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Game ruined by pollution

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4 years ago
Aug 22, 2021, 7:38:04 PM
  1. Humankind difficulty, 10 players, huge map, envisioning a grand war for world domination 
  2. Snowballed early, conquered my entire start continent. 
  3. Had 10 cities, built airport and aerodrome in each.
  4. Get to fusion, renewables, nuclear -  Pollution on makers quarters is at 0, only source of pollution is airports. 
  5. Second biggest polluter at 500 per turn. Next biggest competitor is at 1200. Total worldwide is about 2500ish. 
  6. Start grand war with biggest competitor. Many fullstack armies and navies ready for a truly grand brawl with modern weapons 
  7. Game ends abruptly 2 turns later

So, with 10 airports, I managed to render earth completely uninhabitable and didn't even have the option of continuing. No option of reversing pollution other than literally paving over my entire civ with forests forever. This is extremely unrealistic. In the real world, we at least have the option of a massive war to end all mankind before our rampant climate change kills us all. Here, it's more like "Oh some inclement smog guess we're all dead now in the year 50 AD" (By the way the pacing is weird I was Australian before the birth of christ. maybe this one was anomalous but i snowballed hard enough to actually break the game in more ways than one and I feel that shouldn't be possible)

In my humble opinion, this is completely broken. Knowing that reaching endgame literally means unstoppable death by pollution with no way to prevent it other than stopping and not advancing further, and hoping the AI doesn't do so either (Fat chance), I have literally no desire to play anymore since there is essentially no endgame. 

Multiply the pollution thresholds by 10 or 20, add tech options for reversing pollution, make sure the AI actually cares about it and also reduces its pollution, and maybe don't have an abrupt no-warning game ending?

Otherwise you basically managed to trash what is otherwise a pretty fun game.

Apologies, I am upset at all of the lost hours I sank into that game only to have the fun I was setting up get denied completely arbitrarily.  
Updated 4 years ago.
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4 years ago
Aug 22, 2021, 8:37:02 PM

You have no need to say sorry, the devs need to say it to you. Releasing an untested feature. I have a very similar story, in a nut shell it ruined what was an enjoyable game (except only 2 oil spawned, which is also an issue) Pollution required for the game to end needs to be raised by 10X Id say. Despite what AOC says, we aren't near death from pollution these days, I  don't think the devs get that. There have been over 2,000 nuclear weapons tests alone... forget other forms of pollution, and guess what? I'm alive, healthy and cancer free... 

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4 years ago
Aug 22, 2021, 8:57:12 PM
Sarge232 wrote:

Or they make an Option that you can Deactivate Pollution

They should just remove that. And LATER if they wish to - add again, as a core feature of DLC (being very much "inspired" by Gathering Storm DLC for Civ) but well thought gamedesign-wise, with proper place for the mechanic in the gameplay and etc. 

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4 years ago
Aug 23, 2021, 2:55:54 AM
Logist wrote:
Sarge232 wrote:

Or they make an Option that you can Deactivate Pollution

They should just remove that. And LATER if they wish to - add again, as a core feature of DLC (being very much "inspired" by Gathering Storm DLC for Civ) but well thought gamedesign-wise, with proper place for the mechanic in the gameplay and etc. 


Agreed. Can you please not add something until it has been extensively tested? It doesn't add anything, it just permanently kills your endgame completely arbitrarily. 

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4 years ago
Aug 23, 2021, 7:32:10 AM

They completely fucked the pollution mechanic, it is the ONE THING that is making me not recommend the game at the moment, everything else they nailed very well. To not even allow an option to turn it off as a game ender is also extremely annoying to. Pollution alone is the only reason why I haven't had a chance to experience the game in it's entirety yet, they ought to get onto this issue fast, because it is very clear I am far from the only one who is extremely annoyed by it.

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4 years ago
Aug 23, 2021, 9:20:24 AM
Personally I think that the pollution mechanic adds something to the end game, it continues the whole ethos that your decisions have an impact and gives you choices to make. The fact that you can build 10 airports and aerodromes on a continent doesn't mean you should when train stations work so well and can be practically pollution free. I guess I'm saying you 'lost' because you didn't play the game in front of you.

I do however agree that an abrupt end to the game is in no one's interest, personally I would continue to ramp up the negative stability so that it becomes unmanageable and rebellions fracture the world and your civilisation. I'm not sure about turning off pollution, if does get put in I hope it turns off the ability to get achievements. 
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4 years ago
Aug 23, 2021, 9:54:27 AM
wilmo998 wrote:
Personally I think that the pollution mechanic adds something to the end game, it continues the whole ethos that your decisions have an impact and gives you choices to make. The fact that you can build 10 airports and aerodromes on a continent doesn't mean you should when train stations work so well and can be practically pollution free. I guess I'm saying you 'lost' because you didn't play the game in front of you.

I do however agree that an abrupt end to the game is in no one's interest, personally I would continue to ramp up the negative stability so that it becomes unmanageable and rebellions fracture the world and your civilisation. I'm not sure about turning off pollution, if does get put in I hope it turns off the ability to get achievements. 

That line of reasoning doesn't address the AI not caring about pollution, especially on higher difficulties with the maximum number of players. The way I see it, the only way to be 'safe' from the pollution is:


1. Build every clean energy improvement on every city

2. Kill every single AI player and destroy all of their cities 

3. Never build things like stock exchanges which cause pollution without any way to fix it. 


Otherwise the game has an enforced, inescapable ending. That really rubs me the wrong way, especially when other 4x games like Civ give you the option to continue. Hell, even Stellaris has incredibly interesting game-ending events that you can still beat without dramatically changing your approach. 


It also just seems strange to achieve something like fusion energy and then not automatically have all pollution turned off on everything. Do the devs not grasp what a truly civilization altering event real fusion energy would be? 

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4 years ago
Aug 23, 2021, 2:36:16 PM
wilmo998 wrote:
Personally I think that the pollution mechanic adds something to the end game, it continues the whole ethos that your decisions have an impact and gives you choices to make. The fact that you can build 10 airports and aerodromes on a continent doesn't mean you should when train stations work so well and can be practically pollution free. I guess I'm saying you 'lost' because you didn't play the game in front of you.

I do however agree that an abrupt end to the game is in no one's interest, personally I would continue to ramp up the negative stability so that it becomes unmanageable and rebellions fracture the world and your civilisation. I'm not sure about turning off pollution, if does get put in I hope it turns off the ability to get achievements. 

1. there are more than 10 airports in the world, so building 10 airports shouldn't make the earth uninhabitable by any stretch of the imagination. the argument of "you lost because you didn't utilize the game mechanics" is kind of moot when there are no game mechanics for addressing pollution. none. you can research nuclear fusion and build every clean energy infrastructure and still end the world because you also made a sawmill. you can't even deconstruct said sawmill if you see it ending the world unless an event fires (and heaven forbid if you build it in two different cities, only the one city will have it removed in case of an event). and no, planting trees doesn't count either, since they only do anything for one turn

2. aerodromes and airports don't serve the same purpose as trains. airports only act as ports for trade for some reason, and aerodromes are for building an air force - something that's not optional in warfare. unless you like losing wars. and even if airports served the logical purpose of ferrying troops long distances, trains still wouldn't be a suitable replacement for them. you can't take a train to a different continent. hell, there's a reason trains are such an unpopular and expensive transportation system in reality.

3. turning off achievements because people don't like having the fun sucked out of their game is a terrible design decision that devs should really stop using. I sincerely hope humankind does not forbid earning achievements while mods are enabled (not that it'd affect much considering how achievements are misfiring left and right right now. beating a game on normal gave me the achievement for beating it on humankind difficulty lol).

Updated 4 years ago.
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4 years ago
Aug 24, 2021, 12:49:49 AM
wilmo998 wrote:
Personally I think that the pollution mechanic adds something to the end game, it continues the whole ethos that your decisions have an impact and gives you choices to make. The fact that you can build 10 airports and aerodromes on a continent doesn't mean you should when train stations work so well and can be practically pollution free. I guess I'm saying you 'lost' because you didn't play the game in front of you.

I do however agree that an abrupt end to the game is in no one's interest, personally I would continue to ramp up the negative stability so that it becomes unmanageable and rebellions fracture the world and your civilisation. I'm not sure about turning off pollution, if does get put in I hope it turns off the ability to get achievements. 

Yes, pollution "adds something" to the game. Which game? Civ 6, where climate change is its own mechanic with more than one way to use for your benefit. But not Humankind.


In Humankind it isn't like that because it is obvious to anyone who heard something about gamedesign that slapping over functioning system another additional mechanic without any place in gameplay for it isn't going well usually, especially if done in the very last moment. This time wasn't an exclusion. Pollution is broken, sticks out of balance, goes against general concept of "following historical stages of development" and doesn't make gameplay anyhow deeper - just more annoying and tedious with obligatory meta-gaming of avoiding pollution at all costs. It is plainly bad gamedesign which is twice as hilarious because devs technically had the example of similar system which simply WORKED and did it well. They had ONE JOB of copypasting that system and they failed.

Updated 4 years ago.
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