1.Ferengi Rules Of Acquisition:



Once you have their money ... never give it back.

My Quantum Torpedoes want my money back --_--

Dead Ferengi make no further profit.

Actually you can sell their vacuum-desiccated remains after death. That is if a Quantum Torpedo leaves any remains :/



Anyone back to topic?

Stealth_Hawk wrote:
Maybe... lol

nah, not yet



besides, I have a ferengi rule to add: Satisfaction is not guaranteed. Hence the no money back

Look I know I'm new here and I don't have a ton of "points" or what-have-you, but I do bring a few things to the table.



1) I've been a gamer my entire life. Yes, that's right I was literally born a gamer. You guys may doubt me, but trust me. I was.

2) I went to college for video-game development. Yes, I know a ton of people say this. But I went to DeVry under the "Computer Gaming Simulation and Software Development" career plan. Was a ton of fun.

3) I play literally EVERY kind of game there is. Life is too short to not think of it as a GIANT game.



That being said. Yes, I would like to *sign* the petition. I have played maybe 20 games as the Sowers and I usually quit before I get very far into the game. Around turn 50 or so. And these are the following reasons from most common to least common.



1) Terrible starting location/horrible planets.

2) Good start but I'm behind, most of the time starting to get trampled by Empire/Sheradyn or Cravers. Or both.

3) I always get the feeling that I would rather be playing as the Sophons.



Now to elaborate on these reasons.



1) You can't do much in this situation. When your starting system contains your Home Planet, an asteroid belt, and a gas giant. Terrible. I think they need a protocol that ensures ALL starting systems have two "decent planets" which are T2 or better. Just my opinion. The second part of this issue is compounded when the closest systems are three turns away and most of the other races have already colonized their second planet on turn 2/3 and you get your planet on turn 5/6.



2) I know why this happens. First and foremost, it's the Affinity issue. You just can't keep up even with a good start. Secondly, it's the fact that the Sowers are "Slow Movers" this + the Affinity really KILLS the faction.



3) The Sophons are like the polar opposite of the Sowers. They are "Fast Movers" and they aren't "Space Cadets". This means that everything that hurts the Sowers, isn't present with the Sophons.

VeteranSpace wrote:
Look I know I'm new here and I don't have a ton of "points" or what-have-you, but I do bring a few things to the table.

Hey, it's better than a discussion about Quantum Torpedoes and Ferengi lol (you landed right in the middle of some trekies)



Anyway, I like your Idea about the home system. I don't like the fact that some races start out with some really crappy ones, either.

The Petition got an update ; )

in an hard and annoying process of work

I identified the memebrs of our Group which were to shy or just were overseeing this thread.

So now all the G2G shouldt be fresh,complet and up to date.





@VeteranSpace And Welcome to the Forums btw ; )



This imo the best Community i ever joined and i think u will have much fun here.



In the Name of the Movement i have to thank you that your very first post,

is to support our cause ;D

Sovereign wrote:
The Petition got an update ; )

in an hard and annoying process of work

I identified the memebrs of our Group which were to shy or just were overseeing this thread.

So now all the G2G shouldt be fresh,complet and up to date.





@VeteranSpace And Welcome to the Forums btw ; )



This imo the best Community i ever joined and i think u will have much fun here.



In the Name of the Movement i have to thank you that your very first post,

is to support our cause ;D

Well to be fair, I usually play a game for at least a week and in the terms of a 4X strategy game I make sure I get more than a few games under my belt before I join a game forum. That way I am at least vaguely familiar with the game and I'm able to form an opinion based on knowledge. My "pet-peeve" is when people talk about something they don't understand or have real experience with.



Having said that, I was very surprised to find exactly what I wanted to discuss as soon as I got here. The complete weakness of the Sower faction compared to every other faction. And I like the Sowers, so them having the "short-stick" was very depressing.



I think my favorite faction is the Hissho though. I like playing aggressively and being rewarded for it.

Help me out with something here, guys. I can't see how the adaptive industrial systems improvement near the end of the east tech tree doesn't cause the game to blow up with the sowers. Say you have 100 food coming in, and 100 industry. Adaptive industrial systems takes 100% of the food surplus and converts it to industry, so that's 200 industry. The sowers affinity takes that 200 industry and adds 40% of it to food. 180 food. The beginning equation has changed with the increase of food, giving the sowers 280 industry, and then THAT requires the game to recompute the affinity and conversion, and you can see how this goes. So, my question is how does the game reconcile this without causing a massive crash?

Pondera wrote:
Help me out with something here, guys. I can't see how the adaptive industrial systems improvement near the end of the east tech tree doesn't cause the game to blow up with the sowers. Say you have 100 food coming in, and 100 industry. Adaptive industrial systems takes 100% of the food surplus and converts it to industry, so that's 200 industry. The sowers affinity takes that 200 industry and adds 40% of it to food. 180 food. The beginning equation has changed with the increase of food, giving the sowers 280 industry, and then THAT requires the game to recompute the affinity and conversion, and you can see how this goes. So, my question is how does the game reconcile this without causing a massive crash?

Cause the formula is just not working this way.

The multipliers doesn't apply in that order.





BTW@all:



We recently broke the 150 Voters mark with most of them supporting us ; )

and still more and more supporters are joining our Group.



The Movement still grows!

So.... how does Adaptive Industrial Systems work with the Sowers?

Pondera wrote:
So.... how does Adaptive Industrial Systems work with the Sowers?

1. Bonus from Adaptive Industrial Systems is the last added Multiplier so the affinity already has conversed 40% into Food

2. The Affinity formula is not applied more then once

oh, so AIS isn't added to the food tally? Only the industry up till that bonus is factored in....



God...DAMN this math makes my brain hurt! >_<

Pondera wrote:
oh, so AIS isn't added to the food tally? Only the industry up till that bonus is factored in....



God...DAMN this math makes my brain hurt! >_<

Sovereign is absolutely right, AIS effect has nothing to do with the affinity. Star system ABC: 100, 100 -> star system ABC with AIS: 0 , 200

VS - now you know why we are trying to save the Sowers. Welcome to the club.

AIS works like that for every one, why should the sowers be different?

hmm, that actually looks like a further weakpoint, as Sowers normally get less food.



100 + 100 => 90 +100 => 190



instead of 200



Plus sowers are likely to take a bit longer to get to both the Tech and surplus food :/

In my games, the Sowers tend to lose the most if they do not have an ideal start.

Save Em!