The best I’ve done so far is to get to industrial on turn 153. Even then the map is so resource starved that I struggled to research the right techs and exploit the right resources to get trains And planes. I feel like I’d have to go all in on science to even be able to get to the right techs in time to play out the industrial era. 

I played one game on empire difficulty and I only managed to reach the industrial era during the last 10 turns or so. I don't think it's a pacing issue (I rather liked the current pace of the game) but if the goal of the beta is to test the industrial era, I'm not sure it will work too well.

Maybe the current beta could be updated to last 50 or 75 more turns?

I was able to play 2 full games. Those two games I was 1 or 2 era stars short of getting to Industrial.

Those 2 games I focused a lot on science and was the world leader in tech and despite that I didn't even finish all the medieval techs, let alone all the pre-industrial...

I don't think this is a pacing issue, I think the beta is 100 turns too short for us to test industrial age.

magilzeal wrote:

In regards to the Wonders, I think the Statue of Liberty is a LOT better than the others:

Yeah... part of this is probably due to the AI being not terribly good at spreading their influence.

It's only this good because you play on a low difficulty setting.
On higher lvls the AI pushes harder on influence and having so many vassals is also very unlikely.

You also have basically won already, so it just means winning more after you've won.
Big ben gives more science right if you satisfy the conditions, no vassals needed.

Since I was missing one Oil and there was non in the new world, I couldn't test much. (why can't I build Oil refineries in my vassals territory?)
Science is also way too slow to properly test anything, at least on higher difficulty. (on low difficulty there would be nothing to test the weapons on)

Except for "Osmosis Events" that suddenly started triggering each turn and helped me clear the entire tech tree in 10 turns.
Whatever these are supposed to be, they are way too powerful and random.

What I noticed the most is that you have too little influence on your vassals. You can't take their territory, help them build resource deposits or do anything with them really.
Give me the option to demand outposts or cities, even if that could make them rebell.

AkashaX1885 wrote:

It's only this good because you play on a low difficulty setting.
On higher lvls the AI pushes harder on influence and having so many vassals is also very unlikely.

You also have basically won already, so it just means winning more after you've won.
Big ben gives more science right if you satisfy the conditions, no vassals needed.

I feel like giving feedback based on the default difficulty is important since the majority of players will probably play there. But I will give Empire difficulty a shot later when I can get some more free time.

1. All of the CS values for pretty much every industrial era unit are incredibly underwhelming. Musketeer upgrades to line infantry which as 1 more CS. The Biplane has 2 less CS then the Man O' War, as does the siege artillery. I found the out-teching my opponents in the indutrial era was somewhat useless and not even worth the gold upgrade cost. On average, the CS of this era seems to be maybe 3 higher than the previous era. Every other era has featured an 8-10 CS jump for many units when entering the next era. 

2. Coal power plant is pretty underwhelming as well. It's just another copy of the other infra that slightly buffs maker's quarters plus it gives +10 production per coal. Most infra costs are in the thousands of production by this time. Unless you found at least 10 coal, this will be an incredibly underwhelming bonus throughout the rest of the game. Coal should be a game changer that forces you to trade or war for it, and right now, it's incredibly generic and weak.

3. Loving the bombard ability of siege artillery and biplanes, just wish they did more damage. Can't even get through stone walls that easily with them. Also, biplanes start automatically on patrol, and when you try to bombard with them, it tells you that they can't since they were already assigned an action. This is really annoying, as I want to assign their first action, not have it automatically decided for me. Also, when you select the biplane, it actually selects the aerodrome, and you wouldn't even see this unless you clicked on the biplane unit card. 

4. Train stations were pretty cool, just the animation that needs to get fixed. I don't think they needed to impact stability though. It's kind of annoying to have this new fun feature and then realize you have to build a bunch of garrisons/common quarters again to use it. Also, maybe increase the +1 production per adjacent makers quarter, have them exploit industry on surrounding tiles or don't include it at all. It would literally always decrease your production to put this next to a maker's quarter currently since it would demolish the exploitation it replaces (unless it's on a food exploitation tile next to a maker's quarter, but that doesn't happen very often) 

Only got to play a few turns of Industrial era before the game ended so didn't actually get to explore the era at all. :(

The industrial cultures do seem to have an immense impact on the output of cities though.

So, having finally gotten to the industrial era with enough time in the run to play around, I can say the following regarding each feature highlighted:

• Coal and Oil: New resources that can provide bonuses to a variety of quarters and are crucial for modern units.
  I just about entirely skipped Coal, and there were to few oil resources on the map. After conquering a neibhour for oil, I can say that it basically is "just another strategic."
  The economic benefits of Coal were interesting, but even after getting the tech that gave bonuses per coal I did not truly feel the impact. At most, it cut a turn or two of some of my builds. Regardless of how big of an impact it actually had, the effect felt minimal to my empire. Getting more coal was just a neat "cool, I guess" and not something I went out of my way to do.
  
  
• Train Stations: You can construct one train station per territory. They gain bonus industry for adjacent Makers Quarters, and can be used by armies to move to a train station in a neighboring territory for only 1 movement point.
  Investing in train stations gave me a massive advantage with moving armies around, and meant that my core cities could contribute to the war until the last turn. The production bonus on the was too small for me to really consider it, and I just placed my stations where it would make sense or I had space.
  
  Train stations feel like somethiing that should use coal, and I think giving them some yield bonus for having a lost of coal would make the resource feel more valuable. They unlock on the same tech, so it feels like something that makes sense.
  
  
• Long-range Artillery: Late industrial era artillery units have so much range they get access to the "Bombardment" ability: They can fire at districts, armies, or into ongoing battles once per turn.
  Artillery was fun to use, but the bombard effect was mostly a curiosity. They felt more effective as a regular unit in the backline. At the point the AI was at, they were still fielding swordsmen, and in som cases basic warriors. If I was fighting units more at par with mine my opinion could be different. It was neat however to see idle stacks outside of the battlefield getting some use on turns they couldn't fight.
  
  To elaborate on one of the questionare questions: yes, unlocking it first was an advantage, but not as big as that of getting gunpwoder units first. Artillery mostly just replaced the archer/crossbowmen slots in my armies (which had been replaced by Gunner units a while back anyways).
  
  
• Airfields and Aircraft: Biplane fighters are available at the end of the Industrial era; stationed on an airfield, they provide vision on all tiles in neighboring regions, and can perform a weak Bombardment action, but also protect against enemy airplane bombardment actions in these territories by attempting to shoot down incoming planes.
  Planes felt a bit weak. The scouting ability was nice, but never really changed my strategy away from "walk into their land with vastly superior units." I couldn't really move them forwards in my wars, as the frontline lacked the infrastructure to field them after a while. The rebasing range also felt stifling.

magilzeal wrote:

AkashaX1885 wrote:

It's only this good because you play on a low difficulty setting.
On higher lvls the AI pushes harder on influence and having so many vassals is also very unlikely.

You also have basically won already, so it just means winning more after you've won.
Big ben gives more science right if you satisfy the conditions, no vassals needed.

I feel like giving feedback based on the default difficulty is important since the majority of players will probably play there. But I will give Empire difficulty a shot later when I can get some more free time.

I have to stand up and applaud this. It is extremely important that feedback based on the NORMAL difficulty setting is heard. I do not want the highest difficulty setting with the maximum cheats awarded to the AI to be the standard. If you can earn 24+K in gold a turn on normal difficulty because the AI doesn't push influence enough, that is a SERIOUS red flag and we should all acknowledge it as such and not dismiss it.

Maybe it's my style of play, but I found it really strange that I managed to enter the industrial era with my highest scientific achievement basically pre-medieval tech.

The Turn Timer seems too short to actually test any of this stuff. To get there I feel like I'm neglecting other parts of my empire to such an extreme that I could easily lose a war

I blew through the Industrial Era in about 20 turns. Meanwhile, my science was way back on Chivalry (no, I didn’t build any research quarters)

So it really didn’t matter to me. The pace of Era Stars feels too fast as the game proceeds. I would be curious to see a graph of how long each era takes the average player. The game seems to speed up at an exponential rate, so much so that I can't settle in and enjoy the later eras at all.

Industrial era military units are a mess:

• Line infantry cost 2.5k industry and 4 population but only have 1 more combat strength than the muskeeters, while cost 2.5 times the industry and 2 times the population. Only good thing to say about this unit is it don't need resources, but it is still a very bad unit and a downgrade from the muskeeters if you have the resources to build it.
• Machine gun, cheaper and better than line infantry which is a bit strange given it seems to be designed as a support unit.
• Dragoons, no more combat strength than muskeeters, but atleast it come with mobility but at a huge price tag compared to muskeeters.
• Partisans cost half as much as line infantry and use stealth, the two less combat strength is a small price to pay given two partisans can defeat a line infantry without too much issue.
• Howitzer cheap, strong and long range, more or less superior to all other industrial era generic units.
• Siege artillery, worse than the howitzer in terms of combat value for cost, but come with bombard.

• Steam Frigate is weaker than the man o war but cost more and need more advanced resources, basically useless.

• Ironclad very strong in costal waters with +11 combat strength, otherwise inferior to the man o war in terms of cost but the extra range can be useful.

• Torpedo Boat fast but its combat strength seems quite low and its range is just 3.

FinalFreak16 wrote:

I've only played one full game, on the default difficulty and fairly casually without trying to optimise anything in particular. Despite that I was pretty far ahead of the AI in terms of science generation and yet I actually hit the turn limit for the beta maybe 10 turns after reaching Industrial Era and I hadnt even really started on any Industrial Era tech. I even came first overall in Fame for that game so I felt like I did pretty well.

So I didnt get to try out any Trains, Artillary or Aircraft. I kind of feel like I'd have to really focus science hard to get enough time to reach that stuff before the turn limit. It's a shame because I actually felt like the pace of the game was good. Not to slow or fast, but clearly the game/devs expected me to be much faster if they want my feedback on these industrial units!

Same here, though I've played through 3 complete games.  Furthest I got was starting to build a train station, but turn limit hit before any were completed.

Like everyone else is saying. The 200 turn limit is too short to actually enjoy what the Industrial era tech provides. Played two games on standard so far, first game I couldn't even research planes. Second game, I focused more on tech (tech civs, food > production > research), I got to planes but didn't even get to use it much before game ended. The beta need to be like 100 turns more or better yet just remove the turn limit. It's not like there are more technologies to research in the beta and we can't advance to the next era without the game just ending.

rararasputin wrote:
2. Coal power plant is pretty underwhelming as well. It's just another copy of the other infra that slightly buffs maker's quarters plus it gives +10 production per coal. Most infra costs are in the thousands of production by this time. Unless you found at least 10 coal, this will be an incredibly underwhelming bonus throughout the rest of the game. Coal should be a game changer that forces you to trade or war for it, and right now, it's incredibly generic and weak.

Yes! I fully agree! Electricity and coal power was a huge change in human productivity, and not just on industrial makers quarters, but across all disciplines. I think having any kind of power-plant should not just improve makers quarters but literally everything. There should be a bonus to all specialists and maybe to all districts (basicially significantly increasing the small bonus of raw coal if there is a power plant that makes use of coal). I do hope that the aspect of "power" becomes an interesting theme in the final era as well. Currently coal feels not as important as it could be.

In most of my games I felt like the early and mid game were an interesting puzzle where I have to carefully plan and optimize. However, the late game does not feel like it. It's just queuing up districts and building or going to war. I think the question of how to increase productivity via different sources of power would be a really interesting theme for the last two eras. So power sources should be powerful (pun intended) and it should be hard to get them. For example a coal power-plant should reduce stability (maybe -20 or -30) because it creates toxic air and poisons the water. Then later in the tech tree there are cleaner alternatives that do not reduce stability.

Right now it is easy to win a game on Humankind difficulty even without thinking about coal or power sources. I think that should change, because it makes the make (a) more interesting and (b) more realistic since it would better reflect the huge impact of the industrial revolution.

Totally agree. You have to go for science cultures to fullfill the tech tree......Not the biggest problem for me tbh because I am also fine reaching the end of then game without having reasearched all techs..... but for the type of beta this is.... 200 turns aren't enough if you don't go science full on...

Changlini wrote:

I won't lie:  I didn't get to use much of the industrial stuff, on account it was quite difficult to even get to the industrial technologies as non-science cultures before the game ended.

But, from what I was able to get:

• I like how coal powers up districts. Just wish there was a cool visual change to signify the switch to electricity
• I really like seeing the little trains move around
• I really like seeing blimps move across my empire
• I like how biplanes move around when they patrol an entire region
• I like how railways are extremely useful to move around
• It's a bit frustrating when an ally is able to block my units from ever using the railway.

And also this limits yourself trying out different cultures. I like the Mycenaes as a starting culture, but I know if I don't take Babylonians, I won't be able to finsih the tech tree.....

Here is my little tip for unlocking all technologies before the turn 200 in Metropolis or lower difficulties. (From Nation difficulty AI becomes very aggressive in expanding and conquering, so it is quite impossible to focus mainly on district managements)

: Pick every single Builder culture and secure as much territory as possible. With more than 6 territories,  6+ Khemer's Barray, 6+ Mughals' Jama Masjid, and certain wonders (Great Pyramid of Giza: -25% build cost for districts, Mausoleum at Halicarnassus: +1% science per district,  Angkor Wat: +1 food per Faith, Saint Basil's Cathedral: +1 Faith per district) you can pump ridiculous amount of productions and food. The more you build, the more the city will produce. Once you reach 20k+ productions, pick French in Industrial Era and hit "SCIENCE MODE" button. It should generate 30k+ science per turn. With this much POWER you can unlock every single tech in just a handful of turns. I was able to achieve this at turn 134.
Here is the proof:

O As for general feedback in Industrial Era,...

1. The most technologically advanced surface ships in Industrial Era are Iron Clad and Steam Frigate, Torpedo Boat, and U-boat for Germans. But it feels weird to see Torpedo boats fighting with Steam Frigate or Iron Clad... maybe there should be early form of battleship as an upgrade for surface ships (e.g. pre-dreadnought battleship)
   
   
2. Torpedo Vessels trait says it allows units to ignore enemy's Zone of Control (ZoC). But it did not function as intended...
   
   
3. The firing sound of Heavy Machine Gun for this era was strange... As of now it sounds "BRRRT", but I think in this era it should sound like "Ta-Ta-Ta-Ta..." Even in WW2, only some machine guns (mounted on aircrafts) like MG81 had such a high rate of fire.
   
   
4. A proper steam powered naval transport unit is absolutely needed. It is so painful to transport Line Infantry in a Caravel...
   
   
5. Will there be tunnels, bridges, cannels in later era? It would be a very nice addition to the game.
   
   
6. Production adjacency bonus of railway station is pathetically impractical. If we were to maintain production adjacency bonus, then it would have to provide better bonuses.

This post is short, because I couldn't experience the industrial era tech.  The British special building felt ridiculous, but if I understood it correctly it gives money to the vassals too so it should balance out.  Neither I, nor the AI, seemed to be able to use any Industrial era units or tech.  The science/tech requirements really seemed to handicap this opendev in this way.

• Coal and Oil: Oil is too damn sparse, could not secure two deposits, because I had no idea where they are and how many. I understand this is precious resource, by I don't think it is that rare nowadays. And I could not buy it from AI, because science is too weak and AI could not research into Industrial era in time.
• Train Stations: gameplay is fine, but visuals are too glitchy, railways were disappearing constantly, trains were a rare sight.
• Long-range Artillery: Could not research it to bother or try.
• Airfields and Aircraft: Have no idea how good or bad they are, because some bright mind decided to lock them behind two Oil deposits with only three available in game world for the purpose of closed beta.

Getting the units:
I managed to create most of the units (except Ironclad I think) and even use the Biplane and Artillery in battle on Nation difficulty. It took some planning ahead and I had to pick the French as soon as I could and also declare war on my vassal so I could take its deposits.
I agree that oil and coal were too scarce on this map. They shouldn't be too easy to get since they should be a cause for trade and conflict, but trade was not an option here due to the other empires' tech level.
I wish we could build resource deposits on Vassal territories (or buy them with influence) so I wouldn't have to betray my vassal.

Biplanes:
I liked my biplanes and they felt useful for bombarding units during battles. Bombarding districts didn't feel useful in my situation though - It was always quicker and more useful for me to just conquer a city than to bombard its districts.

Artillery:

I think I only used my artillery in one battle, and didn't use it for bombardment outside battle, so it's difficult to evaluate.

Train station:

I like the railroads, and I really hope you plan to make a train animation that replaces the army animation when it moves between stations. I didn't care for the industry adjacency bonus for train stations since it felt more important to place them next to garrisons and harbors.

Ships:

I didn't get to use any industrial ships in battle since the AI didn't give me much to attack in the water. My torpedo boat was useful for exploring though. The ironclad was the only regular unit I didn't get since it required 3 coal.

Not sure if I should post on this thread but the 'Colony Blueprint' did not create a city with infrastructures from eras 1-6 prebuilt.

Coal and Oil: On the map being used, these resources were tough to acquire, but I believe that was the point. Not sure if they should always be, but then it is a real factor too. Getting one of these resources also did not really do much to open up options.

Train Stations: Once set up, the graphics and move speed were sketchy. Also, they were a pain to place and understand where you needed them, what they would link to and how. Overall, definitely a great idea though and I really do like the concept for them, it is just about integrating them better.

Long-range Artillery: Because range units were already pretty effective, these did not seem that big of a deal, or obvious that they were replacing siege engines - siege engines just basically stopped being able to be built at some point?

Airfields and Aircraft: These were a pain to build and move around the map, but also too powerful at the same time. The power of them may have been to do with the game I was in though, but planes were devastating huge areas of troops instantly in the first turn, leaving almost no defenders. But then, they were not able to do anything? Having to bounce them through various airfields to be at the frontlines was quite a process too, which made me not want to bother with them, even though they were then deadly after arriving.

roger212 wrote:

Not sure if I should post on this thread but the 'Colony Blueprint' did not create a city with infrastructures from eras 1-6 prebuilt.

I never had any of the advanced Colony options build the infrastructures they were supposed to start with.

FaeBriona wrote:

roger212 wrote:

Not sure if I should post on this thread but the 'Colony Blueprint' did not create a city with infrastructures from eras 1-6 prebuilt.

I never had any of the advanced Colony options build the infrastructures they were supposed to start with.

Same for me, however I think that was a good thing given how powerful these colony options are and how much more powerful they would be if you started with alot of infrastructure worth many thousands of industry.

Goodluck wrote:

FaeBriona wrote:

roger212 wrote:

Not sure if I should post on this thread but the 'Colony Blueprint' did not create a city with infrastructures from eras 1-6 prebuilt.

I never had any of the advanced Colony options build the infrastructures they were supposed to start with.

Same for me, however I think that was a good thing given how powerful these colony options are and how much more powerful they would be if you started with alot of infrastructure worth many thousands of industry.

I also had colonies not starting with infrastructure, but I do wish they had. Not having the starting infrastructure meant my late-game cities could literally never catch up so I was disinclined to even bother expanding once I hit a certain point. I like the colony plan feature in theory.

Yes the new cities may not be as good as the old ones, but they are far from pointless as they give resources and cheap districts that help you get builder stars. In fact in one of my games, my best city was my newest which as created by using colony plans to create several small cities and then merge them together.

I reached the Industrial era at turn 134 (stars) and went in around turn 145 (actual pick) with Germans. I reached all technologies early enough to play around with the cool stuff and finished the entire tree just before turn 200. I could have reached the Ind era sooner if I didn't extend my earlier eras, but I'd lack in science, and the era pacing issue is known and not for this thread.

1. I agree with aforementioned statements that CS of industrial units is all over the place. Line infantry is terrible value for the cost, naval units are somehow worse than EM units, heavy weapons seem decent, dragoon is eh, biplanes are cool and ok. This really needs to be ironed out a little.
2. Coal and oil: I did feel the impact of gathering as much coal as possible all my quarters were making +3 more which I thought was really thematic and powerful but not op. Contrary to apparently most people here I like the fact that strategics are rare and valuable and might require diplomatic effort or war to access if you really really want them. They should be part of the strategic depth of the game, not something you get automatically.
    Although, I think there would be room for e.g. a wonder or special district that gives you 1 resource of choice or doubles the yield of a specific extractor (a strategic counterpart of the luxury manufactory would fit this niche nicely?)
3. Train stations were cool once I figured out you need a station in every territory from start to end. However, for things other than moving units it was quite lackluster.
4. I liked the long ranged artillery; powerful and thematic.
5. Airfields & biplanes: again, much to like. Visually it’s great, they provide great vision and there is some poking possibility with the bombard ability. I do appreciate very much that their impact is cool but limited, as WWI type planes were not a main part of the army and their actual impact was indeed limited.

I had no issues with interface and buttons and actions and stuff, everything was quite clear and working fine.

All the industrial era was nice but not THAT much the industrial explosion it was in real history. Warfare wise, only the long range artillery did feel like it changed the battlefields. Otherwise it was quite similar to EM.