They can start by adding Heroes to the Harmony faction. Harmony does have left over Science points, that could also be used for battle cards.

Is anyone able to tell me their most effective builds, and tech routes as Harmony? so far the best results I've achieved are from building factories on any tundra I can find early game, to maximize conversion rates



I can only begin to build my first colony ship from my home system around turn 15-16 and as it takes 4 turns minimum to build, (with factories) I cant hope to have a 3rd system before turn 20 (this is on normal speed). By this stage I have so little motivation to continue, when I compare my appalling fids values at this stage to the other players / AI, or any other race that I play, which can have wormhole tech + multiple systems by this point.



so far I have gone N-way fusion reactors - public-private partnership initially while I build the factory on my home system with maxed tech mind-matter (without growth loss), and then swap to food production mode once I have researched both, from here it takes until turn 15 as stated, before I am able to reach 6 pop on starting system, and my 2nd colonized system



I was optimistic about seeing the patch change reduce ship building growth by only -50%, but I haven't even been able to motivate myself past the early expansion phase to test these changes, simply because my fids are so depressing to look at by turn 20-30



Hopefully I'm doing something completely wrong, and someone has been able to produce much faster expansion, any ideas?



edit: even tried reversing my order: max food from level 1 until 6pop before trying to build colony ships while teching, and it still produces similar results

nope. disfuntional race.

Autocthon wrote:
Dust does not appear to affect Disharmony directly in any way as far as I can tell. An easy way to tell is to find a Dust Nebula and colonize it, check your disharmony before and after. All Disharmony really is is a measure of your expansion disapproval at roughly 2.8% FIS reduction per colony.

Are you sure there is not a localized effect? I could have sworn last time I colonized a dust nebula that system had a noticeably bigger disharmony effect than other systems.

Antera wrote:
Are you sure there is not a localized effect? I could have sworn last time I colonized a dust nebula that system had a noticeably bigger disharmony effect than other systems.

I've been keeping track.

LordReynolds wrote:
How about you first go play harmony and then come back to make judgements about anything related to them? How about that? I don't know why we are discussing this with someone who has not played them.

So you are not going to back up your claims with evidence?

Igncom1 wrote:
So you are not going to back up your claims with evidence?

The evidence in this case is you playing them and seing how bad it is.



the proper way to counter argue me is playing them and then giving us the save and a nice report on how this worked out, what you did and thereby exlain to us why we are wrong and rell us how to play em.





i really don't see how theoretical dryhumping will benefit the discussion.

No I did not, I am not trying to counter you.



I am trying to ask question on the subject as hand until I get around to playing them, and you are refusing to answer my questions because of some childish reasoning because I haven't played them first hand.



----



Ok so can at least someone give me your opinions as to the reason why you feel like the harmony don't compete as well as say the UE or the Sophon?



How are their early game in comparison?



How are their mid game in comparison?



How are their late game in comparison?



How is their rate of technology compared to another faction? (Do they tech fast, slow?)



How does their ship building stopping growth effect how you play?



How does that effect the AI?

Igncom1 wrote:
No I did not, I am not trying to counter you.



I am trying to ask question on the subject as hand until I get around to playing them, and you are refusing to answer my questions because of some childish reasoning because I haven't played them first hand.



----



Ok so can at least someone give me your opinions as to the reason why you feel like the harmony don't compete as well as say the UE or the Sophon?



How are their early game in comparison?



How are their mid game in comparison?



How are their late game in comparison?



How is their rate of technology compared to another faction? (Do they tech fast, slow?)



How does their ship building stopping growth effect how you play?



How does that effect the AI?

I already said all that.



What is difficult to understand about "their fids is shit"?

Do you think it will magically UNSHIT itself by midgame or endgame? I said they lag behind in tech, do you think thats gonna magicarp into a tech advantage?

How does their ship building stopping growth effect how you play?

WHAT THE HECK DUDE!?

I already said that this KILLS THEM DEAD. And someone did agree with me since now its 50% growth stilt after patch, which is workable.



How does it affect the AI?

WHAT DO YOU THINK IT DOES!? It kills the AI too, just slower since the ai gets a bit of its cheating boost. (too bad the other ais cheat too, so nothing gained there.





Are you incapable of projection? Do you need everything spelled out? Well here's a freebie: Fire can hurt you, do not touch it.

If you are going to firstly rage and then still provide no proof of your words other then you word then how you do expect me to believe or really respect your opinion.



:l



From my observations the AI still doesn't get handicapped from the early game on the larger maps, and so I still have no proof that the Harmony is as bad as you seem to think.

How are their early game in comparison?



lower, but for the most part i don't pay any attention to fids coz it has no direct affect on gameplay, just score and where i am vs the other ai.



How are their mid game in comparison?



as above.



How are their late game in comparison?



higher, and as above.



How is their rate of technology compared to another faction? (Do they tech fast, slow?)



slower, and for that reason i don't gun for wormhole, i instead concentrate on settling my surrounding area, and building up a strong home base region.



How does their ship building stopping growth effect how you play?



slower than vanilla, but every race is in the same boat now, so just go with the flow and deal with it.



How does that effect the AI?



the ai seems to pump out lots of ships, which in turn limits thier system growth, and they seem to only 50% of the time set a thingie.. oh crap forgot what its called.. a priority thingie on the planet.. one of those 4 specialisation thingies.. they have an even lesser chance of exploring a moon and seem to never get around to actually removing anomolies.



I've played and won as harmony twice on huge, slow, 8 player games. The harmony (ai) never really expand beyond no more than half a doz systems.

That is an interesting result that even with lower FIDS for the entire game you still managed at least 2 wins.



Thank you for answering my questions.

Igncom1 wrote:
If you are going to firstly rage and then still provide no proof of your words other then you word then how you do expect me to believe or really respect your opinion.

Igncom1 wrote:
That is an interesting result that even with lower FIDS for the entire game you still managed at least 2 wins.



Thank you for answering my questions.

These two posts don't seem to mesh with each other. Why would you refuse to accept one set of answers on account of them being only words (not save files or the like) but accept another set of answers despite them being only words? Do you think that one of the two people answering is less likely to know what they're talking about? If so, why? If you consider them both equally trustworthy, why the discrepancy?

drang wrote:
These two posts don't seem to mesh with each other. Why would you refuse to accept one set of answers on account of them being only words (not save files or the like) but accept another set of answers despite them being only words? Do you think that one of the two people answering is less likely to know what they're talking about? If so, why? If you consider them both equally trustworthy, why the discrepancy?

I thanked him for his opinion, and yes he didn't provide evidence either but you know what?



He was nice about it.



And that makes his opinion worth much more in my eyes because this community is one of my favourite and that because its one once the nicest one out there. I don't promote being an ass.

Wildmick wrote:
How are their early game in comparison?



lower, but for the most part i don't pay any attention to fids coz it has no direct affect on gameplay, just score and where i am vs the other ai.

errmmm...?



fids are pretty much all that matter early game

Igncom1 wrote:
I thanked him for his opinion, and yes he didn't provide evidence either but you know what?



He was nice about it.



And that makes his opinion worth much more in my eyes because this community is one of my favourite and that because its one once the nicest one out there. I don't promote being an ass.

The question is who is the biggest ass; the person who loses their patience and uses rude language or the person who demands evidence but refuses to do the basic testing he is fully capable of. It's one thing to ask Harmony players how the faction works but it's another thing entirely to argue against Harmony players while refusing to gather the first-hand experience necessary to prove their strengths outweighing their weaknesses.



If you played a couple of Harmony games on different galaxy/difficulty settings and with different approaches to victory, you would be met very differently. You'd be able to analyse and report your findings. People could engage with that.

Look guys, just stop responding to the village idiot, it accomplishes nothing but dilluting the topic. Because of his bizzare pledge he doesn't have the first clue what the Harmony's problems are, there's no point in trying to convince him of anything. He'll defend Amplitude's decisions to the last even if he has no idea what he's talking about.



I'd like to hear instead what your proposals are for fixing the Harmony.



edit:

Autocthon wrote:
Dust does not appear to affect Disharmony directly in any way as far as I can tell. An easy way to tell is to find a Dust Nebula and colonize it, check your disharmony before and after. All Disharmony really is is a measure of your expansion disapproval at roughly 2.8% FIS reduction per colony.

This has been my finding as well. If dust really increases disharmony locally, I haven't been able to discern it. Looks like [major] bug.



@ IGN: Please, just stop spamming posts.

drang wrote:
The question is who is the biggest ass; the person who loses their patience and uses rude language or the person who demands evidence but refuses to do the basic testing he is fully capable of. It's one thing to ask Harmony players how the faction works but it's another thing entirely to argue against Harmony players while refusing to gather the first-hand experience necessary to prove their strengths outweighing their weaknesses.



If you played a couple of Harmony games on different galaxy/difficulty settings and with different approaches to victory, you would be met very differently. You'd be able to analyse and report your findings. People could engage with that.

What you say is true, but never the less the expectation to give up my position from what I have witnessed based on the word of someone being rude is a little much.



Who knows, once I play them I might do a full 180 and agree with everyone of their points, but until then they will need more to convince me.



And as always, and according the the forums rules, play nice.

Apheirox wrote:
Look guys, just stop responding to the village idiot, it accomplishes nothing but dilluting the topic. Because of his bizzare pledge he doesn't have the first clue what the Harmony's problems are, there's no point in trying to convince him of anything. He'll defend Amplitude's decisions to the last even if he has no idea what he's talking about.



I'd like to hear instead what your proposals are for fixing the Harmony.

Other then also being rude AS WELL you could at least provide a clear indication to what the harmony's problems are even to someone who hasn't played them.



And I only defend the decisions that have the right to be, there are many points that I agree with the community.



I might even agree with you on the harmony position is you can show what you are saying! Even a screen shot would at leas show me what you are talking about! Please.

From my observations the AI still doesn't get handicapped from the early game on the larger maps, and so I still have no proof that the Harmony is as bad as you seem to think.

I really want the stuff you are taking. Where do I have to break in to steal these drugs?

On every game where there is a Harmony AI, no matter the size or speed or other settings, Harmony is the worst of all AIs point-wise, colonizing-wise, fleet-wise, every-wise. Mostly they are stuck at 1/4 to 1/5 of the points of the best AIs.