Hmm.. what I would pay for.. it depends

with DLC its easy to feel cheated about something that should have been in the game in the first place (take a long and good look at Civ V)

On the other hand: If I feel the devs did their best to release a good vanilla with as much as they could include.. and maybe later they decide.. hey.. there is some stuff that could really enrich the game .. lets make an expansion pack.. or some good DLC .. i might pay for it

(but then there is the problem that tsjb mentioned of splitting the player base).

For the money issue: I bought the Emperor edition.. but not for the extras I would get but for a different reason

I saw the game, I liked the concept, I never heard of the company before but it seemed to be well worth it... I wanted to support them. So far I feel I did the right thing. Thats another thing: why force the community to pay for things that they need in the game... treat your customers well .. and they will treat you in a good way.

If someone would ask me: Well how to do it right... Paradox Games. They released cosmetics and new soundtrack as paid DLCs and while its nice to have them there is no gameplay reason for buying them and still everybody can play with everybody online.

(Crusader Kings II) I bought the game, I bought several of those cosmetics because I like that kind of game and I like the way they treat me as a customer. So I will show my support and buy their stuff... And if they don't f*** up majorly with their next games I will add CK III, Victoria III and HoI IV to my ever growing collection of paradox games

I also would pay for a package of 2-5 races. Or 5 new ship designs.

A package witch gives more diplomatic abilities. Or even for starbases.

4x_Fan wrote:
The only distributor, Steam, advertises the alpha as 25% off.



Part of my questioning here is that it's really really really unusual for a company to only offer a single distribution model (e.g. no direct download from their webpage ~ which makes a company more money and although they're planning a physical launch, which is completely stupid for the game quality / size, Steam is currently the sole source of the game) and to get a Steam deal before going gold.





There's a lot odd in the Amplitude business model, and choices: and frankly, the # content in the game isn't justifying it.





Oh, and you're slightly incorrect on Minecraft:



Alpha Price (Expired on Dec. 20, 2010): 10 Euros (~$13.55 US @ time it expired)



Beta Price (Current price): 15 Euros (~$19.36 US @ time of post)



Final Price (TBD): 20 Euros (~$25.81 US @ time of post)



Website lists it as always being E19,95

Ok I am really annoyed. I am happy to pay 10 dollars for a DLC for spies for this game, PERIOD. I work hard and my money can go where I want. I am happy to pay, leave the choice to ME. Please do not tell someone else how to distribute or sell their product. If you cannot pay or feel that you are cheated because of a product simply uninstall. Easy as pie. If they force us to pay for EVERY feature that YOU think should come 'installed for a game of this genre' I am HAPPY to pay for it! It would be MY choice and if I felt it was worth it I would do so. Clearly you think some features should be included and free, I disagree. I think they should charge us for any feature they think we will pay for. Again this is a choice issue. If you DO NOT LIKE the way they are doing it/selling/distributing, you do not have to pay. Simple!

maceman wrote:
My point being moderation in all things. any extreme ideas tend to be unhelpful for the human condition. Trying to connect a space game to North Korea is like talking about the menu at TGIF and the nutritional condition of the population in Eritrea.



This is one American speaking to another btw.



anyway. back to the topic at hand... my curiosity is sated. all are entitled to their opinion. Though talking about Bourgeoisie from the land of Nike... kinda feels ... :P

He was pretty relaxed, you and others reacted to the word and felt a bit uneasy. The worlds a big place, all beliefs can be misappropriated by governments and maligned by media. He has every right to an opinion related to the subject at hand, his political beliefs shouldn't have even been brought into question.

LoL, yeah good point

4x_Fan wrote:
Um, right.



Do you know anything about code?





Either the AI ignores 'fog of war', or it doesn't. If the AI doesn't use the "fog of war" then this question is moot. If, however, it does then it's a simple step to add if detection = -1 then visible = false. Viola, functional cloaking. All you're doing is making a conditional; essentially, you're saying that if detection = -1 or lower, then never remove the "fog of war". (And fyi ~ visible "fog of war" on the map is purely a visual report of code. If >or= to variable then visible=true etc).



e.g.





[/TABLE]

[TABLE="width:233"]
Class	Base Vis	Cloak Bonus
Transport	1	0
Corvette	1	2
Destroyer	2	1
Cruiser	2	0
Battleship	3	-1
Dreadnought	4	-2

In this case, if you used a tech 5 cloak (-5 detection) on a dreadnought, the end result would be +1 vis (so still visible).





I'd really have to pull some of the code to see if it's workable, but I can't think why it wouldn't be.







And no, it wouldn't be worth a fully paid DLC for the few days it'd take to code it. Some of the posters here are ridiculous. :rolleyes:







p.s.



@ mod ~ It's Frank Herbert, not Franck.

Why do you assume they're doing the detection like that ?



EDIt: oups for Herbert Thanks.

I wasn't being too sarcastic, I've played many games which are produced for free and distributed for free, some without any revenue source whatsoever, which are very good. Besides my being a communist (an american native raised in Alaska) it is very possible for such intellectual products to be released socially.

VieuxChat wrote:
But detection is only for the fog of war.

Um, right.



Do you know anything about code?





Either the AI ignores 'fog of war', or it doesn't. If the AI doesn't use the "fog of war" then this question is moot. If, however, it does then it's a simple step to add if detection = -1 then visible = false. Viola, functional cloaking. All you're doing is making a conditional; essentially, you're saying that if detection = -1 or lower, then never remove the "fog of war". (And fyi ~ visible "fog of war" on the map is purely a visual report of code. If >or= to variable then visible=true etc).



e.g.





[/TABLE]

[TABLE="width:233"]
Class	Base Vis	Cloak Bonus
Transport	1	0
Corvette	1	2
Destroyer	2	1
Cruiser	2	0
Battleship	3	-1
Dreadnought	4	-2

In this case, if you used a tech 5 cloak (-5 detection) on a dreadnought, the end result would be +1 vis (so still visible).





I'd really have to pull some of the code to see if it's workable, but I can't think why it wouldn't be.







And no, it wouldn't be worth a fully paid DLC for the few days it'd take to code it. Some of the posters here are ridiculous. :rolleyes:







p.s.



@ mod ~ It's Frank Herbert, not Franck.

what they have said from early on was they had put some basic thought into teh Espionage but weren't satisfied with the richness of the experience so decided to do it 'well' later. since most issues are clamoring about are basic core gameplay issues and combat... Espionage comes across comparitively as icing which can be applied once the base is sound.



Remember their objective right now is to get out a BETA... I am ceaselessly amazed at the expressed lack of understanding of some of the user base of the 'purpose' of an accessible Alpha release.



It is to participate in the making of the game! This is the Games2Gether model and it's a work in progress obviously.



Do they think the game is perfect. No! If you think something should be in the game. just say it. being constructive and polite helps. (it helps even more if you can take the time to find previous conversations on the topic to avoid unnecessary duplication but, well, yeah)



As in any consultative team format on any project presented issues can then be looked at from the perspective of the whole game requrements.



DLC? Not a hold when good content is 'withheld' just to get more money later. I don't feel that is the case here.

We'll get our mileage out of the alphas, betas and final release and, who knows, you may find your ideas integrated along the way which will make you feel closer to the final product.

4x_Fan wrote:
Yes; No.



http://unity3d.com/unity/whats-new/unity-3.5.1



Bad form to start pulling stuff open during an alpha, methinks. Although the XML is not written how I would:



[code]















[/code]



I'd not be too happy with mixing the "." and ",", but that's purely aesthetics.









However:



Detection is already coded.



A cloak is simply something that gives -detection.



If something is at -1 detection or lower then it's cloaked.



e.g.



Ship A: Cloak 3 = -3 detection.

Ship B: Brainwave Sensors = +6 Detection



Ship B can see Ship A.





Edit:



Since you're the mod, are you on the dev team or just a volunteer? If the former, get an answer on DLC, eh?

But detection is only for the fog of war. Having cloak devices would need another layer of data (like two fog of war) and the AI being aware of that. Detection and cloaking aren't so easy to do, I think.

Even though I'd like to see it, I prefer they just rip it off and concentrate on other problems (like the combat mechanics that need tweaking). I think they follow the mantra "Do it good, or don't do it", and I'm in favor of that.

halflotus wrote:
I strongly doubt that a substantial feature like espionage would be released in a free DLC. Typically free DLC is cosmetic additions or rather minor gameplay changes.



If it's a deal breaker for you, I'd say it's time to bail on Endless Space.

It would be sad to left Endless Space only for that, as it's not "Endless Espionnage". There's other things to work before thinking about a good espionnage system.

I strongly doubt that a substantial feature like espionage would be released in a free DLC. Typically free DLC is cosmetic additions or rather minor gameplay changes.



If it's a deal breaker for you, I'd say it's time to bail on Endless Space.

VieuxChat wrote:
Do you have any coding skills to say such thing ? Do you have insight into the code of the devs ?

Yes; No.



http://unity3d.com/unity/whats-new/unity-3.5.1



Bad form to start pulling stuff open during an alpha, methinks. Although the XML is not written how I would:



[code]















[/code]



I'd not be too happy with mixing the "." and ",", but that's purely aesthetics.









However:



Detection is already coded.



A cloak is simply something that gives -detection.



If something is at -1 detection or lower then it's cloaked.



e.g.



Ship A: Cloak 3 = -3 detection.

Ship B: Brainwave Sensors = +6 Detection



Ship B can see Ship A.





Edit:



Since you're the mod, are you on the dev team or just a volunteer? If the former, get an answer on DLC, eh?

4x_Fan wrote:
it doesn't take too much more coding to work in some rudimentary cloaks / espionage ideas.

Do you have any coding skills to say such thing ? Do you have insight into the code of the devs ?

Sharidann wrote:
Err .... you know they actually work for a living... how do you expect them to feed, lodge and clothe themselves and their families if they don't get paid ? And how do you expect Amplitude to be able to pay its employees without generating revenues through selling of the game ?

Yes: they work making games. I own the "Emperor" version of Endless Space ~ so the dev's get to eat their can of beans tonight partly due to me.



In return, I'd like a functioning end product, not "Hey, I know, we can release basic diplomacy and espionage for $9.99!". There's a massive difference between paying for a game & the big software companies' model of DLC; to ignore this is to make your input meaningless.





tldr; (for the bears of little brains here)





First software release ~ basic features = DLC --> Pirate Bay eats you alive, no-one buys your 2nd game (and you join the other 9+ software houses in Europe that went under last year)



First software release ~ basic features = lots of free content patches --> Loyal fan-base supports you & your families.







If you read the first post, all I'd like is a statement from the dev team: Is your business model paid DLC - Yes or No*?





If the answer is yes, I can stop wasting my time and chalk up buying into a paid alpha as a favour to an indy crew as a mistake. The rest of people's comments are largely irrelevant: my first post quoted a member of the dev team, so I'm waiting for a member of the dev team to respond.



Simple.











*Note: there's a difference between paid DLC & proper expansions. If you need this spelling out, you're either trolling or young, dumb & full of...

It is definitely oddly humorous for an Oregon resident to be quoting the Communist Manifesto... buncha tree huggers over there with no tans :P

So wait, you really are communist?!



Now see... with the tone of your posts... and the communist thing down below...



totally misread you and thought it was all a joke. turns out you're uber serious? fascinating :P



so wait American Native... or Native American? (I'm still reserving judgement on your whole thing)

Just mightily tired actually, and I guess you're right...

OTOH Arrowlance quotes the Manifest of the communist Party in his sig.

Xervitus wrote:
i think your sarcasm detector is borked Sharidann

i think your sarcasm detector is borked Sharidann

Err .... you know they actually work for a living... how do you expect them to feed, lodge and clothe themselves and their families if they don't get paid ? And how do you expect Amplitude to be able to pay its employees without generating revenues through selling of the game ?

ArrowLance wrote:
I hope that they don't charge for DLC, that is always just ridiculous. They shouldn't charge for the game either.

lurker wrote:

You're missing the point.



Name me a feature of the 'grand parents' of 4x that shouldn't be in a modern 4x game, and then we'll talk.



MoO II ~ I'm drawing a blank... pretty much had it all.

Ascendancy ~ Well, the dev team have already not used 3D so I guess that's a feature they decided not to use...





Hmm.



Let's try this again: name me a single feature of Endless Space that isn't a clone from a prior incarnation. Try it.

lurker wrote:
If you really expect that it should include every feature ever developed for a previous 4X game and still be perfectly balanced and bug free.. well, I think you're being unrealistic there.

Lose the fan-boy mentality ~ there's a difference between "not functioning diplomacy & espionage" and "every feature ever designed".





Or, do it another way: pull the bios of the people in the Amplitude crew, work out just why Steam allowed an alpha release (trust me: Steam are usually anally retentive about patches, let alone alpha/beta code) then stop apologising for them, and start demanding more. They have the talent, they've cashed in some industry kudos to get a Steam priority release / aid, so fucking use it.





"Waa waa too ambitious... maybe post patch" doesn't cut it, esp. for basics. Such as Diplomacy. Or Espionage. Hint: you've got the code for detection in, and there's multiple tool tips / skills that allow heroes to "steal dust" whilst in enemy space ~ it doesn't take too much more coding to work in some rudimentary cloaks / espionage ideas. Heck, I ever linked to Ascendancy's way of doing it, which was to give free tech if two other races researched it... durr pretty easy to code that in, and link it to either a tech research or a build. Since, you know, the game already does this in a special event (research burst; gives random lower level techs).