Bump, I really like the idea of a water faction and you guys have nearly polished your concept.

Digitalhawk96 wrote:
Well that was a pretty good read, I'm liking the general ideas here. Once i get more familiarized with EL I'll probably come up with something pretty wizard too.

I look forward to that. I actually don't mind if many other people make suggestions for water factions. As long as water factions get voted and added to the game, that's all I want

Well that was a pretty good read, I'm liking the general ideas here. Once i get more familiarized with EL I'll probably come up with something pretty wizard too.

MANoob wrote:


As for the questline: I think it can be based around good, evil and possibly neutral Titans trying to get more followers and thus become the rulers of the race (some quests can be centred around building x of corresponding shrines). It also can be done like good Titans -> diplomatic victory (unite all factions of Auriga under the Titans), evil Titans -> elimination victory (drown everyone), neutral Titans -> wonder victory (create Temple of the Tides which produces warm currents and makes titans immune to climate change, don't care about the rest).



According to this:

• Good shrines -> trade and influence bonuses
• Evil shrines -> combat bonuses
• Neutral shrines -> industry bonuses
  
  

The drowning part can be implemented quite literally giving titans an ability to terraform a whole land region adjacent to an ocean region into another ocean region, destroying any land cities in the process (This tech should be an equivalent of a wonder however).



Now all that remains is a good stroryline . (I also think units need some work as well)

The reason why I made the (Ranger+Support+Flyer) combination is cuz it is unique. No other faction has it. In addition, they can still assimilate minor factions (both land and aquatic) For aquatic >> Amoeba (transforming infantry), Dreevis (octopods Infantry) etc...

I will modify their abilities though... Current units are just basic outlines. One problem I have is that I don't know the rules of Naval/water combat yet, so I can't make specific abilities too well.



As for Questline:



Part 1: "You have awakened, mighty one. The meeklings are calling out again, but their signals are erratic and confused, their voices abrupt and deep-seated indicating uncertainty within our ranks. They whisper of gangling figures encroaching past the shallows and primitive vessels floating wistfully near our borders. They have not heard your voice for two centuries. As one of a few who overcame the corrosive elements and grew past our primordial origins, they look to you for guidance.



Your voice will soothe our worries and restore discipline. Speak and we shall follow, for the depths heave at your word, and I your humble messenger await your command."



Dione Melodius, the First Listener. Long have I wondered if he serves out of fear or out of loyalty. But that is a question for another time. The meek ones must be assembled and order restored for the first time in centuries. There is much work to be done and the currents grow cold, too cold for delay!

Two hundred years of sleep has dulled my senses. I will let my presence be known again... a simple yawn would suffice.



((Raise your city's income to XX for XX turns)) etc...



At some point in the questline, you get to choose between:

1- Capture City X (nearest land city)

OR

2- Build 5 Shrines



Option 1 is for Supremacy: The Typhons decide that the land realms are too greedy, too ignorant for redemption. They discover a technology that allows them to trap moisture within their armor, and even absorb it from the air and earth. It opens up "Colloidal Barrier" technology in Era 4. When you research this, all your aquatic units will gain the Colloidal Barrier skill which removes movement and defense penalties on land, including Titans (The quest requirement will involve building X number of Tempest Shrines). Then next quest step requires you to ((have X number of level X Aquatic units in garrison with a Titan hero in a land city for 3 turns)). (Reward: 1 Support, 2 Rangers from your faction in that land city for free)

Next Part: ((Cast Terraforming abilities 5 times in battles)) >> Final Reward: You gain 1 free Level 10 Titan hero (unassigned skills) in academy and 3 Level 10 Flyers in your earliest city (all of them with highest era equipment)

This questline will push you towards Supremacy or Elimination (military style)



Option 2: (You get some reward) Then you have another branching choice:

- Option 2A Wonder Victory (Neutral) >> This questline requires you to have a City in a Snow or Cold Biome OR an Ocean region adjacent to a Snow Biome.

By expanding and exploring Auriga, the Typhons discover a way to break the crust itself and sink an entire Ice and Snow region into the sea.

They can now build the "Seismic Oscillator" Wonder. A device that causes super-resonance in the earth to summon earthquakes and rip open volcanoes anywhere on Auriga.

It would be implied at the Wonder Victory that the Typhons can now easily eliminate not only the opposing factions but also partially reverse the Eternal Winter effect by effectively shattering all Cold regions and slowly turning Auriga into an Oceanic planet.

This final step in this quest will involve using the Era 4 (or 3?) "Flood Rage" ability to ((turn 12 land tiles into 1 large Lake (explained below) in a Land region.))



Option 2B Science Victory assist (Peaceful route): Form a Research agreement with another faction. Trade 1 or 2 technologies with another faction. Similar quests.. etc.

It will give you rewards related to Science bonuses such as unique buildings that increase science. The final Reward is that you reveal the Era 5 technology (it becomes available but you still need to research it) called "Terran Harmony" >> It counts as 2 technologies for Science Victory and it gives +50% +100% and +50% . It means you can research it instead of the boosting one and get better rewards. (modification from previous comment: it will NOT replace another technology. It is simply a better alternative). We could modify this for balance considerations...



Concerning the "Flood Rage" ability: It is an Era 4 (or 3?) technology that must be researched to be used, has the following effect:

- It has an area of effect of 1 hex range. At level 1 it will turn dry tiles into Wet tiles for 10 turns (no Land penalties for your aquatic troops, combat penalty for land troops?). At level 2, it will turn Wet tiles into random Water tile permanently (reef, trench, kelp forest etc...). At level 3 can it be used on enemy territory, If used on an enemy City or District tile it will not destroy the city, but will reduce and/or income in that city instead (for balance reasons). If you use it on your own Typhon city, that city will remain but will now become underwater (so it is harder for enemies to capture it, and they can't keep it)

- Can only be used on land regions you control and their surrounding regions OR on land regions next to Ocean regions. Can only be used on an AOE within your vision range, so you can use it on far away areas if you can send a scout there to see it.

- Does not affect Minor Villages. If used on Land Ruins, they simply become Water Ruins. Land Anomalies and resources will remain even if they become underwater.

- This the most powerful terraforming ability for the Typhons, and most dramatically effective. In fact, I am tempted to remove the Shrine ability from this faction so that they don't become overpowered, and make this ability at Era 3 instead of 4.



EDIT: Maybe we could give the Shrine abilities to another potential faction (aquatic or non-aquatic)?

Also, it is possible to remove or modify Option 2B from the questline cuz Typhons are not really a science faction...

KrimsonVagus wrote:
The espionage faction is a sexy idea. They're like the Mafia of Auriga lol

Especially that "addiction meter", YEE-HAW!



We will examine that further...

How about making them Aquatic as well? 2 Aquatic factions being "friendly" rivals... Gives them both some competition in the early game. It also works in the lore >> The Blackwater Syndicate are using toxins, recreation and espionage to corrupt the life-forms of Auriga, while the Typhons use industry, mass communication and authority to recruit them. They have naturally opposing methods but similar goals

(Blackwater >> "evil capitalism" , Typhons >> "evil socialism"ower: )

Yep, they can both work as aquatic factions. However I intentionally made the Syndicate in a way it works even without ocean terrain, so it can be a naval faction and even function without any ocean regions at all, just by mining their luxuries from lakes. If aquatic terrain is added however the change is very simple.

KrimsonVagus wrote:
I loved this idea. Will expand it:



Shrines:

Can only be built on pacified villages (causing minor factions to worship or revere the Titans)

It means you still gain the village bonus but you also need to build the shrine on TOP of the pacified village (from the city "build" menu) in order to gain the following benefits:

1- Typhons can't build watchtowers on land regions. Instead the Abyssal Shrine behaves exactly like towers when built on land minor villages, and receives all of its upgrades. Also, the technology to build Shrines is the same technology for Build Watchtowers and Trade Routes (in Era 2)? (explained below)

2- Titan heroes can teleport (by themselves OR with their army) onto any minor village with a Shrine. Can also teleport onto the city in the same region with the Shrine. This is the only way for Titan heroes to move on land. They can't disembark like other units >> They must teleport. This ability will reset the assignment timer of the titan hero (which is longer than usual heroes anyway. So this ability is not OP but still essential!)



Two (or three?) types of shrines:

1- Shrine of Balance: Emphasizes the benevolence of the Titans and their desire for harmony between the Land and Ocean realms. Gives trade route bonus when built. Allows Land Trade Routes originating from Typhon city (By default, Typhons can't originate Land trade routes from their land cities unless they have this shrine)

2- Shrine of Tempest: A testament to the fury and domination of the Typhons, emphasizing the conquest of Land realms. Gives teleporting hero and his army bonus to combat (attack, defense etc...) for 10 turns

3- Shrine of Communion: A recruitment and propaganda center for minor factions to join the Typhon workforce. Gives bonuses when building Units, Stockpiles, or Terraforming artifacts

I will nerf the bonus for Stockpiles in the technology to balance against this shrine.



NOTE: The Shrine ability is an "Available Technology" that can be chosen in the custom faction screen. It will replace the "Watchtower and Trade Route" technology but will make this faction unable to build watchtowers on land. It has a cost of 15 to be chosen. "Aquatic" Factions can choose for 5 cost only

You can Replace Shrines by building another one over the same village. The old shrine will be removed (and all bonuses removed) to be replaced with new one. You need 30% more than usual for this Shrine replacement. It allows more freedom depending on situation, but costs more to replace.



So far, the combination of Shrines and Terraforming artifacts in this race makes them powerful enough, I suppose.

We can add a Late Quest-only "Terran Harmony" technology that will replace the "+100% Industry" technology in Era 6. It counts as 2 technologies for Science victory. In the questline, it indicates that the Typhons decided to restore balance to the climate of Auriga and they found a way to do it by Restoration terraforming. (They are the exact opposite of the Winter faction). This is part of a Branching questline scheme, just like we did with the Winterspawn.

The other branch of the Questline makes them want to drown everyone instead... Possibly giving them a Tsunami ability for major military advantage OR spawning multiple free Titans at level 8 (with unassigned skills) in your academy and giving all Typhons the ability to walk on land freely without penalty on dry tiles.

OR we could just go for a simple Wonder victory (Wonder can only be built in a city in the Ocean?)

Yeah. building shrines on top of pacified villages is probably a better idea since it gives an option to do it peacefully rather than destroy the villages. I would still like to see some influence bonus on shrines since it suites the religion theme even if it's gimmicky for a primarily industry faction. Giving good/evil/neutral shrine options looks like a good idea that would fit alternative playstyles. Maybe emphasise it more and allow to build shrines of tempest only over destroyed villages while other shrines only over pacified?



As for the questline: I think it can be based around good, evil and possibly neutral Titans trying to get more followers and thus become the rulers of the race (some quests can be centred around building x of corresponding shrines). It also can be done like good Titans -> diplomatic victory (unite all factions of Auriga under the Titans), evil Titans -> elimination victory (drown everyone), neutral Titans -> wonder victory (create Temple of the Tides which produces warm currents and makes titans immune to climate change, don't care about the rest).



According to this:

• Good shrines -> trade and influence bonuses
• Evil shrines -> combat bonuses
• Neutral shrines -> industry bonuses
  
  

The drowning part can be implemented quite literally giving titans an ability to terraform a whole land region adjacent to an ocean region into another ocean region, destroying any land cities in the process (This tech should be an equivalent of a wonder however).



Now all that remains is a good stroryline . (I also think units need some work as well)

The espionage faction is a sexy idea. They're like the Mafia of Auriga lol

Especially that "addiction meter", YEE-HAW!



We will examine that further...

How about making them Aquatic as well? 2 Aquatic factions being "friendly" rivals... Gives them both some competition in the early game. It also works in the lore >> The Blackwater Syndicate are using toxins, recreation and espionage to corrupt the life-forms of Auriga, while the Typhons use industry, mass communication and authority to recruit them. They have naturally opposing methods but similar goals

(Blackwater >> "evil capitalism" , Typhons >> "evil socialism"ower: )

MANoob wrote:


Another Titan inspired theme that can be expanded here is worship. I think lesser beings can regard Titans as gods. Thus some influence traits might be fitting (although given faction affinity synergy with industry might not be the optimal option). But anyway this can be emphasised through techs and spells.



Example tech:



Abyssal Shrine:

This is a place of worship, where all lesser beings kneel before the mighty Titans

Effects:

• Can rebuild destroyed MF village as an Abyssal Shrine. You don't get any normal benefits, but each shrine gives +x influence.
• Later it can be upgraded to give bonus on trade routes (pilgrimage) and each trade route gives +x influence.
• Lategame titans get an ability to teleport to any shrine (with cooldown).
• Each Abyssal Shrine increases power(or decreases cost) of Titan spells by x% (up to y% max).
  
  

I loved this idea. Will expand it:



Shrines:

Can only be built on pacified villages (causing minor factions to worship or revere the Titans)

It means you still gain the village bonus but you also need to build the shrine on TOP of the pacified village (from the city "build" menu) in order to gain the following benefits:

1- Typhons can't build watchtowers on land regions. Instead the Abyssal Shrine behaves exactly like towers when built on land minor villages, and receives all of its upgrades. Also, the technology to build Shrines is the same technology for Build Watchtowers and Trade Routes (in Era 2)? (explained below)

2- Titan heroes can teleport (by themselves OR with their army) onto any minor village with a Shrine. Can also teleport onto the city in the same region with the Shrine. This is the only way for Titan heroes to move on land. They can't disembark like other units >> They must teleport. This ability will reset the assignment timer of the titan hero (which is longer than usual heroes anyway. So this ability is not OP but still essential!)



Two (or three?) types of shrines:

1- Shrine of Balance: Emphasizes the benevolence of the Titans and their desire for harmony between the Land and Ocean realms. Gives trade route bonus when built. Allows Land Trade Routes originating from Typhon city (By default, Typhons can't originate Land trade routes from their land cities unless they have this shrine)

2- Shrine of Tempest: A testament to the fury and domination of the Typhons, emphasizing the conquest of Land realms. Gives teleporting hero and his army bonus to combat (attack, defense etc...) for 10 turns

3- Shrine of Communion: A recruitment and propaganda center for minor factions to join the Typhon workforce. Gives bonuses when building Units, Stockpiles, or Terraforming artifacts

I will nerf the bonus for Stockpiles in the technology to balance against this shrine.



NOTE: The Shrine ability is an "Available Technology" that can be chosen in the custom faction screen. It will replace the "Watchtower and Trade Route" technology but will make this faction unable to build watchtowers on land. It has a cost of 15 to be chosen. "Aquatic" Factions can choose for 5 cost only

You can Replace Shrines by building another one over the same village. The old shrine will be removed (and all bonuses removed) to be replaced with new one. You need 30% more than usual for this Shrine replacement. It allows more freedom depending on situation, but costs more to replace.



So far, the combination of Shrines and Terraforming artifacts in this race makes them powerful enough, I suppose.

We can add a Late Quest-only "Terran Harmony" technology that will replace the "+100% Industry" technology in Era 6. It counts as 2 technologies for Science victory. In the questline, it indicates that the Typhons decided to restore balance to the climate of Auriga and they found a way to do it by Restoration terraforming. (They are the exact opposite of the Winter faction). This is part of a Branching questline scheme, just like we did with the Winterspawn.

The other branch of the Questline makes them want to drown everyone instead... Possibly giving them a Tsunami ability for major military advantage OR spawning multiple free Titans at level 8 (with unassigned skills) in your academy and giving all Typhons the ability to walk on land freely without penalty on dry tiles.

OR we could just go for a simple Wonder victory (Wonder can only be built in a city in the Ocean?)

KrimsonVagus wrote:
Hey guys. Thanks for your support avidsupporter!

And especially you MANoob

Always glad to help with ideas and thank you too for the help with the Winterspawn .



I'll stay away from suggesting anything else for the Typhons until KrimsonVagus posts his remaining ideas, so in the meantime just a quick idea of a water faction that is also espionage focused (see my espionage thread for basic ideas). This is an amphibian faction that does not require major additions like underwater tiles and is based on some of the earlier ideas expressed here.



The Blackwater Syndicate



Affinity: Sin Dealers - Syndicate is able to gather a number of unique luxury resources that only spawn on water tiles.

• Age 1 - Red algae - +X happiness for 10 turns, -Y happiness for 10 turns if unable to reactivate. Slowly increases "Addiction" meter on any neighboring cities and any cities you have trade routes with.
• Age 3 - Abyssal seashells - +X vision on units and garrisons. Decreased cost for all information retrieval espionage actions. Increases "Addiction" meter on any neighboring cities and any cities you have trade routes with at a medium speed.
• Age 5 - Black ichor - -x% food and production on any cities that have "Addiction" (x proportional to addiction). Increases "Addiction" meter on any neighboring cities and any cities you have trade routes with at a high speed.
  
  

Addiction - similar to ownership meter. Slowly decreases over time if not modified by luxury bonuses. Higher addiction decreases spy cost on cities. Decreases happiness proportionally to addiction if at war with Syndicate that has one of its unique boosters active.



Traits:

• Scent - reveal all luxuries on the map
• Goods of Auriga - +1 luxury on deposit
• Merchants 2/2 - +2 trade routes on city
• Smugglers - can trade with neighboring regions at war or cold war
• Black market - Black market is a mirror of original market that only has "resources" and "mercenary" sections. Resources are restocked as a % of income of all players. Buying them decreases income of the corresponding resource by x% for everyone (prices are higher and cost both dust and influence). Factions that have Keys to the market or Black market are immune. Whenever a player builds a unit there's an x% chance that a copy will spawn in the mercenary section of the black market (Prices are higher and cost both dust and influence). Black market can't be closed by the marketplace ban.
  
  

Racial tech:

• Age 1 sea travel
• Age 2 sea trade routes
  
  

Units:



All units have "Amphibian" trait - Can cross water without the prerequisite tech, no embark/disembark cost, half cost for moving on river tiles.

• Guild assassin - snakelike (naga) warrior, infantry. Abilites: Amphibian, Chameleon - invisible for the first turn of combat or until attacks. Armies composed entirely of Guild assassins become invisible on the world map after staying still for 1 turn.
• Snake archer - naga archer shooting poisonous snakes from its bow, ranged. Abilities: Amphibian, Poison(-10% hp/turn, -1 speed)
• Abyssal crawler - Huge lobster like creature, cavalry. Abilities: Amphibian, Screech (reduce initiative and speed of adjacent enemy units), Slow 1, Hardened Shell (take half damage from the first attack in each combat phase)
  
  

Will expand a bit later.

Hey guys. Thanks for your support avidsupporter!

And especially you MANoob



I have been a little pre-occupied with my youtube series on custom factions lately, so I fell back on the forums.

But I'm still excited about the winter and water factions. I think this game needs BOTH, especially for future expansions.



I have a slightly hard time monitoring major posts by the devs such as faction competitions etc... So if any of you come across such a competition or post, please leave a comment here with or without a link so MANoob and me will post the winter/water factions there. All I want is for these factions to get selected, all credits go to all of us (I hope )



I will soon make a reply on the feedback concerning the late game abilities and the victory conditions...

avidsupporter333 wrote:
Bump, I really like the idea of a water faction and you guys have nearly polished your concept.

KrimsonVagus seems to be away but I can post my own more or less finalized vision of this if anyone's interested. I have some alternative ideas as well.

Not sure if this idea has been brought up yet-



To negate the weakness of maps with less water, they should have a trait that makes the land regions they settle sink and flood over. Not enough to prevent land units from entering. Like waist high water. Giving birth to the perfect defense/growth/expansion faction.



Ttaits- Great flood. Colonised regions are flooded in water. Slight change to fidsi in region. (-1 dust +1food?) Enemy units slowed by the water, own units faster.



Resources unaffected. Use bubble as extractor like protection from the water.

verdantsf wrote:
Love all of these aquatic faction ideas! It would be awesome if one was released along with a Winter-Immune faction. The two factions could have diametrically opposed quests. The Winter faction would naturally want to freeze the world over, while the aquatic faction would like to heat the planet up so much that the polar ice caps melt and much of Auriga is flooded .

That's exactly what I was thinking!

And even if the Aquatic faction decided to go the evil route, they will still be opposed to the Winter guys. You see, the winter faction wants to turn Auriga into Arctic planet, while the Aqua guys want to turn it into Oceanic by actually melting the ice regions and drowning the other factions. They would be perfect traditional enemies

Love all of these aquatic faction ideas! It would be awesome if one was released along with a Winter-Immune faction. The two factions could have diametrically opposed quests. The Winter faction would naturally want to freeze the world over, while the aquatic faction would like to heat the planet up so much that the polar ice caps melt and much of Auriga is flooded .

Trystan wrote:
A Lovecraftian squid-like faction should be interesting

Yup, that's exactly what I did. It will not be the Naga anymore (even though it's still up for grabs cuz Naga are like Elves and Dwarves, no gaming company owns them).

Right now, they're gonna be "Typhons Rising" a race of Thulians aka squid humanoids...

Check my recent comments with MANoob for more details!

Iorael wrote:
Hi, 'Adventurer_Blitz' made me notice this thread, because i also had a similar idea:



/#/endless-legend/forum/6-game-design/thread/3231-faction-suggestion-the-drowned-architects



Although, i was going for a more amphibic style, because i think it would be too harsh to let them build cities (as mentiones) on water. So they would build cities primarily on coasts, because they have an advantage of building districts in water. If such a city should get captured, you could convert the water-districts to production-stockpiles (a bit like capturing cities with Cultists).



Well, i actually just wanted to say: have a look, maybe my post gives you some ideas.



I really like the ideas that are discussed in this thread so far and i for one, think it would be great to make the faction dependent on food. We already have Production (Wild Walkers), Dust (Broken Lords) and Science (Vaulters), so that would be a good addition. I've also seen you are not planning on naming the Faction "Naga" anymore, wich is a good thing i guess. Endless Legend seems to dislike fantasy-conventions (Even the Dragons are no monsters, instead they are more like "Niv-Mizzet" (if that name rings any bells)) and i don't think they would like to do a faction, that is already existent in another game.



My personal preference would be come kind of Frog-Crabs, because those animals are rarely used and bring out that amphibic style.



A bit further away from topic: The Mod-Tool is coming quite soon. Do you guys think that diverse Factions will be doable with it, or are mechanics like building on water perhaps a bit far fedged?

I'm glad you liked it! Feel free to develop your own faction ideas. You can even edit the original post in the other post you made about your faction. MANoob and I were giving each other feedback earlier helping each other develop our factions. He himself started the thread about the Winter-based faction. Really awesome idea btw. Here's the link:

/#/endless-legend/forum/6-game-design/thread/3452-brainstorming-session-dark-season-faction.



I started the thread about the terrain and anomalies for the ocean just in case the devs decide to apply them or something similar. This way we don't have to limit our options too much based on land-based gameplay. We could all make something truly unique and refreshing based on future possibilities



This game can easily become one of the best 4X turn-based strategies ever developed if the aquatic route is developed.

Also here are two factions that both had similar ideas in the faction creation competition a few months ago. Why did you put my name in quotation marks?



Nereides: /#/endless-legend/forum/7-archives/thread/3573-faction-creation-competition



Cievers: /#/endless-legend/forum/7-archives/thread/3573-faction-creation-competition

Hi, 'Adventurer_Blitz' made me notice this thread, because i also had a similar idea:



/#/endless-legend/forum/6-game-design/thread/3231-faction-suggestion-the-drowned-architects



Although, i was going for a more amphibic style, because i think it would be too harsh to let them build cities (as mentiones) on water. So they would build cities primarily on coasts, because they have an advantage of building districts in water. If such a city should get captured, you could convert the water-districts to production-stockpiles (a bit like capturing cities with Cultists).



Well, i actually just wanted to say: have a look, maybe my post gives you some ideas.



I really like the ideas that are discussed in this thread so far and i for one, think it would be great to make the faction dependent on food. We already have Production (Wild Walkers), Dust (Broken Lords) and Science (Vaulters), so that would be a good addition. I've also seen you are not planning on naming the Faction "Naga" anymore, wich is a good thing i guess. Endless Legend seems to dislike fantasy-conventions (Even the Dragons are no monsters, instead they are more like "Niv-Mizzet" (if that name rings any bells)) and i don't think they would like to do a faction, that is already existent in another game.



My personal preference would be come kind of Frog-Crabs, because those animals are rarely used and bring out that amphibic style.



A bit further away from topic: The Mod-Tool is coming quite soon. Do you guys think that diverse Factions will be doable with it, or are mechanics like building on water perhaps a bit far fedged?

A Lovecraftian squid-like faction should be interesting

KrimsonVagus wrote:


It's like you read my mind! This is exactly what I was thinking: making the heroes themselves lesser titans on their own and giving them something unusual to emphasize it. But I'm afraid this will cause major balance problems especially since we don't yet know how the navy will behave. If land factions encounter aqua factions with exceptionally powerful units in water, they won't stand a chance. This would not be an issue if Endless Legend introduced Era 5 "super units" or something like that, which we can easily use for the Typhons. Just in case the "Titan class" idea is considered too extreme, I think Typhon heroes are most likely gonna be infantry OR even better >> we make Ranger units for the Typhons that only use Spear guns or Harpoon guns at medium range (they have same range and behavior as Jotus maybe?). I think they would look really awesome (and ironic) as an aqua faction to use harpoons that humans would use to hunt their kind in the real world. Also, Harpoon Slings are the only primitive ranged weapons capable of being thrown in the water due to their heavy weight (they are 2-handed cuz they are heavier than normal crossbows. Thulians can use them cuz they are bigger than other humanoids).

We could make it so that the Harpoon Sling has medium/low range on land but Long Range in water/wet tiles? something like that...

So yeah, either medium/low ranged heroes with massive high damage harpoon slings OR Titan heroes with movement penalty and unable to leave the ocean UNTIL the get to the Winter Immunity skill that also gives them normal movement points and ability to walk on land? They need to be able to move on land in the late game just like normal heroes (*insert monsters emerging from the sea imagery here*)

The Harpoon Ranger idea is Plan B for heroes in case Titan idea is rejected...

I don't think Titan heroes would be OP the way I've put them. They will be very easy to retreat from or outmanoeuvre and they shouldn't be strong enough to give you an upper hand if the enemy has larger armies or better tech. Consider this like a Big armies 1 trait in terms of power without the associated cost of building and maintaining units. Assignment cooldown increase will prevent them from magically teleporting around too often. The "Titan" skill tree should not be OP compared to other trees as well, just different (I don't think existing ones make sense for a huge marine creature). The main scenarios where titans will shine are city defence and sieges where retreat is not an option. I don't think that land access should be gained through a skill tree since you can get there way too fast. This should be either a quest tech or a normal lategame tech.

KrimsonVagus wrote:


Lovely suggestions. Here's what I draw from these:

Tier 1: Thulian Spear Gunner. Typical large Thulian armed with Spear/Harpoon Gun OR LongBow (in theory, longbows can be used underwater if they are large enough). Has range of 3 in water/wet and range of 2 in dry land. Harpoon Gun >> Higher damage and RangedSlayer. LongBow >> Higher Attack and Flying Slayer. This unit can be very good against other rangers despite low range, cuz of higher health and damage than the others.

Tier 2: Apostle of Tides (Support). Acts as a messenger of the titans to other races and lesser lifeforms. Can even be a slender female Thulian with medusa-like tentacle hair and having polyps, barnacles etc. on her cloak and boots. Armed with claws, Staff, Wand etc...

Unique thing about her is that she has +1 longer range than other Support units. Also Tidal Wave speed buff for 2-3 turns, like you said. She attacks by summoning moisture from the ground and water to choke the air out of her enemies directly at longer range than usual Support. Attacked (or buffed) tiles become "wet" until end of battle.

Tier 3: Mantakhor. A Flying monster with razor-sharp squid-face and Manta Ray wings and poisonous Sting Ray long tail. Looks creepy with its large eyes staring sideways with curiosity and hunger. Can only equip claws, no boots ofc. Has poisonous attack?

So the Typhon Army has Short Ranged+Long Support+Flyer. A unique lightweight combination that is good for hit and run tactics and war of attrition against land factions near the coast.

All units are good, the Manthakhor is pretty cool and original. However, I don't think this lineup works very well together. 1st unit is ranged, turning into short range unit on land and naturally it would want some cover. However 2nd unit is also ranged and it has no means of protecting them (and vice versa, since no one has a melee attack and ini to stall enemies). Speed buff is also wasted since neither of the 2 units needs it. Finally, the 3rd unit is a flyer so he should be pretty good at getting to enemy archers, thus he competes with gunners for that role. I see lategame army mostly as gunners + manthakors or apostles + manthakors (more likely the latter because of better ability set, unless gunners have way more damage.) So I think at least one of the units needs either ability redesign or replacement (likely one of the first two)

KrimsonVagus wrote:


I will think more about those soon.

A "tsunami" attack in age 4 or 5 would be amazing. I just need to work out the exact mechanic.

Also, the Mineral Rupture ability, I will remove +50% resources to prevent op

Was thinking about "Tsunami" spell as well, but it's hard to make it work. It would be either very situational (if it only affects tiles near the coast) or too weird looking and unrealistic at EL scale.







Another Titan inspired theme that can be expanded here is worship. I think lesser beings can regard Titans as gods. Thus some influence traits might be fitting (although given faction affinity synergy with industry might not be the optimal option). But anyway this can be emphasised through techs and spells.



Example tech:



Abyssal Shrine:

This is a place of worship, where all lesser beings kneel before the mighty Titans

Effects:

• Can rebuild destroyed MF village as an Abyssal Shrine. You don't get any normal benefits, but each shrine gives +x influence.
• Later it can be upgraded to give bonus on trade routes (pilgrimage) and each trade route gives +x influence.
• Lategame titans get an ability to teleport to any shrine (with cooldown).
• Each Abyssal Shrine increases power(or decreases cost) of Titan spells by x% (up to y% max).
  
  

MANoob wrote:
Some suggestions on the affinity:



In the description I would make an accent that it's an artifact based magic. Typhons mainly get their magic from the most powerful titans - Elder Thulians. These are very large and powerful, but very slow and can not normally leave the sea. To expand their influence they've learned to imbue items with their magic and give these items to their servants (these items need to be made from very rare minerals, hence high industry cost).

The artifact idea is perfect. I guess I was trying to make a "sci-fi" idea with the "battery" thing. But biomechanical artifacts work perfectly. "Terraforming Artifacts" sounds nice I guess. Yes, Elder Typhons (the actual "kings" of the ocean domain) being responsible for these powers.

MANoob wrote:
Expanding on the titan idea - all faction heroes are in fact Elder Titans. They have a number of differences from normal heroes:

• They can not leave the sea and can only govern aquatic cities. Thus they are mostly useless to non aquatic factions (maybe useful as admirals, or maybe not available at all in the marketplace). Lategame faction techs may change this.
• Because they are very large and slow they have only 2 speed. All speed bonuses they get are halved. They are about 2 times as strong as a normal hero though.
• No existing unit class suits them - they have "Titan" class and "Titan" skill tree.
• Their assignment cooldown is also doubled.
  
  

It's like you read my mind! This is exactly what I was thinking: making the heroes themselves lesser titans on their own and giving them something unusual to emphasize it. But I'm afraid this will cause major balance problems especially since we don't yet know how the navy will behave. If land factions encounter aqua factions with exceptionally powerful units in water, they won't stand a chance. This would not be an issue if Endless Legend introduced Era 5 "super units" or something like that, which we can easily use for the Typhons. Just in case the "Titan class" idea is considered too extreme, I think Typhon heroes are most likely gonna be infantry OR even better >> we make Ranger units for the Typhons that only use Spear guns or Harpoon guns at medium range (they have same range and behavior as Jotus maybe?). I think they would look really awesome (and ironic) as an aqua faction to use harpoons that humans would use to hunt their kind in the real world. Also, Harpoon Slings are the only primitive ranged weapons capable of being thrown in the water due to their heavy weight (they are 2-handed cuz they are heavier than normal crossbows. Thulians can use them cuz they are bigger than other humanoids).

We could make it so that the Harpoon Sling has medium/low range on land but Long Range in water/wet tiles? something like that...

So yeah, either medium/low ranged heroes with massive high damage harpoon slings OR Titan heroes with movement penalty and unable to leave the ocean UNTIL the get to the Winter Immunity skill that also gives them normal movement points and ability to walk on land? They need to be able to move on land in the late game just like normal heroes (*insert monsters emerging from the sea imagery here*)

The Harpoon Ranger idea is Plan B for heroes in case Titan idea is rejected...

MANoob wrote:
Some unit ideas:

• 1st one: Naga warrior, Giant hermit crab warrior (very defensive), Triton (with trident and net)
• 2nd one: Siren, Some mermaid-like support, human-squid mage (aka illithid)
• 3rd one: Lesser titan, Sea serpent (maybe a flying one), Giant turtle, Leviathan
  
  

Some more extended unit ideas:



Hermit crab warrior (too lazy to come up with a real name now):

This crab is actually not a single being but a symbiosis of a sentient polyp living on the crab's shell and the crab itself.

Class: Infantry

Stats: High health, defence, low attack, ini, average damage

Abilities: Crab shell (take half damage if didn't act this turn or took defensive action), Slow, Combat pheromones (polyp aura, +ini and +damage to adjacent units, stacks)

Weapons: Melee (claws)



Priest of the Deep (Deformed humanoid with polyps and tentacles all over him)

Class: Support

Stats: Low health, medium attack/defence/ini/damage

Abilities: Range 3, Chain lightning, Tidal wave (AOE +1 speed buff).

Weapons: Claws/wands/staves

Lovely suggestions. Here's what I draw from these:

Tier 1: Thulian Spear Gunner. Typical large Thulian armed with Spear/Harpoon Gun OR LongBow (in theory, longbows can be used underwater if they are large enough). Has range of 3 in water/wet and range of 2 in dry land. Harpoon Gun >> Higher damage and RangedSlayer. LongBow >> Higher Attack and Flying Slayer. This unit can be very good against other rangers despite low range, cuz of higher health and damage than the others.

Tier 2: Apostle of Tides (Support). Acts as a messenger of the titans to other races and lesser lifeforms. Can even be a slender female Thulian with medusa-like tentacle hair and having polyps, barnacles etc. on her cloak and boots. Armed with claws, Staff, Wand etc...

Unique thing about her is that she has +1 longer range than other Support units. Also Tidal Wave speed buff for 2-3 turns, like you said. She attacks by summoning moisture from the ground and water to choke the air out of her enemies directly at longer range than usual Support. Attacked (or buffed) tiles become "wet" until end of battle.

Tier 3: Mantakhor. A Flying monster with razor-sharp squid-face and Manta Ray wings and poisonous Sting Ray long tail. Looks creepy with its large eyes staring sideways with curiosity and hunger. Can only equip claws, no boots ofc. Has poisonous attack?

So the Typhon Army has Short Ranged+Long Support+Flyer. A unique lightweight combination that is good for hit and run tactics and war of attrition against land factions near the coast.

Following pic shows typical primitive Thulian (we could emphasize tentacle features around moth or neck a little more?):



Mantakhor concept (oversimplified. Must have sharp tail and better squid-face, bigger eyes):

MANoob wrote:
Some Era 5 and 6 magic ideas:

• Tornado - nullifies any FIDSI production in 1 tile radius of the center, deals fortification damage to cities, if fortification reaches 0 starts reducing population. Armies caught in the tornado take some damage and are teleported randomly in certain radius (can be split as well). Only 1 tornado artifact can be produced at a time. Tornado should be cast over a water tile and then can be moved on land as a unit (x speed and x turn duration).
• Shrine of the Depth - placed in a city is for x turns. If city is attacked militia is replaced with Lesser Titans.
• Seal of vigor - in combat use, all units in the army gain regeneration 3.
• Siren's song - in combat use, takes control over an enemy unit for 1 turn. Can be used once per combat.
• Diver's blessing - +x luxury resource extraction in an ocean region
• Maelstorm - ship movement in the region is halved and they take damage every turn
  
  

I will think more about those soon.

A "tsunami" attack in age 4 or 5 would be amazing. I just need to work out the exact mechanic.

Also, the Mineral Rupture ability, I will remove +50% resources to prevent op