[Discussion] If You Voted Before the Hissho Logo/Pirate Decision... - Endless Space

[Discussion] If You Voted Before the Hissho Logo/Pirate Decision...

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Zougkla

Newcomer

Zougkla

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 9:46:50 PM

Kruos wrote:
Sorry but : "No".

Thank you for responding to the original intent of this thread, I respect you for your answer.

SomethingBlue wrote:
Is it logical then to have a re vote every single time the forums hit a membership landmark? Because according to your logic, it is what G2G stand for.

How many times do I have to say it!

This is a special situation, now that it is well known and noted on steam it is fair game. But before then it wasn't.

I am saying that G2G stands for community involvement. And you don't have the true community when the vast vast vast majority of people who would want to be in the community don't know about it. That would be like having a secret election then saying it would be unfair to "dismiss" the votes of those who found out about it.

SomethingBlue wrote:
Oh, and I should add that I did not get a chance to vote for the earlier items. But I still say no.

I looked on your profile and you joined on the 5th, so I am assuming that you did not mean what I initially thought you meant by "I did not get a chance".

I respect your opinion as well, but I still wish to have the revote.

PS: Igncom1, I am sorry I questioned your belief in G2G

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 8:51:31 PM

Whats fair is that you have a vote, whats not fair is changing the resualts of past votes just because people arrived late for the whole deal.

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SomethingBlue

Space Musician

SomethingBlue

Space Musician

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 8:54:15 PM

This is a classic example of "give and inch, and they take a mile". Leave it be man. They give us a little control, you want control from the moment the concept was started. You realize that in any normal case, you would not even get a chance to help the dev team with ideas? Much less have a small chance of creating a hero that may be included in the game.

While we are on the subject, I do not agree with the 1980 U.S presidential election, and since I was not born yet, I DEMAND that we hold a revote. I mean, a mere 200 million holds no candle to the 300 million community this nation has now.

See how silly that sounds?

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Zougkla

Newcomer

Zougkla

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 9:05:49 PM

That example has nothing to do with my argument.

I am immensely thankful to Amplitude for giving us a say in the art of the game and for listening to our suggestions.

I simply feel that having votes made before the game was announced and the community truly formed is against the spirit of Game2Gether.

If Amplitude disagrees with me, then I will accept that the moment they make it known. Until then I will argue, with logic and humility, that this violation of the ideals that G2G stands for be rectified.

Edit: Sorry if I seem overly passionate on this issue, it is just that I believe in democracy and am exited to see a game developer adopt this system. Thus, I wish to defend this blossom of an idea from what I see as attacks on it. Both from within and without.

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SomethingBlue

Space Musician

SomethingBlue

Space Musician

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 9:24:53 PM

Is it logical then to have a re vote every single time the forums hit a membership landmark? Because according to your logic, it is what G2G stand for.

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Kruos

Old Craver

Kruos

Old Craver

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 9:26:23 PM

Zougkla wrote:
If you voted in the Horatio bio/Sophon logo decision I would like to know if you would be OK with a revote on that and earlier votes.

Sorry but : "No".

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SomethingBlue

Space Musician

SomethingBlue

Space Musician

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 9:27:30 PM

Oh, and I should add that I did not get a chance to vote for the earlier items. But I still say no.

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Kryune

Newcomer

Kryune

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 9:38:40 PM

No. Happy with what was already decided upon. If anything, I say thanks to those who voted.

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Raptor

Newcomer

Raptor

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 9:42:20 PM

Zougkla wrote:

If they agree with me that it is unfair to give those who stumbled upon news of this game before it was announced or went on sale the only say in what should be true community involvement, they will side with me.

Following your logic we should revote everything when the Beta comes, cause there would be a lot of new people that will join at that very point and afterwards. Then when the game gets released we should revote again cause someone might not like our choices so far and would like a DLC fixing all the game elements voted so far. That's just irrational. There are plenty of elements to vote for in the future so settle down. Since the forums have been opened it's been a non-stop increase of the member base, also some of the game elements needed to be voted early to open the way for others. G2G as an initiative had to start, did start and it's awesome as it is and serves its purpose. Enjoy it and look at the future instead of digging into the first elements voted. I'm happy and thankful that we even have this opportunity so let's not spoil it

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Zougkla

Newcomer

Zougkla

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 8:47:58 PM

This decision is ultimately not up to me or you, it is in the hands of Amplitude.

If they think that those found this game first should have the only say on these aesthetics, they will side with you.

If they agree with me that it is unfair to give those who stumbled upon news of this game before it was announced or went on sale the only say in what should be true community involvement, they will side with me.

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 9:49:51 PM

Zougkla wrote:
PS: Igncom1, I am sorry I questioned your belief in G2G

I am no heritic!

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Zougkla

Newcomer

Zougkla

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 9:57:52 PM

Raptor wrote:
Following your logic we should revote everything when the Beta comes, cause there would be a lot of new people that will join at that very point and afterwards. Then when the game gets released we should revote again cause someone might not like our choices so far and would like a DLC fixing all the game elements voted so far. That's just irrational. There are plenty of elements to vote for in the future so settle down. Since the forums have been opened it's been a non-stop increase of the member base, also some of the game elements needed to be voted early to open the way for others. G2G as an initiative had to start, did start and it's awesome as it is and serves its purpose. Enjoy it and look at the future instead of digging into the first elements voted. I'm happy and thankful that we even have this opportunity so let's not spoil it

I am happy and thankful for this opportunity as well, but I still think it goes against the spirit of G2G.

My logic does not say we should revote when we get to beta or on any other occasions because now the game is well known and virtually everyone who is interested knows about it and has the choice of buying it now and getting involved.

Before the announcement and steam release virtually no one knew about it and thus I see those votes as invalid.

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Raptor

Newcomer

Raptor

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 10:08:12 PM

Zougkla wrote:

Before the announcement and steam release virtually no one knew about it and thus I see those votes as invalid.

Well I don't see them as invalid, even those votes that have been casted before I registered. I see them as valid, why? Because they are coming from the community, yes all these people who registered before the pre-orders became available WERE the community and now ARE part of the community. Just like all of us will be just a part of the community one month from now. As I said G2G has had to start at some point and that point was not up to us to decide and I'm sure there had been a number of reasons involved in taking the decision when exactly to launch this initiative. I'm happy with how it is going so far even if I haven't participated in all the votes and (surprise!) not all the elements I voted for have been announced winners

Zougkla wrote:
now the game is well known and virtually everyone who is interested knows about it and has the choice of buying it now and getting involved.

I also will have to disagree here, not going to get into serious arguments, I'll just say numbers speak for themselves. Since pre-orders came online the forum grew immensely and it is still growing, and will continue to grow. Obviously "virtually everyone who is interested" haven't registered yet but will continue to do so.

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Zougkla

Newcomer

Zougkla

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 10:27:08 PM

I would have liked for the voting to have started when it was released on Steam, there is no reason why it couldn't have started then.

I just don't think that those "Space Ninjas" who registered first should have voted for the community because even though they were the community at that time, there were thousands who wanted to be in the community but didn't stumble upon it.

All votes after the steam release are valid because the vast majority of those who would want to join the community found out about it in that first week and after that it was their choice whether to buy the game.

Amplitude has the final say and as I have make my case several times, I will take a break from this topic.

I rest my case.

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Naisho

Informer

Naisho

Informer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 10:38:15 PM

Sometimes the forest is hard to see through the trees.

Whether the community is large or small the purpose of G2G is for their involvement in the game. It is not about All of our involvement, but that a portion of it had the ability to make decisions.

Those before us as our fellows in the community were involved for us, and now we are involved with them. It is about the community and not individual choices that one of us may have. G2G is the building of something together, but we must see the legitimacy of previous decisions.

My vote today is just as legitimate as their vote yesterday, and no one has the right to demand their vote be delegitimatized. Even if I disagree with their choices I say every ultimate choice made was with the full legitimacy as if I too cast my vote for it.

That is what I believe it means to G2G. It doesn't matter if my vote lost or I wasn't able to cast a vote as the community is fully legitimate in my eyes.

Is the community illegitimate in your eyes?

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Ren_Shredder

Newcomer

Ren_Shredder

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 11:11:18 PM

Zougkla wrote:
I would have liked for the voting to have started when it was released on Steam, there is no reason why it couldn't have started then.

Actually I can think of several very good reasons why it couldn't have started then.

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Raptor

Newcomer

Raptor

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 6:28:40 AM

Alright, the OP rested his case got some opinions too, thread closed/

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Zougkla

Newcomer

Zougkla

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 7:13:26 PM

If you voted in the Horatio bio/Sophon logo decision I would like to know if you would be OK with a revote on that and earlier votes.

I feel that, because the game was yet to be released and the community was miniscule, it would be good to include those who have joined the community sense then in the decisions.

Edit: This thread is the result of and now a continuation of the conversation at https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/11063-games2gether-vote

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Ren_Shredder

Newcomer

Ren_Shredder

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 8:42:22 PM

Zougkla wrote:
Do you at least agree that they should not have done voting before the game went on sale?

No. The game was in development before it was on Steam, the devs could obviously not wait with developing the game until steam got around to put their game in their shop. If you knew the game was coming, were interested in it and made an account here, great, good for you. If you just learned about it when it came to Steam, well, still good for you, now you can vote on all the votes that are yet to come. I really don't see how anything else could be fairer.

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Zufax

Newcomer

Zufax

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 8:40:08 PM

Well, I dont see why you dwell on this, I dont really care that I didnt get to vote on something this far back. I mean if it has already been voted for might aswell stick with it. Though at the same time I wont mind re-voting

smiley: stickouttongue

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 8:38:54 PM

No, i very much agree with it, and it still fulfils its purpose, no matter what the current community size is when the votes are.

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Zougkla

Newcomer

Zougkla

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 8:35:51 PM

So you disagree with the goal and spirit of Games2Gether?

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 8:32:55 PM

no, we do not decide how the games development progresses.

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Zougkla

Newcomer

Zougkla

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 8:31:30 PM

Do you at least agree that they should not have done voting before the game went on sale?

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Ren_Shredder

Newcomer

Ren_Shredder

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 8:27:57 PM

I think redoing votes is almost always a bad thing. It makes people angry, and it seems like you aren't content with the vote and try to redo the vote until you're happy with it.

The people who stuck with the game from the beginning were its community back then, its first fans and supporters. Why is the community now more entitled to vote than the community back then? Why should their vote be dismissed?

Redoing the first votes would be unfair, and being angry for being excluded from votes which took place before you bought the game, registered here or even knew about the game is silly and self-centred.

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 8:27:09 PM

Zougkla wrote:
I am not calling for a revote every time someone joins the forums!

I am just saying that the very few "Space Ninjas" who found this before it was released shouldn't have been given such privileges.

They shouldn't have done any votes before it went on sale but, sense they did, we should have a say.

Now that it is advertised on Steam and review websites have taken note, however, it is fare game.

Its always a hazzard to not be one of the first people to get to these sorts of things, but thats the way the world works, and you will just have to deal with it.

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Radon

Newcomer

Radon

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 8:26:55 PM

I agree, i feel that because i was late to the scene with steam, that the majority of the good content has been decided upon. It would be nice for a revote assuming the work hasn't already been put into the content. With whenever the promo/pre-order cutoff is being the day of revoting. And then give everybody a week to voice their opinions on the votes through G2G, then lock them down again?

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Zougkla

Newcomer

Zougkla

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 8:18:27 PM

I am not calling for a revote every time someone joins the forums!

I am just saying that the very few "Space Ninjas" who found this before it was released shouldn't have been given such privileges.

They shouldn't have done any votes before it went on sale but, sense they did, we should have a say.

Now that it is advertised on Steam and review websites have taken note, however, it is fare game.

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Gordon

Newcomer

Gordon

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 8:08:36 PM

Igncom1 wrote:
They cant keep rolling back votes when more people join, nothing would get done.

Was about to say the same. Then every single vote would have to be re-rolled again.

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Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 8:08:26 PM

Well the cut off for pre-order bonuses is soon, they wouldn't keep rolling the votes back after that

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 8:07:15 PM

They cant keep rolling back votes when more people join, nothing would get done.

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Zougkla

Newcomer

Zougkla

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 8:03:21 PM

I would accept that.

I looked a couple days ago on the achievements page and about 700 or 7% of the population had gotten the 1 week achievement, so I extrapolate that there were about 10,000 accounts as of a couple days ago.

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Maclardal

Newcomer

Maclardal

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 7:45:49 PM

I wasn't here before the Hissho logo vote, so ignore me if you feel my opinion is invalid, but here it is:

It would be better for the overall community to receive these votes again, so a larger player base has a say in the end result. However, those of you that were here before the might of Steam caused your ranks to swell should have your votes automatically recast in this new vote, but given weight based on the current user population as you guys are clearly the more dedicated, for following and voting before a game was available.

As an example, if the community is 100 times the size, perhaps your votes should be weighted 30 times greater than they were. As if you had 30 times the number of G2G points hat you actually did when you voted. By the way, these numbers are just examples not what I think would be good values.

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