[Discussion] is Endless Space too shallow? - Endless Space

[Discussion] is Endless Space too shallow?

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some areas are over-baked

I like the minimalist approach - kudos to ES for bringing the core elements back to the fore

there are areas that need growing

I am disgusted by the lack of features; if this is 4x it's baby's first 4x

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waitingtoconnect

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waitingtoconnect

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13 years ago

May 7, 2012, 1:52:36 PM

I would like diversity in the way races behave:

1) Hive minded races obey the leadership and do not deviate from policy

2) Races like humans relish freedom and even military units will do what suits them from time to time starting wars, colonial uprisings, corruption etc.

3) Mixes in between. For example a military that never disobeys orders but a mercantile class that

4) Multiculturalism and assimilation aka MOO2,

5) Immigration and emigration with people leaving your empire and joining others and vice versa.

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BlueTemplar

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BlueTemplar

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13 years ago

May 7, 2012, 2:56:31 PM

PolytheistGoat wrote:
Some of us have been waiting ages for a game that looks as if it'll focus more on strategy and exploration than combat - which, in my personal opinion, is the same in every game ever created; whomever gets there with the fastest and the mostest wins. You can dress it up all you want, but if I'm playing a game, I'd rather have new things to think about and act on every turn... Not spend an increasing amount of time and processing power dealing with something that - regardless of weapon type, manner of engagement, etc - basically boils down to whose rock is bigger.

It seems you haven't played SotS 1 much. Your research/design choices and the way you fight are often more important than the firepower you bring, sometimes dramatically so : it's not that uncommon to have a situation where the automatic combat means crushing defeat while you get a flawless victory by playing the combat yourself...

The thing that worries me about Endless Space is that once you've discovered all the ways you can build up your empire, there will be only the combat left to entertain you, and this part seems quite shallow (though to be fair I haven't been to the endgame yet...)

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HolyTerror

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HolyTerror

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13 years ago

May 7, 2012, 8:55:28 PM

I agree with most, the game has a nice core. but needs to grow.

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LSF

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LSF

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13 years ago

May 7, 2012, 9:48:28 PM

Its a very good game, and I think it looks to be a healthy alpha. But some things, such as the tech tree, diplomatic relationships with AIs and planetary invasion could use some filling out. I'd like to see a little more to invasion than sitting in system with a fleet and waiting, even if its just another rock paper scissors style battle. You have ground attack modifier units for ships, but I have tried using 'barge' or troop ship equipped ships which focus on nothing else. They don't actually seem to be worth being defenseless in space as a large space focused fleet captures ground just as fast.

Also please add a 4th type of damage/defense for space combat. I think its nearly there but it just needs one extra option to be really good. Fighter/strike craft or space mines, or some creative seldom used damage type would be nice to see.

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Haldurson

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Haldurson

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13 years ago

May 9, 2012, 6:08:30 AM

I feel that there is potential to have a good game, but I also don't feel that it's there yet.

As far as those that want more to ship design, remember that there isn't any real tactical combat, and without that, a whole lot of ship design options would be fairly meaningless, except to fill in statistical gaps, or to make different movies to watch (Because honestly, combat feels more like I'm watching a movie than engaging in combat). That's why I'm suggesting a total opposite approach, to streamline combat a lot more. The battle cards idea is ok, but I feel that the design is confused -- the main advantage of the battle cards approach is that its fast. But having to then watch a slow-moving film after every combat is initiated, becomes kind of pointless after the first time seeing it. So as long as we're going the quick combat way, let's drop the pretense of tactical combat (because it's not there and never will be), and simply select the cards then resolve the combat quickly.

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thelovebat

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thelovebat

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13 years ago

May 9, 2012, 7:24:29 AM

Loth wrote:
While the audio sound tracks are quite good, more random events, space chatter, etc would liven up the mundane rotine parts of the game system mechanics. I enjoy getting those random notes of exploration, we need more stuff like that!

This, definitely this.

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thelovebat

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thelovebat

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13 years ago

May 9, 2012, 7:25:32 AM

AngleWyrm wrote:
Some areas need growing.

For instance, the Trade Routes system has tech in the tech tree, and buildable modules for planets, and heroes have skills in it. But the trade system is simulated. There's no game play. I would like to set up trade routes between planets, and examine what is the most profitable routes to choose.

And this. Would love it if we could see the possible returns of different or risky trade routes.

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mark1e

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mark1e

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13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 4:40:31 PM

Tactical combat people, tactical combat is a must. Look at the good old MOO. Add planetary defenses, maybe also surface combat and most of all get rid of the overly simplistic "card playing" nonsense that nobody wants. You won't sell a 1000 copies this way and those will be angry customers like me that expected tactical combat.

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grasspuddle

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grasspuddle

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13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 5:26:40 PM

hoping the alpha will add more depth as it continues. Everything looks like a solid, but unfinished product. Combat, Democracy, Ships, UI, and Heroes need more added.

With that said, I'm shocked by how complete this alpha build is. It only crashed on the infinite fleet bug so far after a few play throughs.

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HolyTerror

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HolyTerror

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13 years ago

May 14, 2012, 1:53:07 PM

lol it is a beta, it is more about making sure the core system works, than adding depth.

grasspuddle wrote:
hoping the alpha will add more depth as it continues. Everything looks like a solid, but unfinished product. Combat, Democracy, Ships, UI, and Heroes need more added.

With that said, I'm shocked by how complete this alpha build is. It only crashed on the infinite fleet bug so far after a few play throughs.

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bro

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bro

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13 years ago

May 14, 2012, 2:01:04 PM

It'd be nice to be able to do more than just blockade an enemy system. Orbital bombardment similar to MOO would be nice and simple. Same with ground warfare.

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MrAgmoore

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MrAgmoore

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13 years ago

May 15, 2012, 5:49:06 PM

I need smarter AI. I'd like to see the AI at least match Master of Orion 2.

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quastebec

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quastebec

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13 years ago

May 6, 2012, 12:50:28 PM

While the game is great for an alpha version so far. It needs to be heavily expanded i think.

But the three main points of me would be:

1. Improve the battle mechanics. (no, or at least less, rock-paper-scissor, more cards to play, ability to play more cards than three and so on ... there have been many suggestions)

2. More diversity in the tech tree, which would, perhaps, require more complex mechanics in some areas, because right now, its just construction building I - IV, laser I - IV, building, weapon or shield I - IV ... which is boring if everything obsoletes the old one ever, or is just to be build mindless on top of the old buildings ...

3. and perhaps more mechanics which limit expansion more effectiv? right now i had the feeling that one has to pump out colony ships from turn 4 on, until one reaches the AI borders ... and then an endless war is to begin which becomes boring because the battle system is right now endlessly repetitive and utterly unchalanging ....

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Voyevoda

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Voyevoda

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13 years ago

May 6, 2012, 8:08:48 AM

I feel that it does need to be grown in some areas, but that's why its an alpha! I'm really looking forward to what they bring to the table in the future!

smiley: biggrin

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Aerensiniac

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Aerensiniac

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13 years ago

May 6, 2012, 8:14:19 AM

Well... you know my favorite quote! "Refer to the link in my signature".

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MT4K

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MT4K

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13 years ago

May 6, 2012, 8:14:56 AM

I agree some areas do need a bit of work, but i as well do like the simple design they have going and would hate to see that be lost. It's probably a hard thing to balance out, but i have faith in Amplitude. They have shown good promise so far.

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Loth

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Loth

Old

13 years ago

May 6, 2012, 8:30:54 AM

I am only 4 hours in so take it for what it is worth since these things might be already in the game...

I am really liking what I see so far in just an alpha version and I feel the game has a solid foundation. However, the game would benefit of the fine nuances and touches of polish that take it from a good game to an outstanding game.

-While the audio sound tracks are quite good, more random events, space chatter, etc would liven up the mundane rotine parts of the game system mechanics. I enjoy getting those random notes of exploration, we need more stuff like that!

-Dynamic galaxy events that change the map, maybe a star happens to go supernova, black hole gets to close to a system, etc

-More personality in regards to the player- who are you? why are you in power, etc

i am sure a lot of these things will come in time, but I just want to make sure they are not forgotten since the narrative is almost as important as the mechanics in these types of games.

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dcarnachan

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dcarnachan

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13 years ago

May 6, 2012, 8:34:36 AM

there are some areas that could be developed but overall i like the simplicity of it all - i actually hope the devs keep it simple(ish) and dont go overboard to requests to add 'complexity'

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Aerensiniac

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Aerensiniac

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13 years ago

May 6, 2012, 10:20:29 AM

DuddBudda wrote:
I myself believe the core mechanics of 4x games are, perhaps uniquely, clean and clear-cut in ES and would be sorry to see the game pressured into feature creep as it counts down to launch

Its impossible for me to comprehend this opinion. It just makes no sense.

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AngleWyrm

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AngleWyrm

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13 years ago

May 6, 2012, 10:21:30 AM

Some areas need growing.

For instance, the Trade Routes system has tech in the tech tree, and buildable modules for planets, and heroes have skills in it. But the trade system is simulated. There's no game play. I would like to set up trade routes between planets, and examine what is the most profitable routes to choose.

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