Once more unto the breach.

Due to a variety of factors, I was unable to fully experience the Victor OpenDev as I have previous OpenDevs. So, God willing, this will be pleasantly shorter than my previous two OpenDev reviews.

On Stuff I Liked!

Because you asked us to tell you about the stuff we really like.

I really like tying the Neolithic Legacy Trait to scavenger hunting 10 science curiosities! 

I like the change to Market Quarters getting adjacency bonuses from themselves because you kind of already clump them together around Luxury resources and against harbors, I'm not so big on the Scientist one though, as clumping together the rather distinct looking science quarters together looks rather strange. If science quarters had a few more variations of appearance, then perhaps it would look a little bit better.

Similar to the above, I quite like the loosening of the definition of some districts, from specifically "Farmer's Districts" to "Food Districts" and the like to accommodate adjacency and the like.

Loving the details and upgraded outfits that we saw in Lucy. Humankind is a dress up game after all.

On Stuff I Disliked

The change to display territory names that are not viewable to the player character is an unbelievably bad move. If the decision to use territory names over the previous version is kept, either a way to easily access and view what a territory's base name is or a magnifying glass to center the background camera on the specific territory is going to be near mandatory.

The reduction of districts that have "build-off-ability" is a little annoying.

Harbors going from as many as you could muster to one per territory certainly shook me a bit. It feeds into my talk on the "Harbor problem" but it's just kind of a wild change I'm not a fan of.

I find the decision to stop players from removing other civilizations from the game early on to be a mixed bag. I get it, but at the same time, forcing to keep the AI around can be rather infuriating.

On Changes from Lucy

Generally, I think the majority of the changes made from Lucy to Victor are for the better, everything is shaping up quite nicely I feel. I am very excited to see what the next few months bring us all.

On Build-Off-Able Districts

Build-Off-Ability is the term I've used to describe what districts are able to be built off of. As of Lucy, we were able to build off... Basically anything. City Centers, Administration Centers, Luxury and Strategic Resources when extractors were put on them, Harbors, Garrisons, Hamlets, Wonders, Holy Sites, placeable-anywhere EQs, and I think that's all.

As of Victor we can now only build off City Centers, Administration Centers, and Hamlets. 

This is incredibly limiting to what we were able to do in Lucy, however, as I understand it, it's not working properly, and we are supposed to be allowed to build off these things if they fall within the "city limits," which does alleviate my disappointment somewhat. However, I very much wish harbors had not been excluded from this selection. I'll get into greater detail with this in the following section, but essentially, denying us the ability to build around harbors hurts archipelagos when settled, as there's nothing that can be built on those one tile islands that isn't a garrison or a hamlet as of now. 

So in the end, I suppose I support this, presuming that the aforementioned districts, once being put within city limits are considered build-off-able and harbors regain their status as build-off-able. 

On Navies and the Harbor Problem

I suppose the main issue I had trying to test the naval capacities of Victor was that the AI didn't really build all that many boats. Over the many games I played, I think the most I ever saw beyond the transport ships, I saw a Cog once.

I personally find the ship variety of Humankind to be personally a little wonky. There is no ranged ship until the Carrack in the Early Modern, and it costs a saltpeter. I would move the Carrack to the end of the Medieval Era and remove it's saltpeter requirement as well as nerf the damage a bit, that way there is an easily affordable ranged option for all cultures to use, so not everyone without saltpeter is stuck with Cogs and Caravels. Then I would insert a new ship, the Galleon, into the Early Modern Era, and basically make it the old Carrack. Then I don't think it's as dramatic a move from Carrack to Man o' War in the naval department.

Ships aside for a moment, the sudden limiting of harbors means there is less for early navies to do during war. You build a few Quadriremes and sail them over to that guy you're at war with, and you ransack his one harbor. Nice. You sure messed up his trade routes! But now what's the navy going to do...? Sit there and watch? They can't really assist with the combat until the Carrack. Now, if there were more harbors to ransack, that would be a use for them. Similarly, I think naval units would see some more use from players if in addition to being able to ransack harbors, they were able to ransack land tiles as well, simply land tiles they are adjacent too, one tile inward. This of course would work better if harbors got their build-off-ability returned to them, as currently harbors are very lonely off the coasts, oftentimes quite far from any other quarters.

On the subject of more Harbors, a way to alleviate the lack of harbors would be to grant us 1 harbor per era on a territory, perhaps? They would remain limited in a sense, stopping us from making every coastal spot a harbor, but granting us more opportunities to get use out of them and create more targets for raiding. If I were to pick the Phoenicians, I would get the Haven and the Ancient Harbor, then in the Classical as the Romans, I would get the Classical Harbor, and so on. Harbors are such a nice district for food and important for trade, they should be a primary target for cultures at war with one another with navies, requiring them to build up their own defensive navy, or some ranged units to dissuade them.

There is, of course, a more forceful way to get players and AI alike to build up some boats. Early on it could be the enigmatic Sea Peoples, but Pirates are also an excellent option. As long as the sea has given people the opportunity to make money, there have been pirates. The Pirate would be a variation on independent people, who can still spawn on outlying island territories and send their aggressive units on transport ships to raid your harbors and the like, but the pirates would be without a true port to call home. They'd sail the seas, traveling from culture to culture, ransacking ports and any unprotected coastal quarters, then move onto the next one unless dealt with. Defeating pirate vessels in combat grants military stars of course, but could also grant some amounts of money. Around the Early Modern Era, when Pirates move to Privateers, either by civic or by tech, the player would receive the ability "Letters of Marque" which would allow them to "recruit" the privateers in the same way that you recruit the armies of an Independent People.

Moving away from pirates, another reason to get players to build up navies is to make islands more worthwhile by decreasing the amount of luxuries that spawn on the "mainland" and increasing the number of luxuries that spawn on islands. This benefits merchants by making them more valuable trade partners in the early game, and encourages settling islands for the resources on them. A bit extreme, but a possible idea.

Additionally, I believe this was PARAdoxiBLE’s idea, but I love it so much I felt the need to post it here as well. One of the biggest detriments to early naval exploration in the early game is not being able to pass through the AI’s coastal territory. The buffs to the early naval units' survivability in deep water has made it easier, but still, often they’ll be near death as ever if they’re able to reach a coastal tile again on the other side of the territory, presuming there isn’t another claimed coastal tile on the other side, of course, in which case, good-bye ship. But what if coastal tiles could be sailed through without detriment until an era where proper enforcement of naval borders becomes available? Say perhaps Seafaring Mastery in the Medieval or Three Masted Ships in the Early Modern? This allows easier exploration of the coasts from Ancient to the mid-Medieval. Not sure how feasible the idea is, but I think it would certainly help with the early naval aspects.

My Ideas for Naval Solutions, in short:

Less Harbors mean less stuff for boats to ransack, so increase the number of harbors we get, possibly an additional one per era per territory.

Ships should be able to ransack coastal quarters because they can only ransack harbors (limited), coastal luxuries (rare) and water wonders (rare and can be built in lakes). 

Add a Pirate pseudo-Independent People to pillage the seas and make naval life troubling for those without navies to deal with them that can later be turned into Letter of Marque'ed privateers.

Possibly decreasing the amount of luxuries that spawn on the "mainland" and increasing the amount that spawn on islands and the "new world" to encourage taking charge of the wealth for oneself.

Make naval borders open to all until it becomes feasible to enforce them in the Medieval or Early Modern. 

Not quite within the scope of what I believe the harbor problem is, but Bruno from the Discord posted a particularly interesting idea, splitting up harbors into three different types, shipyard for industry and science, ports for commerce and money, and fisheries for food, among some other nice ideas. You can find it here.

On Trade

We definitely need a "trade route overview" so we can see in one place who's bought what and where that trade route is going, which luxuries are being suspended from the global market, all that jazz.

Additionally some clarity as to why certain trades have been suspended or unavailable would be nice.

On Influence

A lot of people seem to think Influence doesn't have much use after you've stopped expanding yourself and turned to expanding via conquest in the midgame. While I'm sure multiple uses for the stuff are in the works, perhaps one way influence can be used is to act as a deal sweetener? If say, you really need Open Borders from the Poles, but they hate your Mughal guts, you could tack on an amount of influence to sort of show off diplomatic prowess of your culture's diplomats to increase the chances of the offer being accepted, since you probably don't want to have it outright force the treaty adjustment. The more influence spent, the more it increases the odds of success.

Could also perhaps pay a lump sum of influence to reopen treaty negotiations immediately after one is accepted, since it normally makes you wait five turns.

On Vassalization

I had more time testing vassalization and its effects than I did naval combat, unfortunately.

The system still needs work, that's for certain.

You should only be able to vassalize your opponent in a war that you yourself declared. Often I would have other cultures declare war on me, and then after successfully defending my territory after a few assaults and crushing their armies in the fields of war, I would get to vassalize them, despite not stepping a foot in their lands. In addition to starting the war, you could also require a certain percentage of their territories be taken before that becomes available.

There needs to be a way to directly give commands and demands to a vassal you have control over. Vassal uses their affinity ability to keep pop stealing or culture bombing your territories? You should be able to command them to stop. They take a territory you want? Demand they hand it over. If they refuse, you should still be able to generate war score against them to war with them again for being a poor vassal, and the like.

The amount of money a vassal pays as tribute is a bit much in the early game, perhaps it could increase in the amount paid over the course of the tech tree?

Fighting a culture who is vassalized by someone else automatically peaces you with the culture you were fighting against, war over, no ifs, ands, or buts. It feels really bad. At the very least you should get a grievance for a large sum of money from the new liege.

Vassalizing someone with vassals should give you the option to free their vassals from vassalage or instead make them your vassals. I vassalized a fellow who had two vassals, one of which had been a good trade partner of mine and I couldn't seem to free him from vassalage to his master who had me for a master. It was kind of odd.

Perhaps Vassalization should come at a tech requirement? Maybe Imperial Power in the Classical? It just feels a bit weird during the ancient to be able ot waltz inside an unpopulated city and next turn leave with them as my vassal. 

On Pacing and Science

The pacing in Victor felt pretty wacky, and that I feel was due to science. If I wasn't focusing on science, I was often moving into the next era with the other AIs having just started researching the technologies at the beginning of the previous era's tech tree. Even if I did build some science quarters, this didn't seem to help all too much. If I picked the absurdly broken religious tenet that granted 1 science per follower, the pacing felt at least a little bit better to me.

I think this can be alleviated in a few ways, the first of which would be to increase the amount of era stars required to move into the next era. Currently there are 21 potential stars an era, and the game only requires 8, slightly more than a third of the total stars. I think moving this up to 9 or 10 stars may do wonders. Secondly just fiddling with the science numbers required per tech would certainly help. Additionally for new players, maybe if a technology is taking a really long time to learn, a tip could pop up telling them to slot some population into researcher jobs?

Additionally, before I have described moving into the next era as a "delicate dance." You need to know when to make your move. Stay in the current era and eek out more fame, or move into the next era and grab the culture you want before anyone else can nab it. The way the AI played in Victor, it didn't seem nearly as delicate a dance. It seemed like a bum rush into the next era. Most AI seemed to move immediately into the next era whenever they got the chance. If this were adjusted, the dance may possibly be restored.

I think City Centers should be able to exploit science again, since there's very little in way of science for non-scientist cultures until you start throwing around Science Quarters in the Classical or use your religion to get some science, or you were lucky enough to fine 10 ancient era curiosities and snag Astronomy as your Neolithic Legacy Trait. 

On Religion

I feel like religion is close to hitting it's basic stride, it just needs a bit more time in the oven and some more tenet adjusting.

Since Holy Sites are sites of major importance, I recommend limiting them to one per territory, similar to EQs.

The "1 x per follower" tenets could be dropped to "0.5 x per follower" to make them less powerful, however "less powerful" is still powerful. Hell, if that's not enough, maybe something like "1 per 5 followers" or something.

Donate Generously grants +3 Holy Sites, compared to the smaller effects of the others and an additional Holy Site. Dropping 1 of the 3 so it's just 2 and nothing more still makes this a very appealing option.

On Wonders

The Wonders Themselves:

The Colossus of Rhodes' art got fixed, and I'm very happy to see it! It's always been my favorite of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. Still could use a buff though, though perhaps I am undervaluing its ability. 

The Hanging Gardens of Babylon got its description updated so now it properly says it's an early Wonderous Manufactory, but new players aren't going to have any idea what that means. Hopefully it'll be an easy look up in the game's not-Civilopedia. 

The Taj-Mahal still lacks the definition of what a "reliable" city is. Nor have I noted any other particular place that uses the term? But I suppose I could be blind. 

Wonder Placements:

Not on the specific requirements of placement, but rather on the "where" of putting down the wonder. Wonders work adjacent tiles so you don't necessarily want to have them in your cities, as this would also hamper city planning with the honey bunches of districts. Certain wonders are really just relegated to the spot where they won't get in the way the most times. JNR13 in the Discord however suggested an interesting idea to change this, why not allow wonders to act as a "wildcard district" that provide the relevant adjacency to the districts they are adjacent to, essentially acting as a farmer's/maker's/market/science quarter?

On Cultures

In General

Based on the changes I've observed since the Lucy OpenDev, I am quite pleased on the culture front. The eras feel a lot better and those particular gulfs between the good and bad have certainly gotten less gulfy, as there are still some gulfs.

I’m really only going to mention the cultures I have additional stuff to say about them, so if a culture isn’t talked about in the following section, it’s probably because I’m anywhere from “Indifferent” to “I like them.”

Outfits!

The further improvement of the various culture outfits is really quite wonderful. The deviations and the doo-dads really make each one feel quite distinct. I am quite excited to see how they will all look when the game is released, especially the Industrial and Contemporary Eras. Humankind is, after all, a dress up game first and foremost.

On Ancient Cultures

The Ancient Era feels pretty good. I liked that the faith was removed from the early EQs, puts everyone on a more equal playing field for religion and the like. Olmecs are probably still the best, and the three martial cultures, Assyrians, Hittites and Mycenaeans, lack a bit due to the ancient primarily being for set up, and these three lack any particular bonuses towards that with their forts. However, that isn’t too big of a penalty I think, simply the old risk and reward.

Assyrians:

I find the Assyrians fine. Their LT is a bit simple, but I don’t think it’s bad. It just needs its name changed from Siege Masters to something else. Or you could bring back the old Assyrian LT of providing two free siege engines at the start of a siege. It was unique and flavorful, but unfortunately lost its use at the end of the Early Modern. However, the Hunnic LT also loses out in effectiveness once cavalry stops being a thing in the Industrial (Except for France I suppose). I think that’s just something that needs to be considered when weighing your choices in the Ancient Era.

Egyptians:

I grew to like the Egyptians a great deal, their LT is great for granting some early production to help you push out districts in the early game. I’d say they’re probably one of my favorite cultures of the Ancient.

Harappans:

Similar to the Egyptians, I grew to like the Harappans a lot more, since the LT is nice for getting some extra pop going. The Canal District’s description is a bit odd at first glance, I think it should say “+1 Food on neighboring Districts producing Food” to clear that up a bit. For a culture whose real life counterparts apparently didn’t war much, the Harappans are one of the best early combatants in the game with their incredibly powerful Runner EU, which is pretty wild.

Hittites:

Like the Assyrians, the LT is simple but quite good. A flat +1 to Combat Strength looks pretty weak but it’s actually pretty nice. I know their prior LT, +25 war support when war was declared is on part with the bonus given by the Forbidden City. If the current LT is simply a placeholder for something else down the line, perhaps a better LT, more fitting with the name, increases the amount of war desire gained from grievances by somewhere from 25% to 50% percent? A lust for war indeed.

Olmecs:

The Olmecs continue their reign as probably the best Ancient Era culture, as their whole thing revolves around food and influence, two of the most important early stats, especially if you picked up the Astronomy Neolithic LT.

Phoenicians:

The Phoenician LT is still a weaker version of the Carthaginian LT, and the Discord seems intent to change it into something else. Many of them lobby for a sort of defensive LT to help them against aggressive cultures with land based EUs. It's a valid worry, I suppose.

One of the other ideas from the Discord, one that I agree with most heartily, are changes to the EU and EQ.

For the EQ, it should be unlocked upon selecting the Phoenicians, and not unlocked at the Fishing technology. The Haven retains it's "harbor expensiveness" so I don't see how making them rush Fishing is fair compared to how every other culture gets their EQs immediately. 

For the EU, the Bireme could be made into an early transport vessel in the same vein as the Norse Langskip, thus allowing the Phoenicians not only to explore the waters and meet new trade partners, but to also do some early nearby island expansion, which would be quite appropriate for them historically, I think.

On Classical Cultures

A lot of the Classical Cultures are feeling a lot better now! Really there are only two cultures that I find lackluster in the era, but many very good cultures. The gulf between them is unfortunately a bit wide.

Achaemenid Persians:

Should still be the Persians and the Industrials should be Iran.

Anyway how about that Satrap’s Palace? For the Expansionist, the Satrap’s Palace is a perfect building, producing a good amount of influence for city making and territory attaching and making money for funding everything else! The +3 money per trade route is pretty wild, the money per trade route normally being affixed to infrastructures or in Lucy’s case, the VOC Warehouse, which now sports a +1 Money per pop. thing, which… I don’t get. If anything, I think the Satrap’s Palace should get the money per pop, as that to mean seems to display well run governance and taxation, rather than money per trade route.

The Immortal really has grown on me, I’m a big fan of these defensive dudes.

Aksumites:

I think the LT could use a bit more elaboration exactly what it does, as I don’t even quite know what exactly it does.

The Great Obelisk got some nice buffs! With how little the AIs fought back religiously in Victor, these bad boys were producing loads of money throughout the eras.

I ended up picking the Aksumites more than I thought I would, and not just for the Money Line this time. Very good work on their changes!

Carthaginians:

LT is still too good in my opinion. Changing the Phoencian’s and dropping this down to 20/25% would probably feel a lot more balanced and bring them in line with some of the other cultures.

The War Elephant has been brought back in line and is no longer just a better early knight, thank god. They’re easier to combat now, and we need all the help we can against these guys.

Who doesn’t love the Cothon?

Celts:

I love the Celts. So much food. So delicious. The Gaesati is a great side grade, and I’m a big fan of the new Nemeton changes. Still think it could use a single researcher slot to represent the druid, but it’s fine.

And maybe I was just unlucky with the music, but I didn’t hear my Skye Boat song. Where’d it go?

Goths:

I don’t like the Goths. Their LT feels weak as most of the time my ransacking during Victor seemed to consistently last 7 turns for most things, even with the Goths selected. The LT could use something else to it I think, like the current Mycenaean LT.

The Gothic Cavalry is now easier to construct, personally I’d have done 2 horses 1 iron as opposed to the other way around, and it’s combat strength was brought to be more in line with the rest of the era. Feels better all around, a worth upgrade to the Assyrian Raider.

The Tumulus is still pretty lame. From +2 Faith and +2 Influence to +3 Faith and +3 Influence. It needs some more pizazz. Maybe just a +25 gold on ransack like the Norse Naust. Maybe +1 combat strength for units produced in a city with a Tumulus. Could make the +3 Faith/Influence per territory on the city like the Mayan and Umayyad’s EQs.

Greeks:

I like the Amphitheatron change, the stats are much more in line with science generation. I find it funny that while the Greeks got this change, the Zhoul didn’t even get a token +1 influence on their Confucian School.

Huns:

The Huns are still pretty terrifying, especially in the hands of a player who knows how to use the Militarist affinity’s ability. All in all, there’s little to say about them that hasn’t been said. The ability to shoot twice is extremely good, and their inability to attach districts to cities doesn’t seem all that detrimental.

Additionally, it could be made clearer the Ordu/a cannot be attached to territories, because I ended up helping several people complaining of bugs or glitches that they couldn’t attach outposts to cities, who were really just playing the Huns or Mongols.

Mayans:

Industry powerhouses these guys, that LT is really something, and the K’uh Nah isn’t anything to shake a stick at. The Noble Javelineers are still a pretty interesting unit with their special ability and all. I just think the K’uh Nah’s adjacency bonus for Maker’s could be reduced to +3 instead of +4.

Romans:

I want to like the Romans.

The Praetorian Guard coming so late in the tech tree still feels a little weird, but based on how powerful they are, I can’t really deny their placement.

The Triumphal Arch is... Okay. I think it lacks a particular oomph. It encourages the player to win wars, which is nice, but then the bonus you get from winning said war is 10 turns of extra stability. Seems lackluster. Perhaps to appeal to the eternal glory of Rome, nerf the stability a bit, and make it so for every time the city is given the "victorious" condition, the Triumphal Arch receives a permanent bonus of stability and influence. 

On Medieval Cultures

The Medieval got a lot better and feels more tight after the EQ changes.

Aztecs:

Aztecs feel a lot better now, however a new LT is needed. A lot of people are lamenting the lack of the Aztec's unique agricultural styles, so perhaps a new renamed LT that grants something like +10 food per lake in the territory on the city center would help? I know the Discord has suggested some other ideas, and I’m very interested to see the direction the Devs take on this.

Byzantines:

Oh how the mighty have fallen! 25% more money down to 5%. Much less overpowered now, in fact, I would say the money-making line now likely favors the Ghanaians.

The Hippodrome is still pretty good, though during Victor never really got to build one adjacent to a Horse resource as the horse resources were not particularly close to the better outpost locations. Alas.

The Varangian Guard is still the Varangian Guard, and I don’t particularly find it’s “debuff” all that debuffing. Perhaps if it had a higher maintenance or something.

English:

I like the changes made to the Stronghold. It’s nice.

Franks: 

Franks probably need a new food-based LT to keep with the Crownlands theme, as right now they're kind of stepping on more Mexico's toes. Not the first time the French have done that. Perhaps granting you the ability to grow more than one population at a time? Or lowering the food required for the next new population by a certain percentage?

Otherwise I quite like everything else about the Franks. One of, if not my favorite of the Medieval cultures.

Ghanaians:

I love how they went from “the other Merchant” of the Medieval into a fine choice in their own right. I never saw the Ghanaians as bad, just overshadowed by how strong the Byzantines mercantile ability was, and now these guys positively glow thanks to the Byzantine nerf and the Luxuries Market buff. As the old VOC Warehouse demonstrated, any quarter that gets money from trade routes is going to be really really good, and the Luxuries Market is no exception.

Khmers:

The Old Baray is Dead, Long Live the New Baray. The old Baray was busted and annoying, while this one is actually quite the treat, giving both food and industry in good measure. A change for the better.

Mongols:

See Huns.

Teutons:

I love the Teutons, but man the Kaiserdom produces way too much faith for an EQ. Like, that’s too much faith, right? I’m not the only one that thinks it produces too much faith?

Umayyads:

The Grand Mosque doesn't give faith anymore, which I find kind of strange. The Grand Mosque also is basically a mini-version of it's LT. +10 Science per territory there, +3 per territory of the city here. A fun way to give it some faith generation is to make it generate as much faith as it does science, possibly requiring a nerf down to +2 (or maybe +1 but that seems a bit too harsh).

On Early Modern Cultures

The gulfs have shrunk, that god, but some of these cultures are still much better than some of the others. Additionally many of the Early Modern Cultures didn’t get the memo that they are to be one per territory now.

Dutch:

Perhaps I was too hard on these guys when I said the VOC Warehouse should be nerfed. Back then you could spam as many as you wanted to reach unforeseen heights of money generation, very in character for the VOC I suppose, but now that EQs are limited to one per territory, I think the VOC Warehouse can get it's money per trade route back. I don't really get the money per pop it has at the moment, as mentioned back in the Persians bit, "money per pop" to me sounds like taxation and well run governance rather than "people buy stuff in the warehouse." 

Edo Japan:

This LT is straight busted. There’s a civic that can grant you +1 influence per market or maker’s quarter, and then one can grant an infrastructure to give science quarters a +1 influence too, but just having an LT that grants every quarter not just 1, but 3 whole Influence is far too much. To have a culture famed for its isolation from the outside world be able to spread its influence so effortlessly is pretty wack. It seems primed for the “X turns before culturally converted” that Authority and all those Industrial cultures seem to have. I posit a new LT that instead, Influence conversion strength is doubled on territories owned. So if a Edo Japan territory is influencing another Edo Japan owned territory with 5 influence, it would actually be 10 influence. This makes trying to convert Edo Japanese territories to your influence twice as hard without actually increasing Edo Japan’s influence to an absurd degree against other cultures like it’s current LT. Or maybe just reduce the +3 influence per district to just +1. That’d probably be fine too.

Haudenosaunee:

Food nice, Haudenosaunee are good at making food. Rotiskenrahekte is fun and that it doesn’t require any resource makes it very nice.

Joseon:

Sweet Marie Curie, that's a lot of science generation.

The Joseon LT converts all harbors into super science quarters.

The new Seowon makes all science quarters better science quarters, and the LT also makes the Harbors, which are now super science quarters, into super-duper science quarters. It’s absurdly busted. It’s broken. They do not need both. I think making some heavy nerfs to their science generation would help, but I don’t think it would help Joseon’s situation all that much.

Mughals:

Thank god the LT got nerfed. Down to 2% is still good but not quite as broken as it was before.

Ottomans:

The Ottoman LT currently grants a measly 15% discount to stretching territories with influence, which is pretty lame. I instead propose the possibility of making the LT reduce war score cost of acquiring territories taken over during war. Something like 20% to 50%. Or maybe a reduction to the cost of vassalization? The Ottomans had a lot of vassals.

Otherwise, I think the Ottomans are doing pretty good.

Poles:

The Polish LT only applies to Garrisons, which is nice, but kind of weak. The enemy can just avoid your garrisons. Perhaps giving it the side ability of granting +10 Fortification to cities? Not to like, each individual wall upgrade, but just a flat +10 atop of it.

Spanish:

Spanish still feel great.

Still sad about the little capes not appearing on the models though.

Venetians:

Nothing changed with the Venetians from Lucy, so I don’t really have any particular comments on them.

On Miscellaneous Matters

Rushing buildings with population is pretty broken as of Victor. The Discord had the pretty nice idea of hitting the player with a dose of stability loss for literally working citizens of the empire to death. Either as an immediate hit of -10/15/20 lost stability per worked to death pop., or stability loss status. This would certainly curb its usefulness, and make it more risky to use. It's discussed in it's own thread here.

The Pottery Maker Infrastructure could use some purple shade, looks like and sounds more like an Industry infrastructure.

So with the chosen symbol now being used as the player icon, there's no way to tell what culture your opponents are at a glance. Quickest way to do so if you just need to check is click on their icon and look at them on the diplo screen. Maybe we could get a little tooltip when hovering over their Icon up there? Empire 3 (Aztecs) or what have you?

The art for successfully ransacking someone and being successfully ransacked by someone else are still the same, which can often be quite confusing if you’re doing a lot of ransacking at the time and you end up ransacked.

When an Independent People we have good favor with can be assimilated, is it possible we could get a notification?

As I mentioned before a few times, the Neolithic LT is really neat, but I have a feeling Astronomy got picked 95% of the time due to the issues with early science in the Ancient Era. Perhaps changing the Food and Industry effect of the other two options to Money and Influence may see a wider variety of choices.

Relocating the capital should update the CC of the new city to the current culture’s CC style.

RobotDoctorRobot wrote:
For the EU, the Bireme could be made into an early transport vessel in the same vein as the Norse Langskip, thus allowing the Phoenicians not only to explore the waters and meet new trade partners, but to also do some early nearby island expansion, which would be quite appropriate for them historically, I think.

This would heavily hamper their ability to explore. They would lose the navigator trait and their movement would also be halved.

Joseon:

Sweet Marie Curie, that's a lot of science generation.

The Joseon LT converts all harbors into super science quarters.

The new Seowon makes all science quarters better science quarters, and the LT also makes the Harbors, which are now super science quarters, into super-duper science quarters. It’s absurdly busted. It’s broken. They do not need both. I think making some heavy nerfs to their science generation would help, but I don’t think it would help Joseon’s situation all that much.

The fact that you didn't mention the Joseon EU tells you everything you need to know about it.

isle9 wrote:
The fact that you didn't mention the Joseon EU tells you everything you need to know about it.

What do you mean.... it rams land units while taking out fortifications at the same time!

Great feedback all around, and you inspired me to make some suggestions. 

I think that removing faith from all Ancient EQs was not a good move. This favors heavily the cultures with growth/food bonuses, since it makes the "per pop faith" more important. This means that it is a fantastic idea that the Harappans, Olmecs, Babylonians and Egyptians have no faith in their EQs, but some of the other ones could gain some faith. I would like it very much if there were an small (like +1 or +2) faith bonus added to some of the following EQs:  Nubian Pyramids, Assyrian Dunnu, the Hitite Awari and/or the Zhou Confucian School. 

I fully agree with the Achaemenid and Dutch EQ changes you propose (Satrap's palace giving money per pop, and Dutch VOC the per trade money). About the Romans, another change that could make their LT more important is to have reinforcement limits - once you research Organized Warfare, you can have 2 armies in the same battle (one initiating the battle and one reinforcement), and then subsequent techs (I suggest Siege Tactics, Siege Cannons and Carbine) could increase this "reinforcement cap" by 1 each, with an early contemporary tech (or trench warfare) waiving this cap and allowing for unlimited reinforcements. 

On the Teutons, I would change the EQ. Instead of giving faith, the Kaiserdom should increase the time to have the city its built upon converted by lowering other empire's religious pressure to its territory. You actually don't want to convert your neighbours with faith as Teutons, as that would make you lose the DEUS VULT modifier. The Kaiserdom should help you keep your cities from converting from external pressure and help you convert your newly conquered ones, not increase your outward passive faith pressure. 

Agree with the Polish idea, and would suggest another change: Maybe the Polish LT could make garrisons (or at least the Polish EQ) spread ZoC in the world map (not in the battle map) even if unmanned? This way its another bonus that focus on that "defensive" design for the poles and can help you gain some time while waiting for your cavalry to come back and save the day.

Good write-up overall ! I support a lot of points you raised.

RobotDoctorRobot wrote:
There needs to be a way to directly give commands and demands to a vassal you have control over.

I strongly agree, vassalization is way too easy and way too rewarding right now. I've suggested on my feedback having to wait a certain amount of time (i.e 5 turns) and/or having to spend influence or money to have access to your vassal's resources. Pushing the idea a bit further, during this waiting time, skirmishes or bigger battles could still happen and would be a way for the vassal to try to get out of the process.

RobotDoctorRobot wrote:
The "1 x per follower" tenets could be dropped to "0.5 x per follower" to make them less powerful, however "less powerful" is still powerful. Hell, if that's not enough, maybe something like "1 per 5 followers" or something.

I agree, the "X per follower on Holy Sites" tenets should be nerfed in some way, they're currently too strong. I like this idea of groups of followers (suggested it as well), I also suggested that this bonus apply to the number of followers in the region the Holy Site is built in, and not on the total number of fellowers of the State Religion : it would work in the same way as tier 2 tenets "X per follower of State Religion on Capital".

RobotDoctorRobot wrote:
I think this can be alleviated in a few ways, the first of which would be to increase the amount of era stars required to move into the next era. Currently there are 21 potential stars an era, and the game only requires 8, slightly more than a third of the total stars.

I'm not sure to follow you here, is it not 7 Era Stars the minimum requirement to move to the next Era ?

Or maybe you're referring to the top left counter ? With an "8th" Era Star appearing when you fill the 7 others ?

RobotDoctorRobot wrote:
Less Harbors mean less stuff for boats to ransack, so increase the number of harbors we get, possibly an additional one per era per territory.

I'm mixed-feeling about the 1 harbor/territory. I actually think it makes more sense, compared to Lucy. Being able to build as many harbors as you can feels weird actually. Harbors, realistically speaking, are pretty huge and expensive infrastructures to build and maintain. I'm more concerned about it being not build-off-able until mid-Medieval with Hamlets. But at the same time, it means that it needs to be defended, if located outside of city's fortifications, thus it should incentivize players (and hopefully AI) to build fleets to defend it.

RobotDoctorRobot wrote:
For the EU, the Bireme could be made into an early transport vessel in the same vein as the Norse Langskip, thus allowing the Phoenicians not only to explore the waters and meet new trade partners, but to also do some early nearby island expansion, which would be quite appropriate for them historically, I think.

I support the idea, I think naval gameplay and specifically early naval exploration right now is "hard"-locked until either Medieval (if you pick Norsemen), or beginning of Early Modern with Caravel ships. Revised Navigator and Skilled Navigator traits make it a bit better, but I can't help but think that Terra Incognita Competitive Deed will almost everytime be locked by Norsemen, which kinds of defeat its "competitive" nature.