Oh, in that case I have read of this glitch before. Its the one where if your slider gives a negative food bonus and you froze your system growth via ship construction, it'll sometimes glitch. Although in the instance I read about, you also have to have maxed out population on your planet. Any of those conditions match?





*Edit: Looks like dev knows about the bug and will fix at next patch,

http://forums.amplitude-studios.com/showthread.php?18347

The bug is not restricted to just colony ships. One game i colonized a second planet in my starting system and suffered the same bug (lost 5 pop >.<)

Autocthon wrote:
Let us (for a moment) consider the way Harmony tax works.



Harmony start on a tundra, worth 2 Food, 6 Industry, and 2 Science. For a moment let's imagine we've exploited Food. We will (for the moment) set Mind and Matter to 100% Food. What is happening?



We are producing 8 Food a Turn (2 Base, 2 Exploit, +100% on planets). We are of course (since we have no construction to do at the moment) converting I->S. This means we're also producing 2 Science each turn. So, what are other races looking like?



Sophon: At 0 Tax will be producing 6 Food and 4 Science (Roughly, happiness notwithstanding)

UE: 6 Food 3 Science

Amoeba: 6 Food 5 Science

Sowers (Exploit Industry): 4 Food ~4 Science



Those are the ones off the top of my head. So basically, for the first 3-5 turns you're growing your population about 33% faster than other races. Is your tech going to lag little? Yes. But so does other Faction tech. Sowers get a 20% malus to tech even. Horatio can compete in growth of course, but as far as other races go they can't keep up. Just hard push growth of your first two colonies BAM industrial hub worlds that can now pump out ships. That's what I do, and it works.

Ah, dry number crunching, adorable.



Since when is the game decided on the starting planet?!

Harmony gets screwed once you come into the colonizing phase, when you have to build colony ships, defend the colonies from early raids and more importantly: when those colonies all colonized at different times have to be made to grow.



You growth if maximized stunts your research, if you do not maximize you lag behind other races even more, not to mention their heroes. If you want to build ships to defend your colonies: again stunted growth (this may be mitigated if ever they fix the harmonys cheaper ship thing). Not ot mention that due to the combination of factors mentioned, your research will soon lag behind by a large margin.



Even without taking heroes into consideration, harmony get screwed by basic game mechanics conspiring against them.

Then you take a look at what a hero does to a system, the boom he bestows....



This is really laughable. harmony are functionally broken.

Compared to having no approval penalty's or dust upkeep.



I disagree with your assessment.

Dust upkeep. uh huh. The thing that is a nonissue for any race because, you know, we make like over a 1k dust midgame and that explodes towards endgame.... Not to mention that corporate heroes throw early money at you... Not to mention that the whoel approval problem... becoems a nonissue since our research does not suck because we get research and growth without penaltys to it and as such can easily aquire the happy techs?





And here is the kicker: Harmony might not pay upkeep and as such might actually be able to host a million ships to sail to troy, but those ships will be technologically inferior and will have to face heroes in battle. Now i love my sheredyn, and my peeps get 40 dust per killed cp... soo... yeah. bring your fleets, harmony. let me buy another 20 dreads this turn...



How about it, play a game of harmony and give us a turn 80 save to look at.



Huge galaxy, many constelations, perfect balance, 8 ai. normal pirates.

Not sure if you have read my signature, but I made a promise and I intend to keep it.



Not that I am a good player anyway, but it seems like comparing them to the Sherdyn is done purposefully for you to prove that they are not a strong as a race that gets a huge bonus to dust.



But in my experience the Harmony get far better technology then the other AI's and end up with the largest empire long before anybody else. And that information is what I will continue to base my opinion on.

When I've played the harmony have ended up weaker than other A.I., so perhaps it is just luck. The A.I. gets bonuses compared to a human player but also makes crappy decisions, so that might not be the best way to evaluate a faction's strength.



I tried several games with the harmony when the expansion first came out. I'm no pro at this game either, but playing the harmony was very difficult compared to other races. I'm not going to ask you to break your promise, but I think you would have more to contribute to this conversation if you had played a game or two with then. Theory is all well and good, but there's some things best learned through experience.

Why would you refuse to play the Harmony until Sowers have gotten a good looking at? I mean, if Sowers are weak it certainly isn't because of the Harmony.

Me and other members of the community were concerned about the state of the sowers so we started a group to suggest changes or fixes to the sowers.



And even as of disharmony, we (At least me) are not convinced that they are competitive enough and so have promised to give the new faction a miss until the sowers are as good as other factions like the UE.



If you wish to know more, or want to see the discussion please click on the link in my description.

Well I played them a bit now, they have sick tech and can have pretty brutal grouth but they are just so miserably slow at constructing things. Not being able to buy out ANYTHING, really makes founding new colonies take eons before they do anything usefull. Also the fact that ships halt Grouth mean that it takes rather long to set up functioning Forgesystems if you intend to defend yourself along the way.

The hulls are mostly just ok, in my humble opinion, awesome however are Transport(two seedmodules on start!! at reduced cost!) and Dreadnought(I made one with 50 weapon modules yesterday ). The hulls mainly just have the module in question "prebuilt" into them as they just take up so little tonnage/industry, the choice of modules is not ideal, not really bad but you know, a bonus to strikecraft bays on the destroyer and point defence on the Cruiser is handy but not to compare with the off the rack weapenboni.

Igncom1 wrote:
Me and other members of the community were concerned about the state of the sowers so we started a group to suggest changes or fixes to the sowers.



And even as of disharmony, we (At least me) are not convinced that they are competitive enough and so have promised to give the new faction a miss until the sowers are as good as other factions like the UE.



If you wish to know more, or want to see the discussion please click on the link in my description.

I respect your decision in this but tbh after seeing you say time and time again how the harmony is fine or even OP for the AI i cant help but find your posts utterly useless since you refuse to experience it yourself.

Destroyers will be fine once planes are as good as weapon modules.



EDIT: welp, turns out I misunderstood and the weight reduction applies to point defence modules instead of defence modules. That's a lot less useful.

Gorsameth wrote:
I respect your decision in this but tbh after seeing you say time and time again how the harmony is fine or even OP for the AI i cant help but find your posts utterly useless since you refuse to experience it yourself.

That is more then fair.



I don't ask that you even agree with my current opinion, just that you understand why I said it.

Destroyers getting huge discounts on planes is going to be great

but now it's rather mediocre.

Cruisers being able to pack twice the defences compared to other cruisers also translates into more weaponry.

This actually is a funny thing, for Cruisers the displayed bonuses vary, industry is for Defence(whoaaaa defence bonus of 50% SICK!! afterall thats normall up to 12 modules, with base tonnage 11 and reasonable costs) tonnage for Point defence(mhh, two modules that increace the anti fighter abilities, cost 10 tonnage and a lot of industry). Now there are several options:

one - the stats are correct, they would be better the other way around but that's how they are.

two - Its a typo and it's both supposed to be defence(now that, as you pointed out is awesome)

three - Its a typo and it's both supposed to be Point defence, and while moderately usefull i think this is what it's meant to be



there already was a typo in the sophon cruiser.



Anyway, neither work , just tested it and there is no difference whatsoever for neither PD or D compared to the battleship.

Yeah, I saw that point defence thing. Honestly I hope both discounts are meant to apply to defences because having the toughest cruiser is perfectly fine since they can't have heroes and the ships stop growth during construction. Every one of the Harmony's ships should have a level of bonuses that you make a little giddy and feeling like trying the faction out.



Fighters are weak for everyone so I'm pretty sure they're going to see some kind of revision. I count bonuses for them along similar lines of the bonuses that currently don't work properly or at all. I don't see planes being weak forever, it clearly isn't intended for them to be bad at fighting ships. If that was intended, there would only be balanced bombers. Their main use would be bombing but they could still contribute a little towards fleet battles.

Igncom1 wrote:
Not sure if you have read my signature, but I made a promise and I intend to keep it.



Not that I am a good player anyway, but it seems like comparing them to the Sherdyn is done purposefully for you to prove that they are not a strong as a race that gets a huge bonus to dust.



But in my experience the Harmony get far better technology then the other AI's and end up with the largest empire long before anybody else. And that information is what I will continue to base my opinion on.

and here we are at the core of the problem:

You did not play harmony, you only see an ai harmony that gets boons by beign a cheating ai. Without knowing the ai's actions (did it trade for the techs?) how can you make projections about how player harmony plays out?





As for the sheredyn: Yes i chose them deliberatly but the finer points stand:

Heroes are powerful tools that harmony does not get.

Approval has never been a problem for any competent player ever (hint: do not colonize what you can't make happy).

Harmonys base growth rate is to slow, you need to boost via sacrificing science.

You wont have both. You also will not have growth and ship building.



All other races can have that. they jank down taxes and increase sci and growth while ind to dust keep them afloat. Bonus points for having a corporate hero to throw you money every turn....







As it stands i see this:



Harmony gets shitty FIDs, lameass growth, terrible science and is a convoluted mess of contradictory mechanics.

Opening Turn: Increase Science Output until you are getting minimal growth, research N-Way + All the Way to Casimir Effect (Convert Industry to Food if you want to grow)

Once Those are Done: Turn off research, convert industry to research, pop cap (or close) your starting two colonies. Use them to produce an endless supply of ships.



Profit.

LordReynolds wrote:
Harmony gets shitty FIDs, lameass growth, terrible science and is a convoluted mess of contradictory mechanics.

The thing is, from a distance the mechanics look like the harmony are the best steamrollers in the game.



And I like how their mechanics work with the whole science-food trade.



So do you believe that there should be greater extremes in their tax slider, with larger problems at either end for actively hurting growth or science when focusing one one or the other? Could that allow the harmony to boom in the early game (Knowing fully well that boomers in strategy games are vulnerable to rushing) allowing them to access a period of fast super teching in the mid game to catch and possibly even surpass their opponents in the mid-late game?



Bugs aside their FIS should be superb one they clear out a systems dust?

Igncom1 wrote:
The thing is, from a distance the mechanics look like the harmony are the best steamrollers in the game.



And I like how their mechanics work with the whole science-food trade.



So do you believe that there should be greater extremes in their tax slider, with larger problems at either end for actively hurting growth or science when focusing one one or the other? Could that allow the harmony to boom in the early game (Knowing fully well that boomers in strategy games are vulnerable to rushing) allowing them to access a period of fast super teching in the mid game to catch and possibly even surpass their opponents in the mid-late game?



Bugs aside their FIS should be superb one they clear out a systems dust?

Harmony in the lategame are the single most powerfulk faction available. Their fleets have MP competitive with Heroes, and nothing can beat 300% Food on systems for lategame industry increase.

I feel like most people have a problem with having a weaker early game during the initial land grab.