Jethro wrote:
It is going to need a great programmer to pull it off - to be able to create lots of conditions that bug them, and then be able to address those in a more sophisticated manner than the mood swing or civ 5 approach, If I get another Civ 5 diplomacy system, I will cry. I want to be able to win by PEACEFUL and COLLECTIVE means if I feel like it. And if I change, and rip up treaties, then yeah, kill me and turn on me (balanced by the AI personaility somewhat). Also, I want steps IN BETWEEN peace and war. Recall Ambassadors (A -3 per turn to relations, with a x% chance of shaking some sense into them), the gradual ripping up of treaties, and things that will warn you well in advance that your relationship is souring.



** I want to be able to assign my best administrators to resolving the crisis, perhaps pulling them from normal duties for X turns, with a chance to really make the relationship go somewhere - or fail classically and have the relationship go south. With maybe a fantastic military general working better for some factions, and my civilian heroes working better with peaceful governments. **



Dev's please listen!



What do you guys think?

Oh yeeh...please please please. Never played a 4x with a really good and sophisticated diplomacy system, would be so happy if it happened here .

Id love to see a 4x game cross with Europa universals diplo system that would make a near perfect game IMO

Not sure I 100% agree. History is full of backstabbing allies.



Hitler was "best buds" with Stalin before Germany invaded the Soviet Union. Many European powers allied with the Ottomans (the Muslim infidel) during the Middle Ages in order to get one up against other European kings. Then would turn on the Ottomans, who were by no means afraid to play the game themselves.



What I would like to see is where an AI will ally with you as long as it is convenient but due to factors such as vastly differing moral systems or biology will attack. Perhaps he/she/it might try to vassalise you first or make horrible demands though...

I had an annoying diplomacy thing today. I was holding back Sophons using a choke point that was rather far (wormhole) from the core of my empire when a neutral team took a position right next to it. At first no problems but after a few turns his area of influence sprung up around it and extended over my choke point. This neutral AI wouldn't negotiate any kind of peace and had closed borders so I couldn't get to my own bloody system.... thus it fell when I couldn't properly reinforce it and I went under in a screaming pile of curses and rather rude words -.-



any thoughts?

Andrakys wrote:
I had an annoying diplomacy thing today. I was holding back Sophons using a choke point that was rather far (wormhole) from the core of my empire when a neutral team took a position right next to it. At first no problems but after a few turns his area of influence sprung up around it and extended over my choke point. This neutral AI wouldn't negotiate any kind of peace and had closed borders so I couldn't get to my own bloody system.... thus it fell when I couldn't properly reinforce it and I went under in a screaming pile of curses and rather rude words -.-



any thoughts?

If it was a neutral empire then i assume you was still in a state of "cold war"? if so then you could have fought over that system without declaring war. Any system that is still an outpost and not a colony (When a system becomes a colony the circle of influence/boarder becomes active) is fair game while in a state of "cold war". You can check how long until a system becomes a colony by clicking the system and checking the top left

waitingtoconnect wrote:
Not sure I 100% agree. History is full of backstabbing allies.



Hitler was "best buds" with Stalin before Germany invaded the Soviet Union. Many European powers allied with the Ottomans (the Muslim infidel) during the Middle Ages in order to get one up against other European kings. Then would turn on the Ottomans, who were by no means afraid to play the game themselves.



What I would like to see is where an AI will ally with you as long as it is convenient but due to factors such as vastly differing moral systems or biology will attack. Perhaps he/she/it might try to vassalise you first or make horrible demands though...

And history is also full of great compromisers and peaceful nations ?!!!!



The point is that in every 4x game ever made, the ai has been a backstabbing, aggressive ally, irregardless of race philosophy.



It would be nice to have a mixture. Yeh it would be nice to have AI ally with you but attack due to differences (which does happen in most 4x games), but it would also be nice to have peaceful races try their hardest to keep peace with you.

Andrakys wrote:
I had an annoying diplomacy thing today. I was holding back Sophons using a choke point that was rather far (wormhole) from the core of my empire when a neutral team took a position right next to it. At first no problems but after a few turns his area of influence sprung up around it and extended over my choke point. This neutral AI wouldn't negotiate any kind of peace and had closed borders so I couldn't get to my own bloody system.... thus it fell when I couldn't properly reinforce it and I went under in a screaming pile of curses and rather rude words -.-



any thoughts?

Sounds like an issue/bug to me . It's a bit confused atm - sometimes I'm allowed to move through cold war empire territory and sometime's I'm not. Which means my scout ships often get stuck all the way on the other side of the map.

We were at peace but it was -32 neutral peace... The whole situation was odd. I was positioned between three empires (Carvers up, the great blocker of defences right, Sophons down and empty space to the left) and I wanted to remain at peace because he was basically a meat shield against the Carvers that were chewing on the top of my empire forcing them to come at me through only 2 points instead of 4. The Sophons were attacking from below through one point (so I had 3 defensible points instead of 7 or 8) before this weird barricade thing happened. Just found it interesting being blocked from my own system :P!

Andrakys wrote:
We were at peace but it was -32 neutral peace... The whole situation was odd. I was positioned between three empires (Carvers up, the great blocker of defences right, Sophons down and empty space to the left) and I wanted to remain at peace because he was basically a meat shield against the Carvers that were chewing on the top of my empire forcing them to come at me through only 2 points instead of 4. The Sophons were attacking from below through one point (so I had 3 defensible points instead of 7 or 8) before this weird barricade thing happened. Just found it interesting being blocked from my own system :P!

Did you build the improvements to increase your boarder size around those chokepoints and the nearest planet to it creating this giant "bubble" that rival empire's territory would have to fight against? A better managed boarder can push against a weaker one.

MT4K wrote:
Did you build the improvements to increase your boarder size around those chokepoints and the nearest planet to it creating this giant "bubble" that rival empire's territory would have to fight against? A better managed boarder can push against a weaker one.

I mentioned earlier that this particular choke was through a very very long wormhole and thus wasn't near any other parts of my empire.. I would post a screenshot if I had one but basically it was a singular point between our two empires, unfortunately it was far closer to his and the population refused to work (2 laval planets (one with hostile animals) and an asteroid belt will make even the most reasonable people annoyed) so I couldn't try to build it up either. I got a tiny green smudge around it but it was still swallowed by his great red ring of death

aww sorry. sound slike just bad luck then or just bad timing that you couldn't grab a closer system before this happened.