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Food is OP!

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4 years ago
Apr 28, 2021, 12:18:09 PM

I just had a playthrough where I got such an Insane food production, that I gained 1 person every turn, and had like 30/21... which gave no penalties?!
Also i could just simply buy out everything I built with population.. even a Wonder wasn't a problem whatsoever... 

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4 years ago
Apr 28, 2021, 1:31:20 PM

If you focus on Industry you will just build it quickly.
If you focus on money you can just buy everything except wonders.

These three focus types seem very well balanced.

The malus from having lots of pops doing nothing is that they do nothing, it's really something to avoid.
Just build something, like districts or buildings.

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4 years ago
Apr 28, 2021, 3:42:27 PM

The combo of high Food plus buy out with Pop is interesting, for sure.  If the extra people were just hanging around, not contributing, it would be sub-optimal.  It's the ability to use the extra bodies to rush-build that makes it a viable alternative to late-game Industry or Money.  And maybe that's okay, its three different ways to benefit from excess production of different yields, and probably slightly sub-optimal to a balance of each.  If it was clearly better than excessive investment in any other yield, I'd be concerned.  Hopefully the dev team gets enough data from the OpenDev to assess this.


There's a similar interplay in the early game, too, where using Pop to build armies lets your city re-grow those Pop faster.  But I think that's working okay, because this also diverts Industry and costs a stream of Money after the armies are built.

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4 years ago
Apr 28, 2021, 5:23:54 PM

Food production have dimishing returns since the growth rate per food get lower and lower. Industry and money don't have the same dimishing returns and money also help you directly get fame stars, but so do food. Industry seems the weakest because money can do what industry does but more and have fame stars tied to it.

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4 years ago
Apr 28, 2021, 7:31:52 PM

Have to agree, industry is certainly in a worse spot compared to the buyout powers of food and money. I'd rate it Money > Food > Industry

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4 years ago
Apr 28, 2021, 8:44:16 PM
Laliloluhla wrote:

Have to agree, industry is certainly in a worse spot compared to the buyout powers of food and money. I'd rate it Money > Food > Industry

It is quite obvious, food have agarian stars, money have money stars and both can get builder stars as well directly, industry can only get the other stars indirectly which mean building stuff to produce food and money.

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4 years ago
Apr 29, 2021, 12:30:43 PM
Laliloluhla wrote:

Have to agree, industry is certainly in a worse spot compared to the buyout powers of food and money. I'd rate it Money > Food > Industry

Food has the limited power actually. The difference between 300 and 1000 industry or money is significant, while the difference between 300 and 1000 food is not so obvious cuz you still produce 1 pop per turn and you can't produce more than 1 pop per turn. Most of the districts costs -2 pop with sacrifice in mid game so you will never get agrarian stars doing it constantly.

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4 years ago
Apr 29, 2021, 12:43:53 PM

So food is OP, gold is OP and Faith certainly is OP. Influence is a giant bottleneck, especially early on. What about industry and science?

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4 years ago
Apr 29, 2021, 3:31:48 PM
Light_Spectrum wrote:
Laliloluhla wrote:

Have to agree, industry is certainly in a worse spot compared to the buyout powers of food and money. I'd rate it Money > Food > Industry

Food has the limited power actually. The difference between 300 and 1000 industry or money is significant, while the difference between 300 and 1000 food is not so obvious cuz you still produce 1 pop per turn and you can't produce more than 1 pop per turn. Most of the districts costs -2 pop with sacrifice in mid game so you will never get agrarian stars doing it constantly.

The thing is though you will consistently as agrarians always receive 1 population per turn and then the occasional boost from your ability. Along with so much food you'll be able to fire it off very consistently. This means that early on in the game, where this kind of momentum matters more, agrarian cultures can shoot out more buildings and pull ahead of industrial societies in pretty much all categories, snowballing ahead even further than them. Even later in the game the ability to buy out with population lets new cities agrarians found develop faster than those of industrialists, so there's even a use from the Early Modern era and beyond. So while it's somewhat true that food itself scales worse than industry or money, the actual benefits are far more pronounced since they kick in earlier. It's also quite easy to get agrarian stars too, even as non-agrarian cultures with proper management so that point is invalid as well.


If I were to fix this I'd have population buyout not apply any extra industry bonus, so it's a bit less industry efficient. I like that it's unlocked early and everyone could use it, but it's a bit much. This change could also allow a future agrarian culture with a Legacy Trait that improves the efficiency of pop buyout, making it closer to what we have now, but limited to one culture at a certain era.

Updated 4 years ago.
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