Winter does have a negative, but it needs scaling.



For example:



First winter: As normal.

Second winter: -20% food -20% dust in addition.

Third winter: -20% industry in addition.

Propbuddha wrote:
Some building lose partial functionality:

• Seed Storage loses its +10 flat Food bonus during winter
• Dust Refinery loses all functionality during winter
• Fish Farm loses all of its functionality during winter
• Canal System (which was nerfed hard) loses all functionality during winter
  
  

I like the "flavor" of some of these - Your canals are frozen in the winter so you don't get the benefit...

Awesome thanks for pointing out what doesn't work during winter it's a big help.

Teslaflux wrote:
TI wonder which buildings are affected now.

Some building lose partial functionality:

• Seed Storage loses its +10 flat Food bonus during winter
• Dust Refinery loses all functionality during winter
• Fish Farm loses all of its functionality during winter
• Canal System (which was nerfed hard) loses all functionality during winter
  
  

I like the "flavor" of some of these - Your canals are frozen in the winter so you don't get the benefit...

My thoughts on winter, to make it dangerous but manageable are as follows:



No food production from tiles, its winter duh. Maybe city tiles drop to 1, and external drop to 0 if this is too steep.



-1 to IDSI on all tiles, harder to work in the cold.



Rivers freeze, lose water based bonuses.



1/2 movement, vision reduced to 1+ bonuses, units outside cities don't regen, units suffer 1 damage each hex they move outside of cities.

The winter seems to be tougher now. I wonder which buildings are affected now.

Form the patch notes.

[0.5.8]

Increased winter maluses (-2Food/Dust on Food/Dust tiles, -1 Industry on Exploitation Area). Several buildings don't work in winter.

avidsupporter333 wrote:
The second suggestion sounds quite nice. In my opinion it's too late to make another minor faction at this stage of development.

There is a G2G vote going on now for a new minor faction.

EDIT: Never mind, I just found out the G2G vote for the minor faction ended.



I've read through this topic and decided that the steadily increasing winter is the best idea. I think someone said every 10 turns of winter the strength increases. Adding on to that idea I'd suggest that the timer doesn't reset every summer. Say the first winter was 8 turns, then 2 turns into the second winter it increases.



I'd also like to point out that winters get longer as the game goes on and at the end of the tech tree there is an eternal winter. So if the winter gets so powerful by that point the game would be unplayable after so many turns (although I'm sure some people would like this as an added challenge to win before they research all the tech ages).

Winter must be given a buff, because right now the FIDS scales too fast. We're dealing with big numbers too early in the game. Winter may solve this problem, adding more difficulty.

FullMetalRiku wrote:
Maybe add a minor faction that is insanely powerful during winter but loses all effect in summer? Maybe decrease the level of a district and level 0 districts do not produce ?

The second suggestion sounds quite nice. In my opinion it's too late to make another minor faction at this stage of development.

I would certainly welcome a "winter difficulty" setting in the game setup. Anything from just giving -1 movement in winter at the lowest difficulty to almost certainly causing starvation and nearly immobilizing armies at the highest.

Naturallog wrote:
I feel like a new "hardcore" game mode could be added that includes a more harsh winter and some other tweaks that make the game more of a survival contest than "build an army and rush the enemy in age 2".

That would be so awesome <3

I feel like a new "hardcore" game mode could be added that includes a more harsh winter and some other tweaks that make the game more of a survival contest than "build an army and rush the enemy in age 2".

More severe winter penalties shouldn't be that hard to implement. If we forgo the 10-turn-timer and instead link the penalty severity to expected winter duration (which already increases throughout the game), then they would only need a few additional xml properties. It's a simple, straightforward change with little workload.

Tying them to a game creation option, however, would be a little more work.

FullMetalRiku wrote:
Currently winter is nothing more then a minor nuisance. The -1 / does not have the impact I was expecting when I first looked at Endless Legend. Other parts of winter, like the halved move speed is much more how I expected winter to be. When I first started looking at Endless Legend, it was the winter mechanic being used in a 4X game that made me truly wish to play. The idea that winter would be a harsh couple of turns that could wreck everything you planned if you didn't think ahead, and if you fell behind too much then the longer and longer winters would slowly engulf your empire, I felt that winter was something to be feared.

I purchased this game after stumbling across a review IGN did of the alpha.

That review painted Winter as a harsh time that could spell the destruction of a civilization.

That gave me chills. I love survival games. I love 4x strategy. That lovechild would be magnificent.

In the first game of EL I fired up I was looking forward to being pitted against the environment.

That first winter was a HUGE letdown. Without having any idea how to play, I easily overcame it.

Ok, I thought, it just starts easy and gets harder and that makes sense.

Nope: in 200 turns my civilization was never threatened. I felt robbed of an expected challenge.

Maybe that first review was just flat out wrong. Maybe Amplitude's vision of EL was never about survival.

Maybe their vision changed. Whatever the case, winter is weak.

JErosion wrote:
Ive suggested it before ill suggest it again, Once every lets say every 10 turns of winter, the reductions tick up. So Winter starts you start with the normal -1 -1, but after the fore mentioned 10 turns, winter then gives -2 -2 -1 -1 to all tiles, then another 10 turns later it clicks up again and again, until you wish you hadn't screwed around and got off of the planet

The idea of the ticking time bomb is attractive. Some more tension would be nice.

The idea that after so many turns of choice you are guaranteed failure if you have not chosen well makes those choices feel much more important.

However, it's my opinion that simple number debuffs aren't super interesting.

Some players have expressed their appreciation of the laid back nature of the game.

Perhaps harder winters should be a game creation option, not the default?

Millivanilli wrote:
I would suggest; that every army outside the city, when the "Winter" come, will be frozen to the ground(camping), and if you insist to move or go to war with your army, it will take damage/penalty!

I like this. Armies you have invested XP and equipment into are so so so valuable.

Having them die to exposure for not being in a city seems Dark Souls harsh.

If that's how vicious the devs want to make winter, I'm on board, but this option gives a middle ground difficulty.

Currently winter is nothing more then a minor nuisance. The -1 / does not have the impact I was expecting when I first looked at Endless Legend. Other parts of winter, like the halved move speed is much more how I expected winter to be. When I first started looking at Endless Legend, it was the winter mechanic being used in a 4X game that made me truly wish to play. The idea that winter would be a harsh couple of turns that could wreck everything you planned if you didn't think ahead, and if you fell behind too much then the longer and longer winters would slowly engulf your empire, I felt that winter was something to be feared. Instead, winter is a road bump that occurs a few turns, and reoccurs every few turns after, but no one really cares when it happens, because the only penalty of winter anyone seems to care about is the move speed decrease.



As such, winter needs to buffed so players have a reason to fear winter. I would propose just some basic, units take damage if left outside during winter and not near a city or watchtower. Maybe decrease more? Maybe add a minor faction that is insanely powerful during winter but loses all effect in summer? Maybe decrease the level of a district and level 0 districts do not produce ? I do not know what it would take for winter to be powerful and yet not be the ending cause of games, all I know is that as winter stands now, It is only a simple nuisance then a threat.



I have also heard rumors of a faction that will deal with seasons, which maybe will give winter the buff it deserves. However, I tend to avoid rumors and place to truth to them, so until the Devs give a confirmed faction that controls seasons, I wont get my hopes up. Though I will say, I would love to see a Major faction that would completely flip the game by making just a simple nuisance into their own weapon of terror.



If anyone else has any ideas to buff winter, please post them here, I would love to see what you think and I bet the Devs would too

Just played a game of Ardent Mages, making it to to turn 180 (finally didnt just crush everything) and found out that they gain an incredibly bonus to their pillars in winter. Basically for anyone that has not played mages, pillars will increase your move/research/dust/food. The first lvl on gives +2/-50% move speed cost, second lvl give +5/double range for speed decrease, and winter gives them an extra +3/-75% move speed cost during winter, which made me beg for winter to come. Now, I dont mind having a faction benefit from winter at all, and the food and dust pillars come way late into the game, along with the winter pillar buff. To gain that winter buff, a mages player has to search two ruins DURING the winter, a task I accomplished in 3 turns across the map thanks to the speed pillars and phoenix. The issue I had with this, was that I only had to plan the speed pillars to allow me to cross the entire map in the few turns winter was around (turn 140-ish, 1-8 turns of winter, crazy right 0.o) This quest should be something to really plan for, not just the speed, but if the army can even make it, and making sure your cities are still ok because of winter, as in using pillars at cities still too, not just for travel.



I love the idea that cities would require food stockpiles, maybe make it so instead of pop growth, all we get is a food decrease? make it so we can stop pop growth early? along with the no healing outside during winter along with the damage? along with the increasing penalties? The movement and vision penalties are fine I think. So basically combine all of our ideas into one massive winter buff and we have a threat in game everyone faces till they find a way to survive. Vaulters=Shelter, Mages=Pillars, Lords=Dust for everything, Phages=Epic food stockpiles, Clans=Increase trade for stockpiles, Wild Walkers=Industry to stockpiles. So now winter would be a threat and not a game ending device.

how about reduced healing during winter as well?

^ Yep, while sometimes with rapid expansion you can really feel the hit from winter it's usually just a hinderance to movement more than anything. Since winters last longer and longer maybe they should ramp up the penalties as well?

Yes, absolutely.



/signed.



I only fear Winter for the movement hit. More a minor annoyance, really.

I agree, winter seemed like such a great concept when I read about the game, but it totally disappointed me. The coming winter should make me change my plans in order to survive, and so far I have hardly cared it was coming. There a lot of good ideas going around, I definitely agree it needs a buff. My idea would be that you cannot produce food during the winter, and must rely on saved up food you have in your towns. This of course would require building a food stockpile of some kind. Perhaps each town has a way to adjust how much food they save for winter and how much they use producing a new population level.

I would suggest; that every army outside the city, when the "Winter" come, will be frozen to the ground(camping), and if you insist to move or go to war with your army, it will take damage/penalty! Later on in the game, you should have the option to prevent less damage in wintertime through the research screen.

by mid game you dont even feel the movement or dust loss, especially with a Ranger hero and that movement increasing empire plan, makes lust for loot much easier