The Horatio don't have to be racist/specist (however you spell it), they could more humanly sterilize the population, or possibly just have them as vassal states, second class citizens, but still alive people who make good cannon fodder.



Hell I would imagine the Horatio are more then content to have Auxiliaries of Hissho and Craver troops, being that they are some of the best in the galaxy!

Igncom1 wrote:
Dinosaurs aren't smart enough for that!

And yet they can develop coherent energy weapons.



Go figure. lol

Romeo wrote:
Jeez, off the top of my head:Slowhands posts, the Wiki, the in-game description of their race and their hero's description?



If they were dinosaurs, shouldn't they be absolutely horrified of asteroids?

The point being the game just started and there is maybe a page at best of lore, you can still change things.

KidKirbyUltra wrote:
The point being the game just started and there is maybe a page at best of lore, you can still change things.

Even if the game is just started, that no excuse to bugger up what lore you do have established. Especially when there's absolutely no need for it. If another alien race is needed, make another race. Don't try and rewrite what has already been made, that just cheapens it.



As for the page of lore, I would strongly recommend perusing the Wikia. There's quite a bit of lore on Sheredyn (Worth noting, given that they're a second-string race and haven't been the focus of any expansions). Also remember that their lore is tied in to the UE's.

Igncom1 wrote:
I see them more like sardaukar from dune.

Exactly what I thought, I'm fine with them being the way they are, as really just an off-shoot of the United Empire. I can see so much of Dune in this game, which is great, since that's one of the sci-fi settings that needs more good games.

Romeo wrote:
Even if the game is just started, that no excuse to bugger up what lore you do have established. Especially when there's absolutely no need for it. If another alien race is needed, make another race. Don't try and rewrite what has already been made, that just cheapens it.



As for the page of lore, I would strongly recommend perusing the Wikia. There's quite a bit of lore on Sheredyn (Worth noting, given that they're a second-string race and haven't been the focus of any expansions). Also remember that their lore is tied in to the UE's.

I looked there is even less than a page although it is a bit compared to a few factions. It's really your use of trampling that struck me as an exaggeration for a new game with a faction that has about 4 paragraphs of lore and unnecessarily defensive given the discussion was speculation on how to make them feel unique. I mean they are what they are, I just think lore wise there's too much focus on humanity without much of an excuse and art design wise it's limiting uniqueness slightly.



That being said overall everything is rather fresh as far as sci-fi goes.

Anelyn wrote:
I think they should devote more time and effort to each race before adding more.



We need a stronger identifier for each race, more animations in diplo screen, maybe add some short cinematics similar to opening sequences when you discover important techs - specific to your race etc.

I do agree with this though. I think having them flesh out the existing factions more would be nice before adding too many more. Nothing huge, just some more graphical stuff, maybe unique-looking building structures of certain types of buildings that show up on planets once you build the upgrades for them. I don't think it needs a TON of work, but some more detail in graphic design for the factions to make them distinctive aside from just their ships and the little holo-avatar for them in diplomacy.

My feelings on the races as they stand(stock races)-



UE- somewhat unique, but only because actually having to have a high tax rate makes things a little harder. I feel you can ignore their affinity and do ok with the standard mass expand strats and just relying on their other bonuses.



Sheredyn- totally disappointed that they were just an icon swap and some flavor text. I hope more is planned(at least some different traits...maybe more war mongering).



Sophons- The "tech" race. That said, i don' really feel that punished if i don't go all out tech. So their systems suck at natural defense? Good thing i'll have god fleets before anyone else. Really wish their out and out combat was more punished, and the move bonuses makes them crazy good at early expansion.



Hissho- The death before dishonor thing is awesome, and really helps bring more flavor to them. Their affinity and other bonuses do make them a war machine, and I feel they're one of the better races at encouraging you to play a certain way. Especially since space cadets is so harsh. You really need to keep invading to keep up tech wise.



Amoeba- here's a huge advantage and no downsides. Do what you like. I'd really like to see some form of negative on them or some reworking to make them more interesting. If they're supposed to be the "do anything" race, then I think they need a rework to be less crushing.



Cravers- Eternal war + affinity is pretty fun. Knowing there's a running clock on all your planets feeds a sense of urgency. I only wish the AI was better at blockading you in rather than trying to actively fight you. One of the most fun races, but this is in part because their affinity promotes the optimum gameplay type(mass expand). That said the flavor of invading an enemy area early, and then letting them have their planets back later because they're trash now, is really fun.



Horatio- Stellar guardians is probably one of the most powerful abilities vs the AI right now(i locked out 90% of the center of a huge spiral 8 with 3 systems. For about 100 turns). The cloning ability is....strong, but actually not that interesting. Like Amoeba they strike me as a "do all" race and are again really strong considering that. That said their tech layout at least encourages a hero focus.



Sowers- Seem reallly underpowered. Their affinity is neat, because theoretically you can ignore the left tree, but to expand you need the left tree anyways for happiness modifiers, they have the WORST negatives in the game by far(slow travel is just brutal at all points), and finally tolerant is just so underwhelming. It looks like they should be the games "tall" empire(can't move very fast, but can ignore the expansion tech tree) but tolerant kinda fails because the expansion techs are 1. super cheap and 2. usually gotten anyways since they're in the tree that gives better ships(always needed) and better movement(always needed, and ESPECIALLY for the sowers). Space cadets really seals their fate, because there's no easy way for them to keep up in tech other than to expand like mad, which they're so bad at. In short I feel like they have a very distinct style, which is good, but that style sucks, which is bad. Either reworking the tech tree or some other way to buff tolerant would help a lot.



Pilgrims- I flat out don't get them. Evacuate seems like there's some neat way to exploit it, but i've yet to figure one out(barring the obvious defensive uses). Other than that they have a random assortment of bonuses and benefits that mark them as a 3rd "do anything" race, but they're far weaker and less directed than the Amoeba or Horatio. I'd like to see their bonuses reworked to make them more focused, or maybe i just don't understand how much gameplay their affinity/tech adds.



Automatons- Pretty cool simply because their affinity changes quite a lot. That said, i've read that they're supposed to be a "tall" faction, and I just don't see it. There's really no reason not to just expand to your happiness limit, and use stacked production to bring multiple systems up to snuff. Another "do anything" faction to me, but the affinity at least makes them feel unique.



So then-

Very unique- Cravers, Hissho

Sorta unique- Sophons, Horatio, Sowers, Automatons

Not very unique- Pilgrims, Amoeba, UE, Sheredyn



I'd really like to see more/different negatives on certain races(sophons/Amoeba mainly) to make them feel different, and better changes in the tech tree(both overall and faction specific) could really help each race f different

Eji1700 wrote:
My feelings on the races as they stand(stock races)-



UE- somewhat unique, but only because actually having to have a high tax rate makes things a little harder. I feel you can ignore their affinity and do ok with the standard mass expand strats and just relying on their other bonuses.



Sheredyn- totally disappointed that they were just an icon swap and some flavor text. I hope more is planned(at least some different traits...maybe more war mongering).



Sophons- The "tech" race. That said, i don' really feel that punished if i don't go all out tech. So their systems suck at natural defense? Good thing i'll have god fleets before anyone else. Really wish their out and out combat was more punished, and the move bonuses makes them crazy good at early expansion.



Hissho- The death before dishonor thing is awesome, and really helps bring more flavor to them. Their affinity and other bonuses do make them a war machine, and I feel they're one of the better races at encouraging you to play a certain way. Especially since space cadets is so harsh. You really need to keep invading to keep up tech wise.



Amoeba- here's a huge advantage and no downsides. Do what you like. I'd really like to see some form of negative on them or some reworking to make them more interesting. If they're supposed to be the "do anything" race, then I think they need a rework to be less crushing.



Cravers- Eternal war + affinity is pretty fun. Knowing there's a running clock on all your planets feeds a sense of urgency. I only wish the AI was better at blockading you in rather than trying to actively fight you. One of the most fun races, but this is in part because their affinity promotes the optimum gameplay type(mass expand). That said the flavor of invading an enemy area early, and then letting them have their planets back later because they're trash now, is really fun.



Horatio- Stellar guardians is probably one of the most powerful abilities vs the AI right now(i locked out 90% of the center of a huge spiral 8 with 3 systems. For about 100 turns). The cloning ability is....strong, but actually not that interesting. Like Amoeba they strike me as a "do all" race and are again really strong considering that. That said their tech layout at least encourages a hero focus.



Sowers- Seem reallly underpowered. Their affinity is neat, because theoretically you can ignore the left tree, but to expand you need the left tree anyways for happiness modifiers, they have the WORST negatives in the game by far(slow travel is just brutal at all points), and finally tolerant is just so underwhelming. It looks like they should be the games "tall" empire(can't move very fast, but can ignore the expansion tech tree) but tolerant kinda fails because the expansion techs are 1. super cheap and 2. usually gotten anyways since they're in the tree that gives better ships(always needed) and better movement(always needed, and ESPECIALLY for the sowers). Space cadets really seals their fate, because there's no easy way for them to keep up in tech other than to expand like mad, which they're so bad at. In short I feel like they have a very distinct style, which is good, but that style sucks, which is bad. Either reworking the tech tree or some other way to buff tolerant would help a lot.



Pilgrims- I flat out don't get them. Evacuate seems like there's some neat way to exploit it, but i've yet to figure one out(barring the obvious defensive uses). Other than that they have a random assortment of bonuses and benefits that mark them as a 3rd "do anything" race, but they're far weaker and less directed than the Amoeba or Horatio. I'd like to see their bonuses reworked to make them more focused, or maybe i just don't understand how much gameplay their affinity/tech adds.



Automatons- Pretty cool simply because their affinity changes quite a lot. That said, i've read that they're supposed to be a "tall" faction, and I just don't see it. There's really no reason not to just expand to your happiness limit, and use stacked production to bring multiple systems up to snuff. Another "do anything" faction to me, but the affinity at least makes them feel unique.



So then-

Very unique- Cravers, Hissho

Sorta unique- Sophons, Horatio, Sowers, Automatons

Not very unique- Pilgrims, Amoeba, UE, Sheredyn



I'd really like to see more/different negatives on certain races(sophons/Amoeba mainly) to make them feel different, and better changes in the tech tree(both overall and faction specific) could really help each race f different

The Automatons are pretty great and I'm sad I forgot to mention them. I like a dipo plus a combat penalty for Sophons but I have no idea what negatives to add to the Ameoeba.

KidKirbyUltra wrote:
The Automatons are pretty great and I'm sad I forgot to mention them. I like a dipo plus a combat penalty for Sophons but I have no idea what negatives to add to the Ameoeba.

My first thought was add a negative trait that's like the opposite of naive(or whatever it is that gives them bonuses for being at peace). So not only will they lose those bonuses when a war pops up, but they'll actually incur additional penalties for being at war with another race, and these can stack as well. That way if everything is happy and peace loving they should do awesome, but just by getting everyone to hate them you can hurt their economy in some way. Even before firing a shot.

Igncom1 wrote:
Design wise?



Surly that depends if the game is multiplayer or not?

I suggest to enter additional abilities positive and negative for creation of characters.

Eji1700 wrote:
My first thought was add a negative trait that's like the opposite of naive(or whatever it is that gives them bonuses for being at peace). So not only will they lose those bonuses when a war pops up, but they'll actually incur additional penalties for being at war with another race, and these can stack as well. That way if everything is happy and peace loving they should do awesome, but just by getting everyone to hate them you can hurt their economy in some way. Even before firing a shot.

Would that be fair though? People can simply spring war on them then, and absolutely run them in to the ground.

Romeo wrote:
Would that be fair though? People can simply spring war on them then, and absolutely run them in to the ground.

Yeah there's some inherent issues, but the concept of them having some negative for being at war wouldn't be awful.

I think that each race could be made to feel different if heroes were flushed out more. At the beginning of the game, each faction could have a selection of three heroes which are of their race. It seems a bit off now that I can get a Sowers governor for my Pilgrim home system at the beginning of the game. If heroes had a few more options, and the heroes for each faction offered different variations, it could add something to the current faction affinities. Getting heroes from other factions might require technology and/or diplomatic developments. Perhaps heroes could also be captured or become available for hire galaxy wide after a faction is eliminated (like refugee survivors). Perhaps there could also be a different bonus based on whether they are home faction heroes, acquired peacefully/diplomatically, or captured.

Mesix wrote:
I think that each race could be made to feel different if heroes were flushed out more. At the beginning of the game, each faction could have a selection of three heroes which are of their race. It seems a bit off now that I can get a Sowers governor for my Pilgrim home system at the beginning of the game. If heroes had a few more options, and the heroes for each faction offered different variations, it could add something to the current faction affinities. Getting heroes from other factions might require technology and/or diplomatic developments. Perhaps heroes could also be captured or become available for hire galaxy wide after a faction is eliminated (like refugee survivors). Perhaps there could also be a different bonus based on whether they are home faction heroes, acquired peacefully/diplomatically, or captured.

Kind of screws with the lore of the heroes being wanderers for hire though.

KidKirbyUltra wrote:
Kind of screws with the lore of the heroes being wanderers for hire though.

Aye, in some cases. Though it would make sense for the OMNOMNOMing Cravers and the racist Horatio to need development (Tech) to hire non-Craver or non-Horatio heroes, for example. Wouldn't be hard to apply that to everyone.

Dinosaurs aren't smart enough for that!

Igncom1 wrote:
The Horatio don't have to be racist/specist (however you spell it), they could more humanly sterilize the population, or possibly just have them as vassal states, second class citizens, but still alive people who make good cannon fodder.



Hell I would imagine the Horatio are more then content to have Auxiliaries of Hissho and Craver troops, being that they are some of the best in the galaxy!

But they're ugly, and that is unacceptable. In all seriousness, their introduction says they want to make EVERYONE like Horatio, meaning the very concept of using something un-Horatio to do that wouldn't make sense. Unless they figured out through science that they will get rofl-stomped by Cravers or Hissho without outside help.

Well all Horatio is the end goal, but that doesn't mean they can't use the local resources to get there!

Faction bonuses seem a little disgruntled to me, the idea of mixing and matching traits to make a unique faction is great and all but it tends to suck away the originality of the main factions. All you get are these one-off affinities. For example, the Horatio should be masters of agricultural and medicinal cloning, so some kind of population/food bonuses AS WELL AS their current affinity for cloning heroes. Many games, for example the civ series, use these greater affinities for each faction to kind of balance everything out in a way that feels like each one is special. The fact that any two races could have those same base modifiers in different combinations kind of irks me.



I could go on about the other factions, but then you'd probably get bored. Needless to say each one could get their own specific feel, instead of that blasted Amoeba thing that takes the fun out of exploring :l even if I like their bonuses.



The only other thing I could say is that their seems to be enough faction pictures available here on the forum, why aren't those faction pictures in game? They could really help flesh out each faction.