I understand that the AIs not building boats is a known problem, and not all issues noted in the last open dev could be fixed for this beta. The issues I want to point out span multiple categories, and none are related to the AI not using boats.

1. The science tree UI does not clearly indicate when you gain the ability to get in the water and when you gain the ability to travel safely through deep water. It would be helpful if the specific tech that needed to be researched for each of these points could be clearly indicated in the description of the tech.

2. It is not clear from the unit descriptions to which boat type any given boat can upgrade. 

3. It is unclear why my military unit's boat type upgrades when the correct tech is researched even though that unit is not in my territory. Why is it that to upgrade into his military type he has to return to my land, but to upgrade as his boat self he does not? 

4.For that matter, why do military units upgrade into advanced boats at all? It doesn't really make sense. It also makes it pretty confusing that there are boats type units my military units cannot turn into. Why bother making those boats when every land unit is, ultimately, a land unit and a boat of the level you've currently researched, but dedicated boats cannot do the equivalent reverse transformation? For example, my Ancient era Harrapan runner unit is currently floating around as a 3-masted Fluyt even though he wasn't in my territory when I finished researching my special unit. Why is he even a Fluyt? He's an ancient era runner and it didn't cost me anything for him to be transformed into an Early Modern ship with a water combat strength of 41 (for comparison a cog and carrack have strength 33 and 39, respectively). My runner is stronger on water than he is on land. Further, all of my units that get into the water will turn into this 3-masted ship with a high combat strength.

5. Why are coastal tiles almost always so poor no one is really advantaged by settling a coastal city?

6. Why don't coastal cities get a buff of any kind for trade, given the historical importance of coastal cities to a nation's economy?

7. Why do units move more slowly on the water than they do on land?

8. Why do units on land (even melee units) exert zone of control on boats?

9. Why can't archers on land shoot boats in coastal water and why can't boats in coastal water shoot units on the land by the coast unless a water-water or land-land battle is initiated?

10. Why do coastal and deep water travel occur so late in the game? Historically, people were using sail boats (even over open ocean) much earlier. Those people weren't European, but why should that matter?

All of the unit issues with water make about as much sense as it would to turn my units into airplanes at will once I've researched flight.

All of the coastal settling and trade issues seem as if coastal cities do not have their historical place of prominence (or even recognition).

Something like 40% of the planet’s population lives within 40 miles of a coastline, over 80% if you increase that to 90 miles. It seems like coastal and naval play has really been an afterthought when it plays such a huge role in human history. 

I couldn't agree more. After playing, it doesn't seem like an afterthought to me as much as it seems naval play and coastal cities have been purposefully excluded from this game. It makes the game feel very not based on human history or reality to me. I feel really disappointed by this.

hope navy and costal city get the attention they deserve

Every open dev have made the sea weaker and weaker, now harbors hardly give any resources due to how bad the sea tile yields are. For other districts the sea tiles are useless which discourage development towards the coast which in turn reduce the value of naval units.

Also I got a Carrack which says its a transport but my horse scout died at open sea while in the army.

Synnercy wrote:

Also I got a Carrack which says its a transport but my horse scout died at open sea while in the army.

This problem is related to the unusual way that naval units are designed in the game. Basically, there are two types of boat you can research. The first is a boat that your city builds that appears in your harbor once it is made. The carrack is an example of a city-built boat. The second, is a boat that your military unit turns into when it gets into the water. The caravel and transport galley (I believe this is what it is called) are examples of unit boats. If you have researched the transport galley, then your unit can move around in shallow water, but he will die if exposed to deep water for too long. Once you research caravels, your units will be able to travel through deep water without dying. The effect of deep water on your military units is determined by your unit boat research only. Your units can travel with a city-built boat, but that boat's characteristics have nothing to do with the type of boat your unit turns into when he gets in the water. This is why he will become lost at sea until you research caravels even if he's traveling with a carrack.

It's completely counterintuitive, and the effects of this double-boat strategy lead to ridiculous things like embarked ancient land units being able to successfully sink more modern city-built boats if the appropriate unit-boat research has been performed.

New york is the largest and richest city in US seems to be quite costal and that is the reason for its size and economy but in game terms such city would not be a good idea.

Goodluck wrote:

New york is the largest and richest city in US seems to be quite costal and that is the reason for its size and economy but in game terms such city would not be a good idea.

I agree. And, the world is full of large, economically important port cities. Port cities have a prominent place throughout human history. A civ game without port cities...I just don't know what to think about that. It's decidedly odd.

I felt like anything naval or water related were really underpowered.

Most of the time farmer's quarter give way more food than the harbor. And the little gold harbor gain is really weak. Doesn't help that harbor cost more industry than regular quarters.

Since there is a limit to 1 per region, they could just remove -10 stability and it would make instantly worthwhile to build.

I never felt it was useful to build boats. You can't really do anything with them UNLESS your ennemies also build boats... then you can compete for naval supremacy... that reward nothing because you can't siege cities from the ocean, because cities are normally way more inland because there is absolutely no reason to settle near the coast.

Upgrade that give bonuses to river tiles should also give bonuses to coast tiles.

Boats should be used to transport units. I'm not a fan of my troops instantly conjuring a boat out of the their little pocket dimensions. If units needed boats, there would be a reason to make them and you would want to destroy your enemy's boats to prevent them from using the sea as a way to get in your territories.

waven wrote:

I felt like anything naval or water related were really underpowered.

Most of the time farmer's quarter give way more food than the harbor. And the little gold harbor gain is really weak. Doesn't help that harbor cost more industry than regular quarters.

Since there is a limit to 1 per region, they could just remove -10 stability and it would make instantly worthwhile to build.

I never felt it was useful to build boats. You can't really do anything with them UNLESS your ennemies also build boats... then you can compete for naval supremacy... that reward nothing because you can't siege cities from the ocean, because cities are normally way more inland because there is absolutely no reason to settle near the coast.

Upgrade that give bonuses to river tiles should also give bonuses to coast tiles.

Boats should be used to transport units. I'm not a fan of my troops instantly conjuring a boat out of the their little pocket dimensions. If units needed boats, there would be a reason to make them and you would want to destroy your enemy's boats to prevent them from using the sea as a way to get in your territories.

I agree with you on all counts. I also wish the harbor acted as the administrative centers do, so we could build districts next to them. I played one culture with an EQ that received a bonus for placement by a harbor. But, it was hard to get the bonus unless my administrative center was near the water. Then, sometimes, I had to place my harbor in a less than optimal position (most water tiles don't buff harbors very much) just to be able to place my EQ next to it. Harbors also don't provide any employment like the other districts that cost stability do. Harbors should definitely not incur a stability penalty unless they make it so harbors provide employment. In fact, they should probably give stability, if anything. Otherwise, harbors have the stability disadvantage of farms, commercial, science, and industry quarters but none of the benefits and the no-employment penalty of the military, commons, and religious quarters with none of the benefit.

Have to agree also.

Personally I feel like settling the coast should actually be better for food production then settling inland during the early eras. Since fishing would have been much more reliable then our early farming techniques. Farming can of course become more effective later on down the tech tree once new research is discovered, like rotating crops and irrigation etc. This would incentivise more coastal cities early on and give us a reason to build boats and protect our ports from other nations own ships. Coastal cities could therefore generate food more quickly early on but would tail off as time goes on whereas inland cities would start off with slower growth but increase in gains as time progresses. 

As for unit embarking, I think it would be more strategic to have military units be required to be loaded onto a transport ship and that each ship have different unit capacities for carrying troops across stretches of water. This would be another reason to build ships as there currently is little incentive to do so.

I completely agree with you. There are much older games like this that had a naval system that required military units to hop on a boat to travel over water. It can't be that tough to code. I simply don't understand why you would go to the trouble of making a civilization game much like Civ 6 and not fix this glaring flaw Civ 6 had. In fact, in this game, things are worse than in Civ 6. Not only can your military units travel over water without a boat, but also, they turn into military boats themselves when they're on the water. This military unit attribute makes it completely unnecessary and, even wasteful, to spend your production or money obtaining a city-built boat. Your entire military is actually also a fleet. It's crazy.

Jumping in to also agree with the sentiment in this thread. Naval Transports should be removed; the only way to traverse water as ground units should be by hopping on a city-built ship. And there should be a stronger incentive to settle the coast (and to ransack coastal districts).

AOM wrote:

Synnercy wrote:

Also I got a Carrack which says its a transport but my horse scout died at open sea while in the army.

This problem is related to the unusual way that naval units are designed in the game. Basically, there are two types of boat you can research. The first is a boat that your city builds that appears in your harbor once it is made. The carrack is an example of a city-built boat. The second, is a boat that your military unit turns into when it gets into the water. The caravel and transport galley (I believe this is what it is called) are examples of unit boats. If you have researched the transport galley, then your unit can move around in shallow water, but he will die if exposed to deep water for too long. Once you research caravels, your units will be able to travel through deep water without dying. The effect of deep water on your military units is determined by your unit boat research only. Your units can travel with a city-built boat, but that boat's characteristics have nothing to do with the type of boat your unit turns into when he gets in the water. This is why he will become lost at sea until you research caravels even if he's traveling with a carrack.

It's completely counterintuitive, and the effects of this double-boat strategy lead to ridiculous things like embarked ancient land units being able to successfully sink more modern city-built boats if the appropriate unit-boat research has been performed.

I see, thanks for clearing that up for me.

Also have to agree with everyone else here about having the need to build ships to transport units and especially different ships have more or less unit capacity than others.