Alright, i believe Endless Space is way more powerful than you guys give it credit for. The main factions may not be a match for the likes of Star Wars and Warhammer, but what about the endless? While they are not really in the game they were in the game's universe. So, the endless are known to have powerful technology but beyond that i'm really not too sure how powerful they are though. One thing to think about though, is that they basically created the Craver race and used them as stormtroopers on other planets which i think at least trumps Star Wars.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.



Arthur C. Clarke





Also all of the physics of the other universes can be "explained" without great effort.



Mass Effect just adds a new element we didnt have discovered...yet^^ XD so does Star Trek (in Warpengines)

Sovereign wrote:
Also all of the physics of the other universes can be explained without great effort.



Mass Effect just adds a new element we didnt have discovered...yet^^ XD so does Star Trek (in Warpengines)

Um, no, they can't. Luke Skywalker lifting his x-wing out of the swamp doesn't even remotely work, unless I'm completely misjudging his weight or he's plain breaking Newton's third law.



Star Trek has a lot of nonsensical forms of particles and radiations only affecting either organic or electronic components. As radiation impact on matter is, mostly, a function of charge density, this is also very very strange. And don't get me talking about shifting the phase of X...



And Mass Effect... while I'm all in for warp drives and bending space, removing or adding mass by sending a current through some special new element one way or the other, if I remember the explanation of the principle, correctly, makes no sense whatsoever, even if it sounds more sciency.

lol X Wing...remember "Size matters not?"



considering the sick stuff the old sith lords were cabable of doing this was one of the most low bob force things in the SW universe^^.



The Force itself is never even tryed to be explained with science but because we cant imagine something doesnt mean it is impossible.

Our small human mind is horrible limited in terms of imagination.

Let's just say it like this: The consequences of being capable to break some of the fundamental laws of physics are more dire than the yields could ever be nice, even in imagination.

Decreasing e.g. the overall entropy would be the same as having a rubber ball on the floor jump on its own accord, because all of its constituent molecules decided to swing in the same direction, spontaneously. Now just imagine that could happen to a human or parts of him? Not a very nice thought.

no just kidding so it seems like we realy have to think about all this Scy Fy is happening literally in other universes.

FinalStrigon wrote:
I'd rate them like this:



1. Warhammer 40k

2. Star Wars

3. Mass Effect

4. Endless Space

5. Star Trek

General concensus on the internet seems to be that 40k roflstomps anything that looks at it funny, so including it in this type of list seems kind of pointless since most list's come with an asterix anyway*; that being said, I'd argue that Endless Space clock in second in this particular list, followed by Star Wars, then Mass Effect and finally Star Trek.



Yes, Star Wars has the most impressive WMDs, but the Death Star is just one, stationary weapon. In a fleet engagement, I believe that a ES ship would beat a SW one (thought this is a subjective conclusion). Mass Effect is also rather at the bottom rung of soft Sci-Fi, with most weapons and technologies being rather unimpressive when compared to stuff like singularity cannons and black hole missiles, though the biotics probably make for a nifty trick in the beginning.



Star Trek is the weakest, with the Federation being a poorly run madhouse with what seems to be 3 ships to go around (the second of whom is constantly occupied rescuing the third from a giant space-shark. SF Debris fan, moi?); however, I believe that the Q from Star Trek could beat everyone on this list short of a Greater Deamon from 40k, but since I'm juding the mortal races and their tech-levels against each other, the Q aren't included in the calculations.







*the asterix being "and everyone loses to 40k".

Sovereign wrote:






no just kidding so it seems like we realy have to think about all this Scy Fy is happening literally in other universes.

You unleashed the rationale of a physicist, you brought it upon yourself The correst answer would have been "I yeild, almighty Nos, let me bow down before you and offer a sacrifice to your cult." Or, meh, something along those lines.

Buzzkillington1990 wrote:
General concensus on the internet seems to be that 40k roflstomps anything that looks at it funny, so including it in this type of list seems kind of pointless since most list's come with an asterix anyway*; that being said, I'd argue that Endless Space clock in second in this particular list, followed by Star Wars, then Mass Effect and finally Star Trek.



Yes, Star Wars has the most impressive WMDs, but the Death Star is just one, stationary weapon. In a fleet engagement, I believe that a ES ship would beat a SW one (thought this is a subjective conclusion). Mass Effect is also rather at the bottom rung of soft Sci-Fi, with most weapons and technologies being rather unimpressive when compared to stuff like singularity cannons and black hole missiles, though the biotics probably make for a nifty trick in the beginning.



Star Trek is the weakest, with the Federation being a poorly run madhouse with what seems to be 3 ships to go around (the second of whom is constantly occupied rescuing the third from a giant space-shark. SF Debris fan, moi?); however, I believe that the Q from Star Trek could beat everyone on this list short of a Greater Deamon from 40k, but since I'm juding the mortal races and their tech-levels against each other, the Q aren't included in the calculations.







*the asterix being "and everyone loses to 40k".

The net says that about 40k? Huh...Guess I'm just that out of touch with these what-if battles. Still, it isn't hard to see why, once you delve into the quagmire/black hole that is Warhammer 40k. That universe is just...well, their aimed for grimdark, and they got it, hands down. It's just...Yeah, I simply don't think another sci-fi universe can match the sheer destructive forces 40k can unleash. But, if everyone loses to 40k...Does 40k, lose to 40k? What about Warhammer 30k?



As for the rest, well, like you said, it's all subjective and personal preference. For example, define stationary for the Death Star? I mean, it was able to pop over and destroy Alderaan, and then pop on over and try to target Yavin 4. Sure, it isn't as mobile or manuverable as a starship, but that's because it's the size of a small moon As for fleet on fleet fights...I'm still giving Star Wars the advantage, but again, that is just my own opinion. Especially as such starts devolving into: "Well, what fleet? Imperial or Rebel? And if Imperial, which Empire? Sith? What Sith, Revan, Malak, Sidious, or some other? Because clearly this one trumps that one, while the other one...Blah blah, etc etc..." and the same for what ES fleet.



For Mass Effect, well...they do have singularity cannons, just on the small scale. I love that weapon in ME2...I agree with you, they are on the weaker side of things though. I place them behind Endless Space simply because, well...I've been too lazy to read through ES's tech tree and refresh my memory on what, exactly, all the late tier weapons are.

I think the aliens are also a good criterium to judge which Sci fi universe is the "most" powerful. And among all those that have been mentioned here, Endless Space is the best. Then comes Farscape.



Star Wars is at the end of the list, because of its poor designed aliens. Star Trek is a bit better because of the focus on exploration and inter-species interactions (just like Mass Effect, which is deeply inspired by Star Trek in the way the aliens interact with humanity).



The evocative power is very important in a sci fi universe. It's not just about weapons and spaceships. If you feel totally disoriented when you enter in one of these new worlds, that's a win. And Star Wars, Star Trek or Warhammer have a really tiny evocative power.

Igncom1 wrote:
Non of it makes any scientific sense as it is all a bunch of hand waving.

All those universes differ only by their grasp on physics and Warhammer has psionics, Star Wars has the Force, Mass Effect has the mass effect, ES has dust and Star Trek got the Q (at least those are the very worst case) and any kind of silly sounding radiation that could be thought up.



If all universes didn't have their escape out of general physics alike to our own, the cap on power would be equal for all of them.



So all we're comparing here is the power potential of the plot escape to remove science and start the magic.

Adventurer_Blitz wrote:
Alright, i believe Endless Space is way more powerful than you guys give it credit for. The main factions may not be a match for the likes of Star Wars and Warhammer, but what about the endless? While they are not really in the game they were in the game's universe. So, the endless are known to have powerful technology but beyond that i'm really not too sure how powerful they are though. One thing to think about though, is that they basically created the Craver race and used them as stormtroopers on other planets which i think at least trumps Star Wars.

Well, the Endless aren't around anymore. If we take them into account, then we should also take into account all of the other "Precursor" races.



Star Wars brings in the Infinite Empire, which...honestly, I don't know much about. Just that they were huge, incredibly powerful, and had a tendency to imprison people good at riddles. Star Trek...I have no idea. Mass Effect brings in the Protheans (meh) and the Leviathans, the beings that created the Reapers. That, at least, strikes me as being on par with the Endless and Cravers.



And once again, in my opinion, Warhammer 40k trumps all with either humanity in their Dark Age if Technology, or the Old Ones and the C'Tan. I'm just too tired at the moment to get into why for that, though, so, I will come back to it after some needed sleep...

FinalStrigon wrote:
Well, the Endless aren't around anymore. If we take them into account, then we should also take into account all of the other "Precursor" races.



Star Wars brings in the Infinite Empire, which...honestly, I don't know much about. Just that they were huge, incredibly powerful, and had a tendency to imprison people good at riddles. Star Trek...I have no idea. Mass Effect brings in the Protheans (meh) and the Leviathans, the beings that created the Reapers. That, at least, strikes me as being on par with the Endless and Cravers.



And once again, in my opinion, Warhammer 40k trumps all with either humanity in their Dark Age if Technology, or the Old Ones and the C'Tan. I'm just too tired at the moment to get into why for that, though, so, I will come back to it after some needed sleep...

C'Tan... The gods out for a universal wide all you can eat buffet.

Well some of the endless did "survive" , the amoebas, the endless heroes, etc.

FinalStrigon wrote:
You unleashed the rationale of a physicist, you brought it upon yourself The correst answer would have been "I yeild, almighty Nos, let me bow down before you and offer a sacrifice to your cult." Or, meh, something along those lines.

I apologize, but I do believe that this is the correct answer to any of Nos's physics posts:







Mind=Blown

Adventurer_Blitz wrote:
Well some of the endless did "survive" , the amoebas, the endless heroes, etc.

True, but as a civilization, they are gone, and with the civilization the great extent of their power. Sure, there are some remnants left, but Precursor races always leave behind remnants. The Leviathans and the Mass Effect relays, the Protheans and the beacons, the C'tan and the Necron and the anti-psyker pylons, the Old Ones and the Webway, the Eldar, and possible the Orks, and so on and so forth.



Hmm...And I now wonder if I should have included Halo in my list...I'd rate them rather low, honestly, possibly a step below Mass Effect, but still above Star Trek, due to bias and Forerunners in Halo. And the Flood. Sheesh, the Flood...

i don't know too much about the halo universe but from what i have seen of halo reach, the UNSC's tactics are awful. the covenant arn't that much better as far as i have seen though.

Stealth_Hawk wrote:
I apologize, but I do believe that this is the correct answer to any of Nos's physics posts:







Mind=Blown

Hah, nice, I missed this. You're right, this is definitely the correct response. Now, though, I just have to wonder...How did you post this one hour after me, but have the post appear ahead of mine in the thread?

Adventurer_Blitz wrote:
i don't know too much about the halo universe but from what i have seen of halo reach, the UNSC's tactics are awful. the covenant arn't that much better as far as i have seen though.

The UNSC's tactics weren't awful. They were just very outclassed in terms of technology and quality of soldiers. Normal human soldiers simply couldn't stand against Elites and Brutes, and so humanity was very quickly forced into a defensive war, trying to keep the Covenant from finding their core, important worlds while trying to regroup and figure out a plan. Honestly, though, I don't think humanity ever had a chance. If it wasn't for the Flood waking up and the Covenant being the closest snack for them to munch on...



Of course, you only get most of that if you dive into the book and lore outside of just playing the games. Otherwise, well, it's an FPS designed you make you feel like a super soldier badass, so naturally most of the time the orders are "You, go here, and save the day. That is all."

no strigon, i'm talking about that one game that i did play all the way through. i haven't read the books or know too much about them but in halo reach, they have serious issues. first off, they have two giant dreadnaught esque ships. they use one of them to blow up a tower that could have been demolished with ANYTHING other than that one ship. then the ship is blown up by the covenant super-ship. and then there was this fiasco: they may be outclassed in technology, but sending so many troops out to cross a bridge under heavy fire from the covenant was a really stupid idea.

Adventurer_Blitz wrote:
just imagine a superfleet of cravers, they control hundreds of planets churning out thousands of ships per year, will they be able to match all of thethreats from other sci fi universes??

IF they would control hundreds of planets churning out thousands of ships per year.



Still, Imperium of Man controls at least one million worlds.

What do you mean? Are you talking about influence in culture?

I think he means in terms of power generator, defense strength, weapons yields, that sort of thing.

Without weapons that can destroy entire planets or even stars, it probably is not that powerfull in comparison to other Sci-Fi-Universes.

one of the last tier techs involves shooting giant projectiles through a planet's core, thats scary. also, they never design super weapons right in other sci fi universes. it only took a fighter to kill basically both death stars. and endless space has fighters.

If you read the tech the theme is far more advanced that said mentioned lore.Dust also allows to build a million ship armada in a year.

Such comparisons are hard to do. Very many variables.

It depends on what parties would be involved (are all of Endless Space factions working in unision?)? What is their advancement level?



Galactic Empire of the Star Wars universe was very powerful due to its gargantuan fleets, decent superweapons and supernatural forces backing it up. Yet it was toppled by a bunch of rag-tag rebels that had nothing in their favour but story narrative.

WH40k Imperium of Man would probably roflroll over anything that most SF universes could throw at it, only if it could get past its stagnation and get its awesome leader back (+++without Him we are nothing+++).

Mass Effect's Reapers seem pretty powerful, nigh unstoppable, except for their Achilles' heel (which is bullshit).



Star Trek, BSG and Halo portray something more akin to a regional conflicts. The powers involved aren't that big in comparison to other mentioned universes.







[amIallowedtosay'bullshit'here?]

The problem is that ES starts with like fusion powered space ships using interstellar strings and conventional weapons, and ends with the weaponization of entropy and command of wormholes to join any two in their empires together.

just imagine a superfleet of cravers, they control hundreds of planets churning out thousands of ships per year, will they be able to match all of thethreats from other sci fi universes??

So I have been thinking; about how powerful do you think the Endless Space universe is compared to others?



For example: How powerful is the Endless Space universe as compared to say: Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, BSG, Mass Effect, Halo, or any other science fiction universes?





Sorry if this seems off topic but I have been wondering this for a while.

Igncom1 wrote:
The problem is that ES starts with like fusion powered space ships using interstellar strings and conventional weapons, and ends with the weaponization of entropy and command of wormholes to join any two in their empires together.

Yeah.



Endless space isn't so much a universe as it is a "what if."



If we take starting tech we're basically using engines on a hunk of steel with some cannons attached.



By mid game we've got fast than light engines with giant laser cannons attached.



By end game we've got instant travel engines that merely detach your matter.

I wouldn't call Endless Space a "what if" universe. The main setback it has in such a comparison is that, well, it hasn't been around nearly as long as the universes it is being compared to. It hadn't had time to really get it's lore, the intricacies of the universe, really out there. If you go digging you can find it, but, it's harder to get a picture of the universe than you can of Warhammer 40k, Star Wars, Star Trek, etc.



I'd rate them like this:



1. Warhammer 40k

2. Star Wars

3. Mass Effect

4. Endless Space

5. Star Trek



These are the only sci-fi universes I feel I know enough about to make a good call on.



My reasoning is that for 40k, the Imperium of Man alone could likely fight and at least hold it's own against the combined races/factions of any of the other universes. I mean, it's what they're doing right now basically. Add in the rest of the 40k universe and it's just game over for any other universe in my opinion. Star Wars comes next, simply because they have doomsday tech like the Death Star, Eclipse-class Star Destroyers, Sun Crusher missiles, Dath Nihilus, Yo'gand's Core...Plus, aside from 40k, I don't think any other universe has much of an answer for the amount of Force users.



Mass Effect might be able to, with biotics, but I don't believe there are many biotics as there are Force users. Or ones powerful enough to make a difference...When I see a biotic pull a ship like the Destiny Ancension out of orbit and crash into the planet, then I'll reconsider. And while the Reapers are, in essence, doomsday material, and there are a lot of them...I think Star Wars vessels and space stations are much more powerful and can handle them. Endless Space is close behind Mass Effect, only losing out because of the Reapers. Heroes enhanced with Dust could very well be similar to biotics, or even Force users, but...we just don't know. It was a really rough call between these two, to be honest. If we ever see more of the Endless Space universe, I'll re-evaluate this.



Star Trek is last simply because, well...To be honest, I'm least familiar with it. And the majority of their problem solving seems to be diplomatic in nature. Sure, their ships can hold up well in a fight in their own universe, but, I think the others simply have them outclassed and outgunned. I don't think they have as much doomsday tech as the the others, either. This is all just my opinion, of course, but that's how I would rank them.

FinalStrigon wrote:


I'd rate them like this:



1. Warhammer 40k

2. Star Wars

3. Mass Effect

4. Endless Space

5. Star Trek

This reminded me of one episode of "battle of the nerds" or something like that. They had battle between Star Wars and Star Trek. I'm pretty sure trek was the one that won

Well it depends on the lore you use.



The older star trek lore meant that star wars war far superior in every way, newer ST lore however brings them into their own with hyper long ranged warfair.



Non of it makes any scientific sense as it is all a bunch of hand waving.

Igncom1 wrote:
Well it depends on the lore you use.



The older star trek lore meant that star wars war far superior in every way, newer ST lore however brings them into their own with hyper long ranged warfair.



Non of it makes any scientific sense as it is all a bunch of hand waving.

I'd say in most cases it depend of the person doing the comparison. The battle between Star Trek and Star Wars is ongoing one and I don't think fans of either universe are close to waving white flag.

Wredniak2003 wrote:
I'd say in most cases it depend of the person doing the comparison. The battle between Star Trek and Star Wars is ongoing one and I don't think fans of either universe are close to waving white flag.

True, as the technology is hard to compare.



Not to mention people seem to fail when they mention whether the sides are blood lusted, because the federation sure as hell won't use it's super anti-Borg tech, because it's not what the entire faction stands for, it's the exact opposite.

The Flood > Imperium