with my Twitch Account.

Nice story telling, Fullscreen Lurking. You do seem to like story the way I just do. In fact, it appears that this "man" you tried to "correct" or change his "story" quite a bit, it was based on the concept of story that is way too technical. You see, there are some "people" and "lore-writers" currentily in game that write everything too "technically" and whit way too little Heart. they didn't write actual lore, just, lore-filler words that sumrises their technical expertise on something. Sometimes I feel like that most Lore in endless space 2 (and possibly other games) tries too much to "impress" it's readers with countless filler words "Lore's" that means nothing but boring statiscal Data in regards to how "Governaments" and "Companies" are mande, and run.

Sometimes I feel like the entire lore of ES2 , Humankind and other games has to go through another, way more in depth technical revision...

Because I don't feel like, and I don't consider like, that the current extremely and over-"techy" technical and technicalistic Lore that Endless Space 2 and other games from Amplitude such as Humankind is having to be real lore, so... but like,

I just feel like it isn't real lore that es2 writes...

It's just... So, uncreative...

I feel like that real lore and real stories start up with creativity, emotions, Words and Heart...

Just like the way you did, which you gave meaning and an entire new meaning to something so wordy and so techy I couldn't barely even read...!

In fact... I think that the greatest Stories, are the ones who inspire upon Imagination...

Other than those, who tries to describe, the Boring and Mundane issues of Reality...

Or simply...

Avow,

The reader, to be Desperate in Peace... 

Thank you, but I wasn't intentionally trying to write a story, it just happened to turn out that way because I was trying to emulate the style Amplitude themselves used for descriptions. I figured it might be more interesting or appropriate if the descriptions sounded like something that could be found in Humankind rather than just being an info dump about what the culture/EU/EQ was and it's history. Who knows it might even increase the chances of Amplitude actually adding my suggestion to the game. 

Just found this Youtube documentary today, and I think it has a lot of ideas for creating Slavic/Russian cultures to complete Russia's timeline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHPLFHHGk-o

Here are some rough ideas I brainstormed. I have also included some quotes from the video that I think might help to find EU, EQ, Affinities and Legacy Traits for these prospective cultures:

1. Venedi (Era 2, possibly Era 1)
   • "....a people who lived primarirly along the vestula river. … they built homes, carried shields, and fought unmounted, distinguishing them from their nomadic Sarmatian neighbors."
   • "Dismissed as yet another barbarian people by the classical civilizations, the Venedi were most likely the progenitors of all of today's Slavic nations."
2. Slavs (Era 2?)
   • EU: Slavic Archer/Poison Archer (has poison attack similar to Mayan royal javelaneers)
     • "War was not uncommon, both Balts, Fins and even amongst the Slavs. They avoided pitched battles, instead fighting in dense woodlands with ample cover, while using short iron spears, heavy wooden shields, and bows nocked with poison-tipped arrows."
   • "They tended to avoid the high ground settling along rivers and lakes where water was abundant. There they build strongholds with enclosed earth and timber ramparts, wooden walls and an external ditch. These bastions were often surrounded by various peripheral villages which provided grain and livestock."
   • "Pagan Slavs saw their gods as tied intrinsically with the untamed wilderness in which they lived, and build their shrines in Oaken groves."
   • "..., the law of hospitality was the most sacred of rites to tribal Slavs. All guests were cherished without exception and any tribe who mistreated and itinerant traveler would be attacked by neighboring tribes for their dishonor."

FullScreenLurking wrote:

Just found this Youtube documentary today, and I think it has a lot of ideas for creating Slavic/Russian cultures to complete Russia's timeline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHPLFHHGk-o

Here are some rough ideas I brainstormed. I have also included some quotes from the video that I think might help to find EU, EQ, Affinities and Legacy Traits for these prospective cultures:

1. Venedi (Era 2, possibly Era 1)
   • "....a people who lived primarirly along the vestula river. … they built homes, carried shields, and fought unmounted, distinguishing them from their nomadic Sarmatian neighbors."
   • "Dismissed as yet another barbarian people by the classical civilizations, the Venedi were most likely the progenitors of all of today's Slavic nations."
2. Slavs (Era 2?)
   • EU: Slavic Archer/Poison Archer (has poison attack similar to Mayan royal javelaneers)
     • "War was not uncommon, both Balts, Fins and even amongst the Slavs. They avoided pitched battles, instead fighting in dense woodlands with ample cover, while using short iron spears, heavy wooden shields, and bows nocked with poison-tipped arrows."
   • "They tended to avoid the high ground settling along rivers and lakes where water was abundant. There they build strongholds with enclosed earth and timber ramparts, wooden walls and an external ditch. These bastions were often surrounded by various peripheral villages which provided grain and livestock."
   • "Pagan Slavs saw their gods as tied intrinsically with the untamed wilderness in which they lived, and build their shrines in Oaken groves."
   • "..., the law of hospitality was the most sacred of rites to tribal Slavs. All guests were cherished without exception and any tribe who mistreated and itinerant traveler would be attacked by neighboring tribes for their dishonor."

 

Thanks a lot for the sharing, this video was extremly interesting. 

As I've been studying this topic for almost 12 years of my life,I couldn't resist jumping in the conversation as there was a lot of shortcuts at the very beggining including: 

- the way slavic "tribes" are represented. For a more deeper look at this topic, I strongly recommand Michel Kazanzki different works (among others) on slavics populations to see the wide variety of ethnic groups and see the evolution of so many different sedentary cultures in those regions

- the fact that Scandinavians started to visit the region and even to settle down for commercial purposes from the 6th century onwards, which means way before they started to spread westward. If you are not familiar with russian, you can have a look at Johan Callmer or Feodor Androschuk works

- we need to be very carrefull with ancient russian chronicles. In fact they were written down two centuries after the events they are depicting, based on a mix of very different sources, in order to magnify the Riurikid dynasty, which makes a lot of the ancient facts they are describing very questionable (the call for Riurik to rule the cities for example)

Of course such a format of video is for vulgarization and cannot go in such level of details. Still there is a lot of extremely cool stuff in there .

Sintashta culture.

The Sintashta people lived in the southern Urals from the end of the 3rd to the beginning of the 2nd millennium BC. e. and belonged to the Volga-Ural center of cultural genesis. It was here that in the late Bronze Age there were several discoveries that turned the life of mankind upside down. For example, horses were tamed here and the spoked wheel was invented. This led to the appearance here of chariots drawn by horses, and the appearance of the first, oldest horse bridle in the world. The oldest horse-drawn chariot (2026 BC) was found in the barrow right here.

The Urals are also rich in copper ores, which made it possible to rapidly develop bronze metallurgy in these places. Sintashta people were engaged in metal smelting in their settlements-proto-cities. The most famous is Arkaim - a fortified settlement with a diameter of about 150 m.

Gameplay part.

City centers are sources of copper

EU: Sintashta chariot. It opens earlier than ordinary chariots - in Domestication. Ranged unit. Combat strength - 21. Ability - Movement and fire. Required resources: 1 copper, 1 horse.

EQ: Arkaim. +5 production per adjacent copper source and +5 food per adjacent horse source. Counts as the 

Makers Quarter and the Farmers' Quarter. Can be freely placed

Source of information:

https://proshloe.com/volgo-uralskij-ochag-kulturogeneza.html

https://antropogenez.ru/article/1002/

I wonder who the Sintashta people became and who they are today. My guess is that they are Russians now, which would mean they could be the Ancient Era culture for Russia. 

I think I might as well add a link to this loose culture suggestion  for an Industrial or Contemporary Era Polish culture so we can keep everything grouped up.

Fullscreen_Lurker wrote:

Just found this Youtube documentary today, and I think it has a lot of ideas for creating Slavic/Russian cultures to complete Russia's timeline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHPLFHHGk-o

Here are some rough ideas I brainstormed. I have also included some quotes from the video that I think might help to find EU, EQ, Affinities and Legacy Traits for these prospective cultures:

1. Venedi (Era 2, possibly Era 1)
   • "....a people who lived primarirly along the vestula river. … they built homes, carried shields, and fought unmounted, distinguishing them from their nomadic Sarmatian neighbors."
   • "Dismissed as yet another barbarian people by the classical civilizations, the Venedi were most likely the progenitors of all of today's Slavic nations."
2. Slavs (Era 2?)
   • EU: Slavic Archer/Poison Archer (has poison attack similar to Mayan royal javelaneers)
     • "War was not uncommon, both Balts, Fins and even amongst the Slavs. They avoided pitched battles, instead fighting in dense woodlands with ample cover, while using short iron spears, heavy wooden shields, and bows nocked with poison-tipped arrows."
   • "They tended to avoid the high ground settling along rivers and lakes where water was abundant. There they build strongholds with enclosed earth and timber ramparts, wooden walls and an external ditch. These bastions were often surrounded by various peripheral villages which provided grain and livestock."
   • "Pagan Slavs saw their gods as tied intrinsically with the untamed wilderness in which they lived, and build their shrines in Oaken groves."
   • "..., the law of hospitality was the most sacred of rites to tribal Slavs. All guests were cherished without exception and any tribe who mistreated and itinerant traveler would be attacked by neighboring tribes for their dishonor."

 

A possible slavic cultures pack? It would be a nice addition but I don't think it will be the next pack of cultures, surely it would be welcome though.

Other ideas for future packs: 

Oriental cultures pack, natives culture pack (the territories of modern Canada, USA, Australia, Russia and probably other countries that I am not currently aware of, were,  and still are,  rich of native communities) and maybe an Ugro-Finnic pack (if I am correct this cultures are not Indo-European. I think that Finland and Komi's people should be two correct examples)

benblond wrote:

Feb 3, 2022, 1:02:00 PM

First I just wanted to thanks everybody for all those very interesting suggestions which we realize represent such an amount of work. I can assure you that while we are investigating and designing new cultures for future content, all your suggestions have been taken into account, and some of them gave us really good ideas. Of course I cannot say more at the moment, but thanks again, and don’t hesitate for further ones, we are always happy to hear from you.

The answer is just a couple of posts above.

In general, we have a solid group of devs regularly browsing and posting on forums, I think everyone should take that into account when typing out their messages.