snikch wrote:
hi there



thanks to your link in my message,

I didn't saw this topic.



Well, I agree with the idea of the second card, for more strategy in battle.

I agree with having more different cards.



For making the cards, I though about an in-game creation system. We can build our own ships, so why not having adapted strategy to our ships ?

example... let's take an idea i read here. Put some ship in front of the ennemy, and so other in his back so they are protected.

the card will be something like



X% of damage taken on [transportclassship] are done to [cruiserclassship]

-N% domage done by [Transportship]

Description : The [transportclassship] take cover behind the [cruiserclassship].

letting him take the damage, but avoiding [transportclassship] to fire all it's weapons.

The card builder will simply let you choose who protect who, in this example.



and no. it's not useless. it add strategy. you can equip (in this exemple) the protective ship with only armor,

and have another class of ship, without armor, and only full of kinetic weapon.

so, you have to protect them until phase 3... (kinetic weapon are , normally, fully affectives at phase 3)



so, basically, you already have in your hand all the second cards. But, you can make them in the game only when you have researched the ship class.

This is the base idea, each strategic tactic can be traduced in this way.

another example is the idea of focusing a particular class ship. (so you can focus on the weak or one the one with all the guns)



X% of damage done on [allothersclassships] are done to [cruiserclassship]

Description : Weapons are focusing as much as possible on [Cruiserclassships]





I must admit I'm not fan of your idea of a 5th tech tree.

It makes sense, but I think it would slow down the game too much.

What is there to research in the 5th tree ? Cards ? you want to put there the fleet size inside ? ... and ?

that's not enough to make a full tech tree. furthermore, you can play battles in automatic. sincerelly, I don't do that much battles in manual.

Agree with this one! custom cards ftw!

very good idea. i didn't read the following debate but i would like to point to this other thread as they get together well :



/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13328-suggestion-formations-that-prioritize-targets

VitunSuoPaska wrote:
Agree with this one! custom cards ftw!

Custom cards would make countering difficult. It would also make techs less involved.

ArrowLance wrote:
Custom cards would make countering difficult. It would also make techs less involved.

I do not agree. the card it self does not matter for countering, it's the type of the card. actually, all your offense cards beat all the ... uuhhh engeenering cards if i remember corectly.

so, Custom cards or not, as long as their type is defined and the card creation is well made, countering will still be efficient (if their is countering in the formation cards. After all some cards can naturally oppose another. read my two example and imagine that each player use them. the cards are naturally opposed and cancelled. no need for counter in this case).



Thanks fixou for the link. I thought about posting there my idea too, but don't want to spam ^^

ArrowLance wrote:
To support this a 5th tech tree could be implemented that would be completely devoted to these cards. The command cap techs could be placed here as well. Perhaps instead of using research points to unlock these combat experience gained would be turned into points to unlock doctrines and military buildings could provide a point income (in this case command cap techs would have to remain accessible by RP).



I understand this is probably a pretty huge change to combat systems and it really is only an idea. But I would love to see some extra depth added to manual control in combat.

At this state, adding a 5th tech tree is unlikely to happen: we would have to change the entire research system.

lmaoboat wrote:
If they're going with this whole random card route, they might as well make it like a fullblown card game. Like instead of doing the rock-paper-scissors thing, you draw a certain amount of cards from a "deck" and have to decide the right one to use in a given situation.

We have been working improving that rock paper scissors thing, by allowing some "targeting system" that allows you to define in which order you are targeting the enemy's fleet; either offensively or defensively.

Steph'nie wrote:
At this state, adding a 5th tech tree is unlikely to happen: we would have to change the entire research system.



We have been working improving that rock paper scissors thing, by allowing some "targeting system" that allows you to define in which order you are targeting the enemy's fleet; either offensively or defensively.

My friend and I discussed it just yesterday that it would be pure-funk-love if there was something more in combat and I wondered if you maybe could answer what would be more likely if anything of these would happen:



I was going to ask for more in the tech tree or more branches, but as you pointed out this is a lot of work and balancing.



Formations, to be able to have beefy ships in front of the more fragile attack-type of ships or concaves and the such (I saw some discussion about something like this in a thread.)



More cards and more types of cards? (Yet again tech tree stuff, but maybe : ) ?)



Anything else that is more likely that I've completely missed?



Thank you.

good news for the tech tree

thanks for reading us !

Steph'nie wrote:
At this state, adding a 5th tech tree is unlikely to happen: we would have to change the entire research system.

I still feel the rest of my idea implemented without a separate tech tree could bring the extra depth a lot of us are looking for in the game.

I have to be honest I think both these thing need to be reworked. The tech tree needs to ATLEAST be reorganized. Also the rock - paper - scissors is a cliche', it would be a shame to have a great game in all other aspects, but to rely on a cliche' for your combat system.+

Steph'nie wrote:
At this state, adding a 5th tech tree is unlikely to happen: we would have to change the entire research system.



We have been working improving that rock paper scissors thing, by allowing some "targeting system" that allows you to define in which order you are targeting the enemy's fleet; either offensively or defensively.



We have been working improving that rock paper scissors thing, by allowing some "targeting system" that allows you to define in which order you are targeting the enemy's fleet; either offensively or defensively.

Slar wrote:
I have to be honest I think both these thing need to be reworked. The tech tree needs to ATLEAST be reorganized. Also the rock - paper - scissors is a cliche', it would be a shame to have a great game in all other aspects, but to rely on a cliche' for your combat system.+

I really do like the card system though. It is fast. As for the weapon/resist rps mechanic it makes fleets simple, which is in line with what the game tries to be I think, not too micro oriented.

I love the idea of formations (maybe preset in the fleet menu once they are unlocked via tech?) which give bonuses to the whole fleet as well as altering the visuals in the cinematic battle scenes.



I also really like the idea of gambits (which might be unlocked by heroes and/or tech?) which allow for a card based contest to give advantage (or disadvantage if the wrong one is chosen!) for the whole battle. I am thinking of things like Picard Maneuver or exiting stellar induction closer to planetary gravity wells and so. I think it might be wise (and thematic!) to only allow heroes to execute gambits though - to keep them a little "special".

I don't know about adding a 5th tech tree (seems much more unlikely the devs will implement your change if they have to do this), but I do LOVE the idea of your two cards per round system. Formation and attempted focus firing is a MUST for the combat system. I've already bought this game, but I would even go as far as to say I will persuade or dissuade my friends from getting this game depending on if these, or some kind of changes, are made to the combat system to make it deeper. Right now it really feels like having only one ship in your fleet (the ideal counter to what your opponent has) is the best choice... needless to say this makes the combat rather dry (okay, you probably want 1 of a second type of ship which has support modules to buff the rest of your ships... still not much better). With formations where you can protect certain ships it opens up all kinds of strategies where you can have certain ships meant to take damage (tank) and others which can have less defenses and focus more on weapons. This is but one of many example of things you could do to mix up the combat with the TO's ideas.



Ultimately, I don't know about you guys, but I think battles between fleets with 3 or 4 different types of ships on each side is vastly more interesting than a battle with one type of ship in each fleet =/

Igncom1 wrote:
I think if you had a battle options screen for about 1min (Or what ever people deside before the game) before your ships warp in, listing things like formations, objectives(what your ships will try to do) and the actual battle cards (Giving you more time) as well as a tick box for both players to be ready.



it would give the players the options they need as well as keeping the flow for MP games.

I think the way to keep the flow in multiplayer games is to simply cut out the cinematic by default but give 5 or so seconds between each phase.

I agree with this.

I like this idea allot it would definitely add tremendously to the game.

Combat is a little linear, and adding some more control to the experience would make it more engaging and entertaining.

That is the most eloquent way I've seen for the formation/targeting system to be implemented. Bravo sir!



You may continue to live your life Staple free.

Like that idea and agree with it!

We had discussed formations previously, but this is the best idea for implementation so far. Nice job!

Sounds pretty reasonable and would definitely help to make the combat better.