As far as I'm aware, once you've mapped the galaxy you effectively maintain automatic overwatch of all the surveyed systems. No matter how far away a system is from your territory, if a faction loses it to another faction then this will show on the galaxy map in real-time, making further scouting missions unnecessary.



And here's the big problem: while a snapshot galaxy view which portrays a state of affairs as it was when you mapped it and not as it is now would be cool because it would make constant scout probing of the various factions' borders essential, it would also really really confuse people; imagine the galaxy view showing an empire's borders and in reality the empire has already been vanquished and you just can't see it because you haven't sent out any scouts to update your map... really messy.



All of this, mainly to avoid confusion, speaks for leaving it the way it is i.e. having changes on the galaxy map portrayed in real-time as they happen, despite the affected regions perhaps being really remote. That's why I initially thought that a kind of re-shrouding of areas on the galaxy might be cool in order to get people to send scouts out again, but that seems a bit difficult...



The sad thing about leaving everything the way it is, however, is that scouts are only required initially to ensure that you can see all the planets on the map. Afterwards the scouts are superfluous for the remainder of the game...

What I meant to say, is that unless if you're allied with most of the other players, you still need scouts to see how the other empire borders are moving and what empire is winning against which other. Don't you?

BlueTemplar wrote:
I don't understand what this whole thread is about - isn't that how this already actually works?

My suggested approach would be the following:



Step 1: read and absorb the content of post 1 to familiarise yourself with the purpose of this thread.



Step 2: read and absorb the content of the other posts to see what other people's take on the issue is.



Step 3: Realise (potentially) that, in fact, it's true that once the entire galaxy is mapped (a task completed rather quickly upon starting a fresh game) one no longer needs scouts, which is a great pity since scouting is quite important to strategy games (= argument this thread is making). Playing an actual game could be helpful in understanding the various arguments put forth here; that would also have rendered your post superfluous.



Step 4: continue the debate to see if / how something should / could be done. Alternatively, disagree with arguments put forth by thread creator because of X reasons (after all, you don't have to agree with me; and, alternatively, I'm happy to be persuaded by others that it's fine the way it is - it's that whole share / debate / learn thing )



Sorry if I'm sounding harsh, I'm not opposed to having people explain to me that my idea is flawed or not in their interest, but I believe asking others to at least read and think before they post is not asking too much is it? lol





@Woolfe: Indeed, you're right, I'd forgotten about the trade thing. Perhaps there could be a way that trade income etc is explained etc despite not revealing too much about the ownership of the various individual systems? I have to think about that one...



@Thoto79: Exactly, would be nice if there was a lasting purpose to scout ships and a lasting

need to scout and explore throughout the game (like refreshing intel!)

n18991c wrote:
Agreed, having mapped territory displayed at the latest most current state of play would make more sense than re-fogging it, since it would reflect the fact that the territory had, at one point, been reconnoitred

I don't understand what this whole thread is about - isn't that how this already actually works?

Nice idea! Sad to see the scout ships being worthless mid game, the exploring part of the game suffers cause of this.

IMHO they should be grayed out as soon as they aren't in sensor range anymore... but not reverted to unexplored, since the resources on the planets and planet sizes aren't going to change.

Nasarog wrote:
Good idea, let's add ground invasions too.

Please don't mix up threads and thread content. There's a separate thread for ground combat here.

Good idea, let's add ground invasions too.

n18991c wrote:
At the moment, I only send a few scouts out at the beginning of a game to reconnoiter the galaxy, but once that's done I never use them again, which is rather sad. One could do so much more with them!

Exactly, and even for that early scouting, a fast ship with some additional defenses is more useful than a ship with an actual scouting module on it, due to ship vision/detection radius not actually mattering for "discovering" new systems, since they only show up when you actually visit them rather than when you see them. Currently the actual scout modules are basically pointless except perhaps midgame to post on your border picket ships to keep an eye on the other side of a wormhole, but even then system vision is usually sufficient for any areas that actually matter to keep an eye on in the midgame...

raccoon_tof wrote:
Agreed in theory, but I'd prefer to see it as a perpetual view as you last observed it - basically a permanent fog of war that still shows the most recent information you have, for anywhere that is outside your current combined "vision" of scouts and systems. Currently, I actually find scouts to be useless - in fact the first two changes I make at the start of every game is to ditch the basic colony ship design and make a new one on the corvette hull (same cost, 1 pt faster move) as well as to redesign the scout ship to strip off the scout module and add additional weapons and armor instead. Unless you are in an active siege situation, ship vision radius is basically pointless (it won't reveal "new" systems in the radius until you actually visit them anyway) and even in an active siege you are better off with "picket" ships than "scout" ships. The only current advantage of scouts is faster movement speed, not the increased vision radius...

Agreed, having mapped territory displayed at the latest most current state of play would make more sense than re-fogging it, since it would reflect the fact that the territory had, at one point, been reconnoitred - although the appeal of re-fogging is that it would literally keep you in the dark and guessing and would avoid a player from wrongly assuming that the galaxy map is representing a current map... Hm, something to think about there.



In essence though it would be cool if a new and lasting purpose could be given to scout ships, with frequent map recces acquiring a new level of tactical and strategic significance and this forcing the player to keep his maps

up to date in order to avoid missing something of importance...



At the moment, I only send a few scouts out at the beginning of a game to reconnoiter the galaxy, but once that's done I never use them again, which is rather sad. One could

do so much more with them!

Agreed in theory, but I'd prefer to see it as a perpetual view as you last observed it - basically a permanent fog of war that still shows the most recent information you have, for anywhere that is outside your current combined "vision" of scouts and systems. Currently, I actually find scouts to be useless - in fact the first two changes I make at the start of every game is to ditch the basic colony ship design and make a new one on the corvette hull (same cost, 1 pt faster move) as well as to redesign the scout ship to strip off the scout module and add additional weapons and armor instead. Unless you are in an active siege situation, ship vision radius is basically pointless (it won't reveal "new" systems in the radius until you actually visit them anyway) and even in an active siege you are better off with "picket" ships than "scout" ships. The only current advantage of scouts is faster movement speed, not the increased vision radius...

I like the idea of a visited system becoming foggy over time, as intelligence becomes outdated so to speak, thus eventually concealing a system and requiring the player to launch a fresh exploratory effort using scout probes and other ships, effectively forced to launch them blind into an area.



Also, just think how exciting it could be to find scout probes continuously being destroyed upon entering a certain region of the galaxy and leaving you wondering as to the full extent of the other faction's empire and the size of its fleets...



You'd literally be sitting in front of your pc as if it's a war ops planning table and trying to decide whether or not to take on that other empire or not..! lol

i like this idea and have seen it done in other games. personally i would have a buildable improvement to conceal an area but rather would have an oversight timer and an improvement that "holds back" the fog of war.



eg you pass through an area and map it so that it is visible to you even after your ship is out of range. then after some predetermined amount of time a 'semi-fog' covers the newly explored area so you can still see the system name and routes but it is greyed out (you wouldnt be able to see fleets and the colour would stay that of the ownership at the time you explored it) if you then sent a ship through to that area the fog would once again be lifted and the ownership/fleets would be updated to current state.

This could be expanded such that the fog would occur even on allied systems unless the ally has built a system improvement to broadcast local SA data.



This would as you stated highten emphasis on scouting even in late game and would ensure that there are almost always part of the galaxy that are unknown to you.

How many times have we seen in sci-fi our heros arriving at a previously well known location that has befallen some terrible fate out of our sight.

Could be an random event, hm?



Good Idea!

Well, im not going to quote everything above, but i think the idea with the starting planets would be good - and yes,this might be against the original/current version - but maybe the Devs are willing to change! Just give it a try!

Steph'nie wrote:
What's the deal with polls? I have been seeing the "you should add a poll" sentence a lot lately and I really don't understand it. I mean, it's not like a suggestion is considered good because of its popularity. :/

Easy as that: Jetkar askes for a poll to make sure that enough people are interested in a certain topic. Only then he is willing to put the idea into his compiled-suggestions-thread which is apparently the best way to reach the devs.

A poll offers a fast view on how the majority thinks about the subject.

People can still post why they chose.



Its ofcourse true that a suggestion should not only be implemented based on its popularity,

but with a poll you can easily see if you audience likes the suggestion. (a suggestion that is disliked, should obviously not be implemented.)

Steph'nie wrote:
What's the deal with polls? I have been seeing the "you should add a poll" sentence a lot lately and I really don't understand it. I mean, it's not like a suggestion is considered good because of its popularity. :/

Damn straight!

Steph'nie wrote:
What's the deal with polls? I have been seeing the "you should add a poll" sentence a lot lately and I really don't understand it. I mean, it's not like a suggestion is considered good because of its popularity. :/

See that's what I thought as well. I initially decided against a poll because I wanted people to not just tick a box but instead say WHY they were for or against something... slightly confused now Help me Steph'nie

n18991c wrote:
Was asked by Jetkar to add a poll if I wanted it to be listed in his "Summary of suggestions so far" list... hereby done, please all vote

What's the deal with polls? I have been seeing the "you should add a poll" sentence a lot lately and I really don't understand it. I mean, it's not like a suggestion is considered good because of its popularity. :/