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Most independent people look like purely barbarians

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4 years ago
Sep 13, 2021, 6:14:06 AM

I'd like to comment about two things about independent people: 1. they are extremely violent and not bound by any political rules; 2. they are completely useless when you proceed to classical warfare.

For the first point, I often play humankind difficulty. I do not know if it's due to the setting of difficulties, but the majority of independent people I encounter in the past few game plays are violent. They will wandering around with chariots in turn like 15 or so, attacking every unit they see and ransacking every outpost they see, which is exactly the behavior of raging barbarians we see in civ6, except that they are much more powerful than those barbarians. I know you can get culture affinity with independent people or simply bribe them. But, hey, it takes 20 turns (+3 per turn) to "tame" a violent independent people to the stage that they won't attack you, at which time they probably have happily ransacked your administrative center if you do not handle their wandering chariots. But if you have already handled their chariots, why not finish them off to solve the problem once and forever (while benefitting a free city if you have city caps available, or some money if you do not want more cities and ransacked their barbarian den). 
An extra note for the violent independent people, it seems all violent independent people are in the same boat: they never attack other independent people; if you get into conflicts with one violent independent people, all violent independent people nearly, regardless whether they are armies of the same people, can and will reinforce. To me it seems they have formed a worldwide "barbarian league" in the ancient era, quite ridiculous. If you have three violent independent people spawning adjacent to each other, congratulations, you can experience the feeling of Roman empires in it's late stages.
For the second point, at the current game, an independent people is in all ways inferior than an outpost of your own. Despite the game saying "no doubt this independent people possess sophisticated culture, language, rights , customs...", in fact these independent people have NONE of them except wandering barbaric chariots or mercenaries that are only useful in ancient eras (independent people tend to lag behind in techs starting in classical era). You want to trade with them? you better destroy them for good, as ai will assimilate them and stop your trade. You want to assimilate them? well they have a shitty city placement and districts planning, believe me you won't want their shitty cities plus it costs you influence. Just destroy them and get access to these resources with a cheap juicy outpost.

I would suggest to change the behavior of independent people in three ways:
1. They spawn units that matches the technology of the current game stage. Their technology should not exceed the best technology of all players and not behind the worst technology of all players, and the majority of their units should spawn at the technology that roughly half the players have unlocked. I do not think most players have unlocked wheels in turn 15 and yet those barbarian chariots dominate the open wild at that time, while they will use the same chariots for the next 40 turns and become completely obsolete.
2. Allow to merge mercenaries with your own armies and upgrade hired units. You can solve the problem by setting the mercenary states to individual units rather than army.
3. Make independent people UNIQUE. I would suggest each independent people provide Unique bonus to the player (or all player, if the affinity is still capped by 100) that has the highest affinity to them (like civ6 city state system), the unique bonus should be strong enough to make you keep the independent people alive rather than destroy it for good. And the player with the highest affinity can choose not assimilate the independent people and enjoy that bonus.
Updated 4 years ago.
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4 years ago
Sep 13, 2021, 9:30:08 AM

I like your idea, this is a good suggestion.
Independents pop are too strong in the early game and become insignificant in the latter part of the game.

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4 years ago
Sep 13, 2021, 1:36:39 PM

3. Make independent people UNIQUE. I would suggest each independent people provide Unique bonus to the player (or all player, if the affinity is still capped by 100) that has the highest affinity to them (like civ6 city state system), the unique bonus should be strong enough to make you keep the independent people alive rather than destroy it for good. And the player with the highest affinity can choose not assimilate the independent people and enjoy that bonus.


One thing many have said that they miss from endless legend was the unique units. I think that one simple way to improve independent people is to provide their city with two things:

  1. Make their administrative center/main plaza be able to have unique district built in that city. This reflects their culture merging into your own.
  2. Give them the ability to produce a unique unit that you can buy as mercenary.

I would add that this can give a really huge impact to the choice between half cost for mercenaries and half cost for assimilation, or better yet can serve as a follow up to that choice the same way we have for government.


I also would like to see more independent formation and relationships. For example, we can see the inclusion of world congress system, like in CIV 5.


That being said, I kind of would really like to see many of the current independents become full fledge civs, such as the:

  • Mochicas, with their brick temples
  • Scots
  • Inca Quechua (this is a pet peeve, calling the Quechua the Incas is like calling the Americans the Presidents or the Egyptians the Pharaohs)
  • Kingdom of Kongo
  • Tamil, a thalassocratic empire.
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4 years ago
Sep 13, 2021, 7:45:53 PM

I agree with chariots things. You advance to ancient era have only scouts didn't even research the calendar and independents are chasing your scouts around on chariots while the wheel won't be invented by anyone for the next 1000 years or so. If you beat the chariots why don't you salvage the wheel technology from them?


Second it, if you play on large or huge map then independent spawn like 3-4 cities around you while you barely have enough influence to promote 2nd outpost to city. Why bother? Just stalk the independents and when their outpost is promoted to city, nab it since it's unguarded and even 1 scout can net you a free city. The camp is/can be promoted to city like in 2 turns, you see empty territory move your scout to another and the next turn there is a city in there? Like what?


Third, as it was mentioned, there is no merit in leaving independents be. EIther you assimilate them or the AI does. There is no such thing as leaving independents to spawn units for you for you to hire them if your money is good and industry suck or you don't want to use your pops to make units. I liked that in ES2 once a player hit max reputation with minor faction there was no stealing, you had to go to war with them if you wanted to assimialte them and have their bonuses. It could be changed the if you want to assimilate them they would have to be in your sphere of influence or share religion with you.


ATM i would like to have option to disable them completely since many times they are simply ruining my game experience since there is like no merit in stockpiling influence to promote outpost to city since you can get easy cities by nabbing independent camps.

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