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Harbour Rework (repost from Naval Feedback)

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3 years ago
May 2, 2021, 1:22:15 AM

As asked in the Discord, I'm picking my comment on Harbours, expanding it, and reposting it here so it can be better discussed. While the Harbour limit of 1 harbour per territory was a good addition to Victor, I feel (and others in discord whom I shall now summon like Ringo and 8houses) that it can be at the same time too restrictive and not restrictive enough. Using harbour EQs to circumvent that change throws a wrench into balancing (since most "per harbour" infraestructures must be balanced around the harbour limit, and having twice or triple harbours per territory can make those infraestructures too strong), and the strict 1 harbour per territory lower the importance of coastal tiles and thus Naval gameplay. Thus, in order to help make Naval aspects of the game more important, here's the idea for making Harbours (and thus Naval gameplay) more interesting and varied:


1) Split the Basic Harbour district into two separate districts, the Port and the Shipyard. The summary of their abilities is described below:

Generic Harbour Traits (applies to all harbours): May only be built on Coastal Water; -10 stab to city or outpost; Allow units to embark without penalties; Receives all bonuses from harbour infrastructures; Can allow districts to be built from it (like the Hamlet); Can't be built over the territory's Harbour cap (more on that later).

Port Traits: Exploits food/science up to 2 tiles away; +3 money to adjacent Market Quarters.

Shipyard Traits: Exploit no tiles; +2 production per adjacent coastal water tiles; +3 research to adjacent Research Quarters; Functions as a naval unit spawn.

EQ Harbour Traits: Exploits food/science up to 2 tiles away; +3 money to adjacent Market Quarters; +3 research to adjacent Research Quarters; Functions as a naval unit spawn; Any extra traits based on the EQ (Money for Haven, Industry for Cothon, Food for Naust, etc).

2) Create a "territory harbour cap". You start the game being able to build 1 harbour (either Port, shipyard or EQ harbour) per territory, then at Foreign Outposts (late classical) you would increase the limit by +1, and at either Naval Artillery (early E. Modern) or Seafaring Mastery (late Medieval) you would increase the limit by +1 again, making you be able to field at maximum 3 harbours (between Ports, Shipyards and EQ harbours) per territory.

3) Allow ships (not embarked units) to ransack districts adjacent to the coast, and give the Early Modern Carrack and Man'o'War the bombardment ability (or a weaker version of it).

4) Add the following ability to Propeller (early Industrial Tech): "Canals: allow you to move ships between two different harbours in the same territory in the same way a shed moves troops", preferably with a little canal visual built between your harbours in the same territory like the railroad is built between sheds.



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3 years ago
May 2, 2021, 1:26:40 AM

One problem with this might be that districts have been somewhat simplified - so let me check if this is right.

2 separate buildings?

Port - food district.

Shipyard - wealth district.


Even having one extra district type seems strong I don't why they wouldn't remain limited at one. I couldn't quit think of the numbers for the changes / nerfs but my two ideas were something like this: reduced range of collection without the supporting infrastructure. A penalty to terrain bonuses for every additional type of resource being collected. Effectively going with harbor EQ spam is self limiting from 'over fishing'. 



Updated 3 years ago.
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3 years ago
May 2, 2021, 1:34:00 AM

Idea is the Port to be the "civilian" district with bonuses to growth and adjacency to Markets (to simulate trade). The shipyard would be the "military" one with production (and a spawn point) and adjacency to Research (the other base FIMS district whose main adjacency is other districts, not exploitations).

 

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3 years ago
May 2, 2021, 1:51:31 AM

As we've discussed extensively on Discord, I really like this idea as I think those are two of the pieces we lack to make coastal play more attractive. Having two kind of harbors mean you can balance the two independantly. Having a shipyard means you can have better yields with less tiles which is perfect for coastal building and small-medium islands. It also mean we can get infrastructure for the shipyard like for example an infrastructure giving xp on naval unit like we have for land unit, separating land and naval unit for these kind of bonuses would be a bit harder for the dev but for the player it would make chosing between naval and land play a more interesting decision. 


Overall I find it to be an excellent idea and I really hope the dev will pick up on it and give us more harbors, be it only the shipyard or a few more.


Still on the subject of coastal/naval gameplay there are a few things that could be done to make it more attractive, from puting more luxuries in the water to giving us better infrastructure or even quarter that work with water tiles (be it quarter that are put ON water or quarter that need to be adjacent to water). 

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3 years ago
May 2, 2021, 4:19:29 AM

I don't want to add to many "unnecessary" districts to the game, and I don't think the devs do either, but I certainly thinking the game could do with more than a single type of naval district. Even the naval EQs are just replacements of the Harbor, except for the Floating Market. 


Shipyards being the Naval Unit Spawn makes sense narratively, but in this game land units spawn from garrisons, military quarters that give them bonuses. Gameplaywise, having naval units spawn on Shipyards is kind of like having land units spawn on Maker's Quarters (assuming shipyards are Industry quarters like suggested).


I would have the food and some perhaps some flat money generation be the responsibility of a Fishery district, while a Port district allows naval Trade routes and is limited to one per territory. A separate Naval Base district could serve as the Naval Unit Spawn, and give bonus CS to adjacent units, mirroring the garrison. The Phoenician Haven can be a Port with bonuses to trade, and the Carthaginian Cothon a Naval Base with money/trade bonuses, or a Port with military bonuses. The Norse Naust, well, naust apparently just means boathouse, which technically couldn't even go on the water, so a fishery to match it's food bonuses I guess.

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3 years ago
May 5, 2021, 10:36:50 AM

I really like the idea, and at the same time, I feel it's too much of micro-management and brings even more districts to build (there are already a lot of them).


I'm mixed-feeling about the 1 harbor/territory. I actually think it makes more sense, compared to Lucy. But realistically speaking, being able to build many of those districts in your city territories feels weird actually. Harbors are pretty huge and expensive infrastructures to build and maintain. I'm more concerned about it being not build-off-able until mid-Medieval with Hamlets. But at the same time, it means that it needs to be defended, if located outside of city's fortifications.


If we're still allowed to build-off of them with greater synergies to balance them with their related infrastructures, and if the game incentivizes players (and hopefully AI) to build fleets to defend those quarters, I think that would solve the issue.

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