Vassals stealing their liege's population / Vassals are broken/useless...?

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Kubusta

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Kubusta

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Kubusta

Friend

19 400g2g pts

3 years ago

Apr 26, 2021, 8:21:33 AM

Dear all,

I've experienced the following situation and it made me think more about the whole vassals mechanics and how they need A LOT of improvement.

After a few turns when I built my first capital, Harrapans (AI) settled like +- 8 tiles from me - I wanted to make an alliance with them, but they refused and soon enough they "surprised war" me. I defeated them, could not capture their capital (Why there is NO elimination in this game? - you'll see how it might be problematic) so I decided to make them my vassal.

So it began - after a few turns a notification appeared saying: "Your population has migrated to Harrapa" - so I checked my capital and I had 1 pop out of 6 I had just a turn before.. WHY? I had my influence over them (even before going to war with them), I had religion influence over them... and yet, they stole my population... after 5 turns or so, again... and again.. the whole game, they were stealing my population so when I finally got to 18 pops somehow, they reduced me in +- 5 turns to 2 pops.. What?? Why? How? What can I do to prevent it? They also constantly spammed how they hate me - what can I do to please them? Or to punish them and stop them from doing that?

So I went to war with another empire -> defeated them -> peace -> my vassal immediately declares war on me - "surprise war".. so I managed to defeat them as well, even though it was a costly win and guess what, I could not do anything again.. I could just force them to keep them as my vassal. So be it - and then they immediately steal my population the following turn.. So then I am like "let's give them freedom and I'll conquer them when I can't annex them diplomaticaly" (please, do add Annex mechanic). - so after +-20 turns, I went to war with my ex-vassal - now free empire - defeated them and..? Can't do anything again, since that Harrapa city is their only city so I can either vassalise them, or white peace them basically.. and no matter what I choose, they will immediately steal my population again..

.. This was very frustrating experience for me and even though it might be a bug that they could do that so often, I do think there are a few points that should be added to the game or at least considered:

A) Annexing your vassals after meeting certain criteria (like having influence / religion etc. domination over them)
B) Elimination of players if they only have one city left and they are just weak / useless and causing problems - and blocking your expansion somewhere
C) Mechanics to manage your vassals - from pleasing them, helping them grow, giving orders during war (at least if they should protect your empire or attack an enemy) to punishing them if they rebel against their liege and fail, etc..

I will be glad to see any comments to my thoughts.

Thanks

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VIPNarcisse

Master Spy

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VIPNarcisse

Master Spy

33 900g2g pts

3 years ago

Apr 26, 2021, 9:37:01 AM

I think than there is an issue with how is calculated the charging bar of some affinity abilities. Which allow some Ai to spam the culture bomb of aesthete, or the stealing populations of agrarian.

I think than they are aware, but your feedback is always welcome to remember this annoying issue than I can confirm, because I experienced it.

When it will be fixed (how is charging these ability bars), it should maybe be okay, and you will no more worry about how to prevent it.

Allowing the liege to choose one constraint among multiple ones in diplomatic panel could be an interesting idea, as : "don't use your affinity on me" / "don't cross my border" / "don't convert me" etc.

But no all options should be allowed in same time imo, to let to the vassal the opportunity to rebel and make a come back.

For the rest, vassals are highly advantageous,even too much. They give a really high amount of money, give access to all their ressources, vision, free borders passage etc.

Maybe vassals should give some small % of their fame ? So even if they are able to rebel, a liege will be more inclined to keep them ?

I hope than Vassals treaties will be extented, I don't know what are the plan about that. But vassals concept having a great potential imo, it would be a pity to not have some additionnal interactions to enjoy this novelty.

Not fan of the automatic elimination of a player when he only have one city left. Eventually It should be available by a specific grievance and by sending an army, to give a chance to the player to defend its city. And anyway, he should always be able to settle elsewhere if he add some units left. I'm fine with Humankind trying something else than the total extermination of cultures.

I mean, a vassal don't stop your expansion, because basically he belong to your empire. There is just some annoying issues right now. But they give good potential of scenario of revolts, rebellion, player come back, for exemple..

Updated 3 years ago.

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FaeBriona

Haunt Enthusiast

Those who do not wander are lost.

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FaeBriona

Haunt Enthusiast

29 800g2g pts

3 years ago

Apr 26, 2021, 12:23:16 PM

The inability to completely eliminate an empire is annoying, and historically inaccurate.

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Sarge232

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Sarge232

Newcomer

2 300g2g pts

3 years ago

Apr 26, 2021, 3:56:52 PM

FaeBriona wrote:
The inability to completely eliminate an empire is annoying, and historically inaccurate.

Thats True i hop they will Fixed that!

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RJDorkbard

Chief Officer

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RJDorkbard

Chief Officer

15 400g2g pts

3 years ago

May 12, 2021, 11:00:36 AM

I find the inability to wipe a defeated opponent of the map annoying too.

The cities you take can always rebel later ( with diminishing likelihood as time passes)

Giving Vassals conditions could be fun... "Build me 3 archers" or "do this every turn for x turns .. oh and this oh and this" maybe with a thanks ya free now or not.

Updated 3 years ago.