Feature Request: Retrofit design choice

Tigregalis

Newcomer

10 years ago

Nov 17, 2014, 5:04:52 PM

Cultists as they work now generally have less to manage than others because they only have one city to manage. Giving them a bit more extra management will just bring them more into line with others.

Razis

Forgotten

Razis

Razis

Forgotten

25 900g2g pts

10 years ago

Aug 14, 2015, 9:58:37 PM

I didn't notice that as a flaw at all to be honest, but you are right to point it out, OP.

I always subconsciously circumvented it by making a couple different designs of units (at times they don't really differ from each other except for the name, in the beginning) that I mean to develop in different directions, specialize later on.

abmpicoli

Newcomer

abmpicoli

Newcomer

5 800g2g pts

10 years ago

Aug 12, 2015, 12:46:11 PM

Yeah, totally agree with this feature request... One of the things I miss the most is the possibility to promote an Iron unit into an elite full metal unit, without completely losing the track of which design is better...

Example: have a "Soldier" that is a pure iron Stalwarts... He mades to survive until level 4, then I want to place it into the elite squad... I would like to promote it to the "Stalwarts" layout, but this is not possible... So I have to promote it to a "Soldier 2" layout that is pure metal... But wait... now I can't no longer build "Soldier" at the queues because pure iron layout no longer exists, so I have to make a layout "SoldierV2.0" that is pure iron... And to make matters worse, we can't simply delete a layout, or else all units become impossible to upgrade... Ridiculous!

BPrado

Newcomer

BPrado

Newcomer

3 000g2g pts

10 years ago

Aug 10, 2015, 9:37:21 PM

Yeah, this is less a matter of comfort than it is a matter of actual tactics. More flexibility will make the game more dynamic, so it would really improve the game without changing anything fundamental about mechanics.

VIPPropbuddha

Newcomer

http://ladderduel.com/league/elmultiplayer/

VIPPropbuddha

Newcomer

30 300g2g pts

10 years ago

Aug 10, 2015, 7:33:50 PM

The retrofit system is a hold over from Endless Space and doesn't make a lot of sense in EL's context.

You should be able to change any unit to any design (of the same unit type) by paying for all of the equipment the new design has that the current design does not. This would require a second UI screen to choose the target design, rather than a one-click retrofit button.

natev

Newcomer

natev

Newcomer

200g2g pts

10 years ago

Aug 10, 2015, 7:01:23 PM

This is a good idea. Am I understand you correctly that you would include obsolete designs in the production window by default? That alone would be a life saver for me-- although I can imagine the production window could get very noisy.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind them looking at the retrofit interface and redesigning it from scratch. It, along with the hero placement interface, is obviously just because that's the system they had going for Endless Space. It doesn't work nearly as well in Endless Legend.

Pyroptere

Newcomer

Pyroptere

Newcomer

10 years ago

Aug 10, 2015, 11:46:36 AM

I would be really happy to see this feature into the game!

FlowerBee

Stellar Timer

You can do whatever you want, just don't be a dick about it.

FlowerBee

Stellar Timer

36 700g2g pts

10 years ago

Jan 22, 2015, 4:27:25 PM

This, so much this

Amplitude Studs LOOK

iknaton

Newcomer

iknaton

Newcomer

10 years ago

Jan 20, 2015, 1:53:19 AM

I think the change should just be whenever you click retrofit it should open a tab with all of the unit designs for that basic unit type to choose. That would take less development effort and would be enough for me at this point.

Nirual

Newcomer

Nirual

Newcomer

10 years ago

Nov 18, 2014, 12:11:36 PM

mshelley wrote:
I would add another feature along the same vein to save time in multiplayer. Custom unit designs should be saved between games. Hear me out: You could create unit designs in single player without a time limit and name them so you can understand them.

Excellent point. For convenience I actually wouldn't mind having that feature in singleplayer as well, but for MP it would be even more crucial. Especially since you don't get the option of just updating the design like in Space.

mshelley

Newcomer

mshelley

Newcomer

10 years ago

Nov 18, 2014, 8:44:35 AM

I would add another feature along the same vein to save time in multiplayer. Custom unit designs should be saved between games. Hear me out: You could create unit designs in single player without a time limit and name them so you can understand them.

Retrofitting implementation:

When you click retrofit a window pops up with a list of the designs that include the technologies and equipment you have unlocked. It clearly shows the costs (in red if you can't afford it) and design names. You just click on the one you want. This would look functionally similar to the booster reminder popup.

Production:

Normal production in a city would work the same way. There would be a single icon for the unit in the production window, and when clicked, the same popup would appear allowing the player to choose the design. There could be a "hide obsolete" button as well.

This would save so much time in the already hectic (for me) 90 second turns of MP. Every game I am frantically trying to upgrade units while managing everything else and making it just one or two clicks for obvious upgrades (era 1 -> era 2) would be awesome.

Edit: as for Cultists, retrofitting would be OP lol, so please add it (I play Cultists)

Tigregalis

Newcomer

Tigregalis

Newcomer

10 years ago

Nov 18, 2014, 1:13:24 AM

I agree with that.

Nirual

Newcomer

Nirual

Newcomer

10 years ago

Nov 17, 2014, 5:54:10 PM

True, but it shouldn't be just busy work along the lines of "you better update those 12 unit designs at the same rate everyone else only has to manage 5". I'd rather have the converted villages have some degree of management or something.

mshelley

Newcomer

mshelley

Newcomer

10 years ago

Nov 15, 2014, 9:04:49 PM

I think it is nice that we can create new unit designs, but I never do it, because you can't retrofit other units of the same type to use the new design.

Let's say the default for my infantry is design A. I make a few of these @ the beginning.

Later I get new stuff and I want to change half to be cavalry slayers, and the other half not. So I make new designs A2 and B1.

I want to be able to change A->A2 or A->B, but you can only do A-A2. This is frustrating and makes the new design feature next to useless.

Nirual

Newcomer

Nirual

Newcomer

10 years ago

Nov 17, 2014, 12:23:26 PM

Something like that could work, yeah. Though it might get kinda cluttered for cultists, which is probably why they explicitly state they can't retrofit those units. And having the unit design available for the minor faction in question doesn't work either, so those units generated are seemingly technically separate from units you build normally... which I wouldn't even mind if there was a way to keep them up to speed, even if it was just some kind of automated, default line of retrofit designs.

Tigregalis

Newcomer

Tigregalis

Newcomer

10 years ago

Nov 17, 2014, 12:12:38 PM

You make a good point, but the list of base units can simply include both units that you currently own and units that you can build.

Conceptually, it's quite simple.

1) Every player has access to every base unit in the game.

2) By default, "hide" every base unit in the game.

3) If you own a unit, "show" the base unit and its existing designs.

4) If you have the technology for a unit, "show" the base unit and its existing designs.

5) You can only build a unit if you have the technology for it.

Nirual

Newcomer

Nirual

Newcomer

10 years ago

Nov 17, 2014, 11:53:24 AM

Tigregalis wrote:
I doubt it's a large technical hurdle, and I doubt it's a design choice. I think it seemed like a good idea at the time (because it streamlines the task of equipping individual units), but then when the idea hit reality, and the implications of the design of the system were realised, well there wasn't enough time and it wasn't high enough priority to sort it out before release. It's possible no one was even aware of it until after release - but once more people played the game, more people became frustrated with the system and that's why we're discussing it today.

Keep the template system - it does streamline things, but rework it to apply to the base unit instead of an unbroken line of edits. As taltamir says, if you own it, you should be able to give it better armour.

What I mean is that the unit template you edit is directly tied to being able to build more of it in your cities. But that doesn't mean there isn't a way they can allow you to equip units without owning the design (after all, you do it with heroes too). And if you do own the design, there should definitely be a way to make it work. Hell, in a way thats kinda more puzzling since I don't remember it being an issue in Endless Space if you got an extra scout or colony from events.

Tigregalis

Newcomer

Tigregalis

Newcomer

10 years ago

Nov 17, 2014, 11:43:45 AM

I doubt it's a large technical hurdle, and I doubt it's a design choice. I think it seemed like a good idea at the time (because it streamlines the task of equipping individual units), but then when the idea hit reality, and the implications of the design of the system were realised, well there wasn't enough time and it wasn't high enough priority to sort it out before release. It's possible no one was even aware of it until after release - but once more people played the game, more people became frustrated with the system and that's why we're discussing it today.

Keep the template system - it does streamline things, but rework it to apply to the base unit instead of an unbroken line of edits. As taltamir says, if you own it, you should be able to give it better armour.

Nirual

Newcomer

Nirual

Newcomer

10 years ago

Nov 17, 2014, 11:01:57 AM

Its kinda how the system is designed, it happens in Endless Space if you get an advanced defense ship from exploration too. Which wasn't too big of an issue but Endless Legend has a lot more situations where this comes up, and some of them really make no sense (especially when you get units of your own faction like early in the Ardent Mage questline) and really hampers some design choices (Cultists, Mercenaries in general but especially for Roving).

I'm not sure how much is technically possible, but something has to be done to help keep those units at least somewhat on a level playing field with regular units. Just selling them to the market isn't a good solution (and only makes things even worse in the mercenary department).

taltamir

Newcomer

I do not have a Superman Complex; for I am God, not Superman!

taltamir

Newcomer

25 500g2g pts

10 years ago

Nov 17, 2014, 2:13:55 AM

Tigregalis wrote:
Agreed. It should apply to all units: Constructed units, purchased units, as well as free units (whether obtained via quest, converted village or Proliferator).

yes, you are right. not JUST mercenaries and constructed units.

any unit from any source, if you own it, you should be able to give it better armor.

I really don't see any reason whatsoever why i am forbidden from giving those mercenaries/quest units/whatever proper equipment

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