EadTaes wrote:
It's easy to block a trade race like that. You need only to not make peace with them. If you remain in cold-war or war with the player there will be no trade. So just don't go to peace with them and if you check the diplo window and see he is a peace with someone else and he is to far away from you attack then attack the guy he is at peace with. If you take away the player he's getting the bonuses from he gets none.

Incorrect. As was stated just a couple posts above yours, the Blockade Breakers trait specifically allows you to trade with empires with whom you are in Cold War status, or even a declared war.

But if a fix is need then you would need only to add a condition research int he diplo tree that would create a trade agreement. If booth players do not create/accept a trade agreement then their should be no trade.

That is almost precisely what a Peace Treaty IS. Blockade Breaker simply circumvents the trade aspect of the treaty.

You tend to underestimate those traderoutes and laugh about people playing custom races, which are trimmed to max out traderoutes and abuse blockadebreaker. But after turn 100 when he has double of your FIDS you actually start thinking, what may went wrong, but then it's too late.

Well i never had a 100 turns game. 80 turns max on large size. I mean the winner is already decided by that turn.



If you spawn close to aggressive player by the turn he discovers wormhole there will be 2, 700 mp fleet on your closest world to him. For example cravers has 25% bonus on everything from the very beginning and because he went all military traits and you went trade and pop his fleets will just trash everything you throw on him. After 15 turns you will lose half your worlds.

CaptainPsilon wrote:
Well i never had a 100 turns game. 80 turns max on large size. I mean the winner is already decided by that turn.



If you spawn close to aggressive player by the turn he discovers wormhole there will be 2, 700 mp fleet on your closest world to him. For example cravers has 25% bonus on everything from the very beginning and because he went all military traits and you went trade and pop his fleets will just trash everything you throw on him. After 15 turns you will lose half your worlds.

I didnt try out Cravers yet with their 25% FIDS-bonus at start. But it takes too lang to invade his colonies. He can just switch to industry production and pump out fleets too.

Uhm, correct if I'm wrong but doesn't forming traderoute require you to be either peace, co-operation or in alliance with player you want to trade with?

I mean surely traderoutes don't work if you are in cold-war or war with other (or if works thats bug).



Therefore player shouldn't be able to abuse traderoutes unless someone else accepts his offer of peace.

Hupailija wrote:
Uhm, correct if I'm wrong but doesn't forming traderoute require you to be either peace, co-operation or in alliance with player you want to trade with?

I mean surely traderoutes don't work if you are in cold-war or war with other (or if works thats bug).



Therefore player shouldn't be able to abuse traderoutes unless someone else accepts his offer of peace.

You are basically right, but there is a trait (Pilgrim I think) called "Blockade Breaker", wich allows you to maintain trade routes even in Cold War and War (even if the system is blocked).

In combination with the Amoeba Affinity (visiion to the whole map) and Trade improving traints like Merchant you have a very powerfull Race with unstoppable trade routes.



In my opinion, trade is fine but blockade breaker is just way overpowered. Maybe restrict it in war or let the trade routes scale with peace (cold war -1 Trade route, war -2 trade routes,.... peace +- 0 cooperation/alliance +1)?



BR

Alris

@Hupailija

Look at Blockade Breaker trait. It allows Trade routes in war/cold war state, also when system is blockaded.



@liquidGG Conquering system takes 4 turns(if your fleet is large enough).

Hissho, Cravers, Sowers are considered to be most aggressive affinities. And somehow players tends to attack Sophons and Amoeba first. If there's no wormhole that defend you from Hissho then you might not live long enough to build up trade bonus.

I think blockade breakers should be more expensive



probably 10 points is right value

Kaoschan wrote:
Building a Custom Race with Amoeba Affinity + Merchants + Diplomats + Blockade Breakers (the big point) is seriously overpowered in term of economic power.

As soon as you get the First Contact with any Race, the Traderoutes start to get active in a gigantic fashion (4 homeworld, 2 for other system) yielding an enormous amount of money and sciene.

So much it feel a bit gamebreaking, especially because Blockade Breakers has a cost of 6 Points (which is way to low).



Some of the Custom Trait Points need a serious rebalance.

Trade Empires are specialized, thus they have to be powerful in their domain (and yes, traderoutes are quite powerful). Just use an aggressive, military approach in multiplayer games and they fall easy enough (they have not even one military trait).

It's easy to block a trade race like that. You need only to not make peace with them. If you remain in cold-war or war with the player there will be no trade. So just don't go to peace with them and if you check the diplo window and see he is a peace with someone else and he is to far away from you attack then attack the guy he is at peace with. If you take away the player he's getting the bonuses from he gets none.



In short war is a preferable state to be in to nerf other peoples empires. I had some people I had been at war with for 50-100 turns and taken no hostile action against them.



But if a fix is need then you would need only to add a condition research int he diplo tree that would create a trade agreement. If booth players do not create/accept a trade agreement then their should be no trade.

Just for the point, I made an Amoeba race with Blockade Breaker and Merchant x 2.



It's turn 22. From various trade routes, I have a science income of 45.5. This yields a total science of 119. That means without the trade routes, I would only have 73.5 science. That's a 61.9% bonus to science from just trade routes. That is absolutely substantial.

Blockade breakers then should only affect your self on your system. IE if enemy fleet comes to your system that system doesn't lose it's trade bonus and can still export it's luxury/strategic resource. It should not allow you to create trade routes with enemies. But I haven't seen many blockade Breakers that have lived fast the 50 turn limit. I then to go and knock out people that send peace treaties first. :P.





Or at least it should work booth ways. The person with the trait would get a better bonus because he has the otehr trade traits, but the guy who is being Blockad Breaked should be able to trade with the guy as well in return.

Unfortunately, your suggestion of just eliminating the main effect of Blockade Breakers nukes the entire concept of an economic race pretty badly. What would you give them to balance out the fact that their entire collection of picks is dead weight and has effectively cost them the game if everyone refuses peace? I'm sure you'd be screaming bloody murder if someone suggested, say, an early planetary tech that prevents other players from ever invading your systems.

I have an idea, what if an opponent makes 1/3 off of your the trade as well? Trade at the moment feels incredibly selfish at the moment, and could be combined with a political relations boost.



But in the end it would also buff anybody you trade with.

Maybe make Blockade Breakers only half as effective when not at peace with the target?

I like your idea, sounds like a good compromise.

It would certainly be a good starting point.

Agreed about 50% in war and cold war situations.

Additionally, if you have blockade breakers and are trading with another planet, that planet (or to be more precise, the opposing player that owns that planet). should be benefiting from the trade as well (I believe that is not the case right now - it is a one way only thing for blockade breakers, but I could be wrong).

Just increase cost to 10



It is not overpowered. I steamrolled everyone in mp who tried that strat. The game is over by turn 50 usually.

I absolutely agree with this! After I read it here, I tried this combination have been winning my games ever since. The FIDS just skyrocket and one has so much more research than other factions. The earlier one gets certain techs, the more influence this has on the rest of the game, like a caskade. In my opinion the ability "blockade braker" should be removed, it is too strong even for the Pilgrims. As races are reluctant to make peace, and thus "normal" races have problems getting all their trade routes used, the trait is just too powerful and provides too many advantages. It really brakes the game, not just the blockades.