I suppose we could do it for all of the races again just to compare?

Zentay wrote:
Too much whining from Sower players who don't like that they're no longer dominant.

You obviously didn't read the post.

Igncom1 wrote:
Considering the slower nature of the Sowers, perhaps we should do a 120 turn challenge for them, in order to graph their effectiveness in a game?

That would be an interesting thing to do, but that wouldn't help about balancing to tell which one is better or worse.

Considering the slower nature of the Sowers, perhaps we should do a 120 turn challenge for them, in order to graph their effectiveness in a game?

Too much whining from Sower players who don't like that they're no longer dominant.

davea wrote:
It may be worthwhile for all of us to *try* the new balancing before deciding to be angry. The "flash poll" by the dev team clearly indicated we all thought cravers and sowers were too strong, and UE and hissho were too weak. So they buffed UE and hissho, while nerfing cravers and sowers.

First, I've tried this patch, and this is why I posted this feedback. And I'm more dissapointed by the update than angry or even "hating".



Second, that's exactly what I said : sowers and cravers were too strong, as showed by the flash poll. But that doesn't mean the balancing patch will change anything, it just will be another factions that will be overpowered, and another underpowered. I don't care which are strong, which are weak, i'm against that whole thing of balancing just by trying to get all factions get the same way to play, with slightly different small bonuses. If every factions are the same, why making 8 and not 1 ?

Yes, sowers were too strong, and they had to change. But now, you changed the gameplay, so they need to play like the others, not focusing on industry, and even like that, they got really weak now.

The change that has been done in this patch is that every factions that were strong because they had a unique gameplay, very different from the others, were nerfed so they can't play it anymore. And I think it's better to give each faction his own traits that getting them all the same.

amazingPhil wrote:
The way to go here is not nerv Sowers and Amoebae (and Amoebae was far from overpowered). The way would have been to improve the other races. You can't play Sowers anymore. I tested it and it is simply impossible to stay in game. Why the heck give them Space Cadets?

There are different aspects in the game mechanic that every race relies on:

Hissho - War

Amoebae - Trade

UE - Dust

Sowers - Industry

Horatio - Food (Heros)

Sophons - Research

Pilgrims - Approval

Cravers - Total War



You should focus making races good and unique in their field and not bad in others.



In their defence: After all it's a beta and it's the right place to try it.

Agree, you said it better than I did. And yes it's beta, but that's also why we have to say what we think is wrong or right (and that's what we did in the polls).





Also, Buecherwyrm, I was the sowers in that game, my IG name is Archimedes (or [unknown]) and I didn't thought it was that much balanced. In fact, I was unable to do anything out of my arm, because my systems had few pop, and so, low industry, science and dust. I started with the AI that got some good systems, quite better than all the others had, and even with it, everything was falling apart, unhappiness, FIDS, I started 1st and ended 4th, military, I had no ships. And the strongest factions in the game were the UE, the Horatios and the Sophons. You had like 1000 score as 1st with Horatio, while I was 3rd with 700 at the end.

Slightly renamed the title.

Yesternight I had a chance to play some MP as well and I was pretty surprised how balanced the game actually felt now - none of the races were dominating all others (except maybe for the UE which was throwing bribes of hundreds of Dust around while all others had about 100 or so Dust).



Nonetheless I partly agree with AmazingPhil: I would rather see the races being not quite as good at one thing and not have a debuff instead of them excelling and getting a huge debuff.



I also had the impression that the game was slower in regards to research and population growth with big dissatifaction caused by expansion - was there some undocumented change to that as well? The change to the transformation of Industry to Science or Gold is major debuff making those much less appealling - unluckily you sometimes don't have much a choice, not sure if I like that. Maybe the transformation effiency could be raised slightly (to something like 35% or 40%).



Technology trading with other races has become useless as well, other races don't really acknowledge any offered technology at all, if they are asked to trade one of theirs. Kinda annoying as Tech Trade is very common in MP-games and usually you trade for the same amount of Tech Points (although weapons are often not traded as freely as others).



Also some texts in the game contradict the patch-notes - i.e. the game claims that the Hissho gain "Metallic Waters", while patch-notes say they gain a "Huygens Ring" IIRC. The Sherydan-Faction also still has the "Unlucky Colonists" (at least in their description). It was late yesternight, so I can't recall all of them ;-)



Best regards, Buecherwyrm

davea wrote:
It may be worthwhile for all of us to *try* the new balancing before deciding to be angry. The "flash poll" by the dev team clearly indicated we all thought cravers and sowers were too strong, and UE and hissho were too weak. So they buffed UE and hissho, while nerfing cravers and sowers.

The way to go here is not nerv Sowers and Amoebae (and Amoebae was far from overpowered). The way would have been to improve the other races. You can't play Sowers anymore. I tested it and it is simply impossible to stay in game. Why the heck give them Space Cadets?

There are different aspects in the game mechanic that every race relies on:

Hissho - War

Amoebae - Trade

UE - Dust

Sowers - Industry

Horatio - Food (Heros)

Sophons - Research

Pilgrims - Approval

Cravers - Total War



You should focus making races good and unique in their field and not bad in others.



In their defence: After all it's a beta and it's the right place to try it.

Gotta quit hating, balance patches are really cool because when u try the races affected u have to develop new ways of playing them to take advantage, I never really liked playing Sowers or amoeba cuz I thought they were alittle unfair, Now it's Sowers all the way, interested to see how the changes will affect my playstyle

Made a quick video about the new patch notes, so far I am glad the changes happened as they did.

It may be worthwhile for all of us to *try* the new balancing before deciding to be angry. The "flash poll" by the dev team clearly indicated we all thought cravers and sowers were too strong, and UE and hissho were too weak. So they buffed UE and hissho, while nerfing cravers and sowers.

I totaly agree with this. The cravers loosing both their military affinities make them really weak, and the sowers now have to produce food related building...