Early game territory grab/strategy

eXistenZ

Trainee

4 years ago

Sep 12, 2021, 8:20:27 PM

So I've only completed the tutorial game, and tried to start a few games on a higher difficulty, but one thing that I have trouble in deciding, is early game setup.

In Endless Legend and ES2 you expanded to the good territories as long as your happines (and your ability to defend it) would allow it, hopefully blocking off the AI and filling in the hinterland afterwards.

Now in humankind that is less valid of a strategy because of a) influence cost and b) cultural influence/dominance. The latter is also a mechanic in ES2, but comes way later into play. And offcours the idea of attaching territories is new compared to those two games. So what are the best plays/strategy really early game?

-Do you claim every territory that is adjacent to your (preffered) starting region as long as your influence allows it?

-How feasible is it to forward settle? And what do you consider a forward settle? a second outpost/city halfway between you and the AI, or just close up to the borders?

- How many territories should you attach to a city (I heard something about 2 per city)? And should you do it immediately as long as stability allows?

Scheballs

Addict

Work to make something better

Scheballs

Addict

8 300g2g pts

4 years ago

Sep 12, 2021, 9:09:46 PM

Generally yes, claim the territories surrounding your first city. Then you want to plan your 2nd city asap because you are losing out on that influence generation. I like to make sure I get some horses or a coastline. Then claim territories around that 2nd city. I like to make my cities 2 territories as soon as possible. This is usually when I plant the holy site because it's stability bonus is very helpful.

One soft rule I then follow is, choose the cheaper influence cost, attach territory to existing city (if I can afford the -20 stability) or create the 3rd city? 510 to create third city or 270 to attach third territory. Going one over the city cap is preferred because it generates more influence than it penalizes.

By this time or sooner see if you can spend the influence and claim a wonder.

If an AI is close to me I make a soft plan to outpost territories spreading away from them to give me more options in the future and try to avoid the claim near my city grievance.

eXistenZ

Trainee

eXistenZ

Trainee

4 years ago

Sep 13, 2021, 4:51:26 PM

Scheballs wrote:
Generally yes, claim the territories surrounding your first city. Then you want to plan your 2nd city asap because you are losing out on that influence generation. I like to make sure I get some horses or a coastline. Then claim territories around that 2nd city. I like to make my cities 2 territories as soon as possible. This is usually when I plant the holy site because it's stability bonus is very helpful.

One soft rule I then follow is, choose the cheaper influence cost, attach territory to existing city (if I can afford the -20 stability) or create the 3rd city? 510 to create third city or 270 to attach third territory. Going one over the city cap is preferred because it generates more influence than it penalizes.

By this time or sooner see if you can spend the influence and claim a wonder.
If an AI is close to me I make a soft plan to outpost territories spreading away from them to give me more options in the future and try to avoid the claim near my city grievance.

So what be your play in this situation, which is a bit like my original start (me being blue). I went for C3 to make a second city immediately, to block off the AI, but the influence cost to turn it into a city was pretty high, and the outposts I connected got converted pretty soon as well

Erindel

Newcomer

Erindel

Newcomer

9 100g2g pts

4 years ago

Sep 14, 2021, 10:28:35 AM

My take on this (playing on humankind difficulty): in your position and considering you are in the early ancient era.

1. Limit AI expansion: send a stack of 3 scouts to the area around B1 to prevent the AI to claim more territories. Wait for the AI to claim, then go pillage it before it is integrated into his city (otherwise you'll need to delcare a surprise war), go do the same to A5 and repeat. The AI cannot handle armies with more than 3 units in them until the classical era (they remain at 2 units per stack max), which allows you to kill anything he sends at you. Be ready to have other units around exploring, to replace that 3 stack so that you can send it back to your territory to heal if needed. A smaller ennemy also means your territories will nto be converted, quite the opposite.

2. Grab good territories : with the time you gained by annoying the AI, claim adjacent territories to E2, in particular D3 or D2 and any nearby resources. Do not go and claim C3 immediately. Wait until you attach D3/D2 to E2 and then claim C3, the influence cost will be reduced because you will claiming an area adjacent to your city (an outpost does not count for adjacency, but an attached territory does).

3. Your 2nd city: you have 2 choices : pay the price for C3 to become a city, or grab an independent city which has probably popped nearby. This choice depends on how soon you founded your capital. If you did it very early, pay the influence cost. Independent cities (light blue color) pop shortly after hostile armies start to roam the map (10 turns or so in the ancient era) and always start at 0 pop which means a scout can win the siege automatically if you attack within 5 turns of its creation. If you delayed your culture choice to get more scouts during the neolithic, it is very likely than an independent will pop soon within 2 squares from C3, so take it and attach C3 to it. You will not get the "ideal" city position, but you will be able to grab and attach more territories to both E2 and your new city from the influence you saved (especially if you took the -50% outpost cost civic, which you should). Sometimes the indep. city will pop way off like in E5 or A3. In that case, contnue to harass the AI will grabbing C3 as an outpost only if it has resources, but still go for the E5/A3 city, it's more important to have a free city than a good position.

I almost never found any city other than my first one, i just claim as many territories as possible and attach them to either my capital or a conquered independent. If you have no luck and no independent popped nearby, it usually means that you have a lot of free space (independents pop between player cities) around you and you can then do as explained above : priority to get your capital to 2 territories, create 2nd city and attach territory to it, attach 3rd territory to capital, then 3rd territory to 2nd city. After that, you really should have new independent cities to grab.

Updated 4 years ago.

eXistenZ

Trainee

eXistenZ

Trainee

4 years ago

Sep 15, 2021, 9:52:03 PM

Im not really the conquering type, but I'll keep in mind to lock territories earlly and prevent expansion.

isnt it a good thing in general to quickly get a second city up for the influence generation?

Erindel

Newcomer

Erindel

Newcomer

9 100g2g pts

4 years ago

Sep 16, 2021, 1:53:14 PM

iirc, your first new city costs 320 influence. It will generate 4/turn immediately by buying the pottery shop, plus 2/turn/population, plus any emblematic district generation. So you will not get a return on investment for at least 20 turns, however it will help getting your aesthete stars quicker. That's why getting a free independent city is so good.

Pdraggy

Fresh

Resistance is futile

Pdraggy

Fresh

7 300g2g pts

4 years ago

Sep 22, 2021, 10:54:49 PM

if I can I like to cordon off a peninsula for only me than fill it in later, not too much later, but it gives me a little bit of time before other civs get the abilty to embark.

eXistenZ

Trainee

eXistenZ

Trainee

4 years ago

Sep 28, 2021, 7:38:28 AM

So had a restart and managed to produce more influence, so that even closer to a capital I didnt get overwhelmed.

What I dont get is the cost calculation for outposts and turning into cities. First was free, second one 160, and the third would be 510?

CheekyM0nk3y

Newcomer

CheekyM0nk3y

Newcomer

1 600g2g pts

4 years ago

Oct 5, 2021, 8:27:16 PM

eXistenZ wrote:
So had a restart and managed to produce more influence, so that even closer to a capital I didnt get overwhelmed.

What I dont get is the cost calculation for outposts and turning into cities. First was free, second one 160, and the third would be 510?

Yes the cost scales up rather quickly. There is no need to create a city with influence past the 2nd city. Just take any additional cities from IP or AI cultures. You can often get IP cities without even a fight when they are still at 0 population.

HumanKid

Newcomer

HumanKid

Newcomer

1 800g2g pts

4 years ago

Oct 8, 2021, 7:53:09 PM

CheekyM0nk3y wrote:
eXistenZ wrote:
So had a restart and managed to produce more influence, so that even closer to a capital I didnt get overwhelmed.

What I dont get is the cost calculation for outposts and turning into cities. First was free, second one 160, and the third would be 510?
Yes the cost scales up rather quickly. There is no need to create a city with influence past the 2nd city. Just take any additional cities from IP or AI cultures. You can often get IP cities without even a fight when they are still at 0 population.

you don't need to captured ill placed grey cities: just liberate a well placed outpost of your own: it will be a size 0 city the next turn named "NEW [your capital name]" and then capture it after it builds it first extractor. you can liberate again, for it to build another extractor/district and recapture it several times without effort as long as it doesn't grow. it's usually a waste after it builds a (mostly useless) market quarter

liberation can be done while the outpost is still being built, so you can proceed when its one turn away to completion for max speed

this strategy can not be done during neolithic though but you can liberate your second and third claimed outpost on the first turn of ancient

it's always useful to keep in mind that the third territory claim cost 60 as long as your capital isn't built, so you can get a cheap 3rd outpost on the very first turn of ancient if you time it right

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