I think if the combat became tactical it would become a huge drag on MP. I would go further and suggest that in MP, you should be able to pick your cards without having to go into the 3D combat screen which is visually cool (and great for SP), but impedes on MP flow especially while you're waiting for others to play out their battles.



I kinda like this streamlined card-approach although I would like to see more incentive to diversify hulls, perhaps through a clever extension to the card system. But then again, I wasn't a huge fan of tactical combat in MOO2.

I agree with what Igncom1 and others have said: battle cards do make a difference, and with the cards as well as types and amount of ships used, I think combat does offer its share of variety. Perhaps not as much as other games, but I think this ship has sailed now and the Devs won't discard their "vision" and start again from

scratch

i like the current combat system as it is

When talking about cinematic combat, dominions 3 sets the standard. The ability to preconfigure the deployment of your troops on the battlefield, arbitrary squads and per squad orders are a must. Have a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BACIXsDjEkE&feature=player_detailpage#t=370s

The current system is perfect for MP, and that's what I like. Though this is hugely offset by the strange simultaneous-turn treatment. What I could see being done is just adding a lot of variety into battle cards, like increasing their numbers 5x-10x, and possibly adding single-use cards (that you have to actually produce and that are consumed in the battle. Like action cards from the board game Twilight Imperium). But this system is a miracle for multiplayer, even if it needs some balance tweaks atm and some more variety

coldsteel wrote:
I kinda like this streamlined card-approach although I would like to see more incentive to diversify hulls, perhaps through a clever extension to the card system.

Like this!



On a serious note, I complete dig the current battle mechanic approach. If there was one thing that our little private PvP MP group discovered it was that certain players amongst us had a knack for getting the most out of tactical combat. The ES approach is a great leveller and allows the more strategically minded to adequately take on the RTS twitch-gamers amongst us. Fix the AI, the imbalances and the weird combat moves turn sequencing and we’ll be on to a winner.

A few weeks ago when I began playing the game I was fine with the current combat system...



However now, after a little over 15 000 turns spread over a bunch of single player games, I just wish there could be a turn based combat.



All the things that could be added, modified, improved and changed.



You could used different builds to counter different things from the ai, and I guess other players.



But right now, as is, I just feel like I have to spam a bunch of small ships to overwhelm everyone and then ... well that's it. That's how I win early on. Then late game, go for the Dreadies, make them super tanks and just sit as my 1 fleet and fleet commander destroy the entire neighbour's armada on one side...



I don't know, it feels like it's missing something but I don't quite know if turn based combat everytime I decided to invade my neighour is the solution because I don't really want to have to turn base combat vs 20-50 feelts one after the other.



(I haven't played multiplayer yet... my 4xgames are mostly single players due to my scheduling)

While I do believe the current battle system holds it's own, much like Galactic Civ II's combat which was also hands off and based on statistics and ship specs than anything else (read: biggest gun wins) I feel that since the devs went so far as to put in a card minigame to go with the combat than let the thing have more impact in battle.

I voted for the current combat system, but I would like to see more cards, some faction-only cards, and also more animations such as ships doing crazy tactics when the "Tactics" card is chosen. I do appreciate how the weapon fire looks different for different builds and other animations like the custom animations for the hero card abilities.



I just want to add, after reading all the comments, that I am not a fanatical yes-man, and I look forward to seeing how the ship combat compares and contrasts in LoP. But I do love this game more than any game I've played in a long time.

I love the way the combat is handled. I love the almost trading-card style manual battles and the camera used for these battles is still rather engaging. I wish there were more choices to choose from in battle though, or cosmetic changes added to ships to represent upgrades.

I really like the combat system current.



However it would have some improvements:

- More cards

- Maps specific to each faction

- The ability to choose the weapon used during each phase

As i already said plenty of times i am huge fan of MOO and turn based games in general. I was excited when i heard about ES since i havent played a 4X game for a long time but also i was kinda confused and disappointed when i heard the battle was cinematic. Although i bought the game and cant say that i dont like the current battle system. But as i said i like it i am not excited about it.

The devs i believe made the best choice for the combat but its the best choice for multiplayer games. Personaly i havent played ES in multiplayer yet and i dont think 4X games should be focused around it.

I want a slow paced relaxing game like Civ series with the momentary thrill of combat. Currently i dont think ES have it since most of my battles end before phase 2 and the glass cannon tactics the AI uses.

But also the game would be better in the future. The G2G tactic the devs are following is a great asset and i believe the game will get better and better. I voted for turn based combat but i doubt we will see a change like this right now (at least on ES 1 :green

I really like the current System. Maybe expand it a little with more and different Cards - but it's fine the way it is. The important thing is Ship Design - you win or lose based on your fleet composition. This is nice.



Combat like in Sins of a Solar Empire or something is complicated and more often than not it ♥♥♥♥s up the gameplay. Even MoO2 had lots of battles that just sucked to play out - and MoO2 did a pretty decent job in that area.



I'd prefer a simple system that works and has its moments than have a battle system that gets in the way and ruins the fun.

raw wrote:
Also, there are no tactical 4x games on the market. It's impossible to go "elsewhere".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_empires

God i love Space Empires 5



If i knew how to mod that game in a large scale way, it has to ground works to become the best 4X game ever!

At this time, I have not recomened this game to friends, and exactly like me, two of the friends I have shown this game were blown away "until" they saw the combat portion. And then I had to pick their jaws up off the ground. "That's it" one said, "After all that work and building and customizing and deatail in every other part of the game, and THAT'S what combat it?"



Sorry, I have to agree.



Everything in the game leads to and is builds up to combat. You spend so much time planning and customizing ships, only to see a quick "blurry" picture of how the battle played out, which leaves you scratching your head as to what happened and what, if any, all those past many hours of work and stratagizing had on the ourcome of your battle.



It's like dating the best looking cheerleader in your highschool for 4 years, and after the senior prom, when you in the back of your van, you notice she has an adams apple. . .

This isn't a combat simulator, its an empire builder.



The point isn't to build around the combat, the combat is to build around the empire building. Expand the combat, expand the empire and expand the game, but the games focus shouldn't focus on the war, that's monotonous.

Exactly. Besides, if there are so many non-combat victory types, why would you consider combat the most essential part of the game?

That there are other types of victory conditions than just combat/militaristic one is kind of a moot point; I've yet to play a game where I didn't have to do some battle, wether I wanted it or not. So many of the empires or at very least semi-focused on it aswell!



But about the actually combat system: I've mixed feelings about it. I like the fact that it feels new. I haven't seen this type of "card game system" in a big strategic/4X game before. And I do like it in multiplayer: it feels fast and streamlined (except that damn 5:th phase!), and I like the concept where you try to pick cards to play your own strengths vs. your opponents', and at the same time try to counter his card and not get countered. But it's also one of the main drawbacks in my opinion as well. It can feel like such a guessing/random coin toss some times. And not to mention how it feels like I get counter picked by the computer (even when I pick stuff that makes no sense for that typical battle!).



But yeah, I like the idea of this battle system, especially how it doesn't really impede on a multiplayer game, but it needs some work. *throwing out his suggestions)

- Maybe that you could have different focus during each phase? (Offensive, Defensive, Evasive, more?)

- Choose your weapons for each phase, as someone else suggested. Maybe choose what kind of defence you want to focus on as well? (increased efficiency or an all-or-nothing system is up for debate aswell)

- Maybe decide which ships/how many ships you'd like to send in each phase (you might need to send in a minimum amount worth of CP each phase, to counter not saving all your ship for the last one or w/e)

- More cards would be cool, but it wouldn't really solve any of the issues I think the system have.



There's my two dust for this discussion, but I think there are some bigger (balancing) issues with the game that are more important, and I hope the fix first.



PS. As for awesome 4X game that aren't turned base: Imperium Gallactica 2!

Mandroll wrote:




However now, after a little over 15 000 turns spread over a bunch of single player games, I just wish there could be a turn based combat.



All the things that could be added, modified, improved and changed.

I don't want to say I told you so but... I told you so.