I'm pretty sure that someone has regularly complained about kinetic versus missile balance in the Harmony dev mod.



Also when they say they: "Divided damage done by bombers per 2", They actually doubled bomber damage instead of halving it (See: SpecialModule.xml). They also increased the firing rate of Point Defense systems from 3 to 5.



Weapon Changes in 1.1.27 from 1.1.15

Kinetic Long Range Rank 1, 2, & 3: +50% damage (2 to 3)

Kinetic Long Range Rank 1, 2, & 3: +50 accuracy (50% to 100%)



Missile Long Range Rank 1: +10 damage (390 to 400)

Missile Long Range Rank 1, 2, & 3: +50 accuracy (40% to 90%)



Laser Long Range Rank 1, 2, & 3: +50 accuracy (60% to 110%)

Laser Medium Range Rank 1: +23 damage (112 to 135)



What do u mean by "Rank"? Also are u in line when they say "Added a reduction on damage for weapon which are not firing during their range speciality: -50% damage"?

Slashman wrote:
Well I still personally think that the key to weapon 'balance' lies in differentiating the weapons with something more than just damage numbers.



Like secondary effects: Missiles do splash damage to adjacent targets even if they don't hit, kinetics push ships around so they target less effectively(but only do this well at close range), and lasers maybe doing burn damage over the course of combat from each successful hit. In a sense, give weapons other functions than just raw damage so that they will truly have different uses for different situations.



The raw numbers thing is just going to make combat more boring.

Yes this is something ES has always suffered from a lack of imagination and out of the box thinking regarding combat and events and yet the rest of the game is very creative and imaginative - weird. I would love to see weapons having secondary effects like beam lasers slicing through ships to hit ships behind them and meson weapons being able to shoot at ships in the rear because they can pass through the first row unimpeded. Also what about guns causing splash damage but lower direct damage at longer ranges like shotguns, and beam being very accurate.



They also really need to change back the idea of ranges suiting certain types of weapons. I loved the way missiles were great at long range and guns better at short. Now they are just really dull everything can to everything - whats the point in choosing anymore? Its just a mess now.

I'm pretty sure that someone has regularly complained about kinetic versus missile balance in the Harmony dev mod.



Also when they say they: "Divided damage done by bombers per 2", They actually doubled bomber damage instead of halving it (See: SpecialModule.xml). They also increased the firing rate of Point Defense systems from 3 to 5.



Weapon Changes in 1.1.27 from 1.1.15

Kinetic Long Range Rank 1, 2, & 3: +50% damage (2 to 3)

Kinetic Long Range Rank 1, 2, & 3: +50 accuracy (50% to 100%)



Missile Long Range Rank 1: +10 damage (390 to 400)

Missile Long Range Rank 1, 2, & 3: +50 accuracy (40% to 90%)



Laser Long Range Rank 1, 2, & 3: +50 accuracy (60% to 110%)

Laser Medium Range Rank 1: +23 damage (112 to 135)



Lots of changes in military power which changes nothing since military power isn't used for anything.

Long Range Kinetics got even better more damage 50% and higher accuracy (50%).

Short Range Kinetics are probably only 200% better than Missiles.

Damage increases to Missiles and Lasers is trivial.

Accuracy changes mean that long range weapons are better than they were, but they are heavily penalized outside of long range.

No changes to EvasionDisorientation (still 5%).

No changes to Hull Weakness.



Summary:

Range penalties mean that Long Range Weapons (i.e., Kinetics) + Retreat after the long range phase is the way to go.

Melee Kinetics are still pretty good.

Slashman wrote:
Well I still personally think that the key to weapon 'balance' lies in differentiating the weapons with something more than just damage numbers.



Like secondary effects: Missiles do splash damage to adjacent targets even if they don't hit, kinetics push ships around so they target less effectively(but only do this well at close range), and lasers maybe doing burn damage over the course of combat from each successful hit. In a sense, give weapons other functions than just raw damage so that they will truly have different uses for different situations.



The raw numbers thing is just going to make combat more boring.

I like them also. I have done the same in all of my table top RPG games to make combat more interesting. Anyone who has played Rifts with its plethora of weapon types but still uses D4's and D6's for everything with no unique effects for any of them know what I am talking about.

^^ I like that idea.

Well I still personally think that the key to weapon 'balance' lies in differentiating the weapons with something more than just damage numbers.



Like secondary effects: Missiles do splash damage to adjacent targets even if they don't hit, kinetics push ships around so they target less effectively(but only do this well at close range), and lasers maybe doing burn damage over the course of combat from each successful hit. In a sense, give weapons other functions than just raw damage so that they will truly have different uses for different situations.



The raw numbers thing is just going to make combat more boring.

Slashman wrote:
You guys are the VIPs. Aren't you supposed to point this stuff out to them? Or is it that they just don't listen?

Would just like to point out that these changes were present in the Help the Harmony dev mod, so anyone could have pointed it out, as several community members did.

Slashman wrote:
You guys are the VIPs. Aren't you supposed to point this stuff out to them? Or is it that they just don't listen?

Well, our wishlist is generally longer than anything they can handle and sometimes has elements they don't want to do or simply don't agree with. It's still their game.

Otherwise than that, balancing is largely not directly influenced by us, although there have been numerous suggestions. To me, in such a complex system, this resembles guesswork more than anything else. The cry for a combat simulator is as old as ES and without that my view is that we won't ever achieve anything remotely close to a "perfect" balancing. Even if it galls me to admit that.

Ail wrote:
Imho the damage per tonnage of missiles should be much higher in order to justify their use. Otherwise the utility of being able to target several different ships per turn and thus preventing the waste of massive amounts of damage is simply superior.

You guys are the VIPs. Aren't you supposed to point this stuff out to them? Or is it that they just don't listen?

Imho the damage per tonnage of missiles should be much higher in order to justify their use. Otherwise the utility of being able to target several different ships per turn and thus preventing the waste of massive amounts of damage is simply superior.

right now I m 50 turns into my second game and at war with 2 factions giving me ample opportunity to further test this out.



Long range kinetics routinely destroy enemy fleets in the long range segment alone no matter if the enemy has deflectors or not. Bigger hulls packing more weapon modules only become better here.