Igncom1 wrote:
Yes but with a difficulty above newbie (The only one without an AI bonus) your asking for it, this is ridiculous.

I honestly have no idea what that sentence is supposed to mean. Could you please rephrase it?



One thing to consider about a fleet limit though, is the effect it will have on the multiplayer game balance, since if the cap is too low it'll make the initial colony race even more important.

Ok...longer post here...if i will be a developer...



Top of everything, i will use a "Goverment Power" parameter. Let -5 to +5 scale. -5 mean anarchy, nobody trust empire, make rebellion etc. +5 mean opposition, my people agree with goverment decisions. Starting is zero, no bonus, no malus. This GP directly impact FIDS too, like +/-10% per level, mirroring well my empire "trust in goverment and future" feeling. Ok, how can we rise this GP? Some exact way. First, i can "buy" a new level, this is required minimum 90% happyness empire wide, without any system under 50%. Cost much of dust, depending, how much and powerful system have, and leveling up cost scaling up like a hell (level 5 buy 100% happyness everywhere, and a a very big money). Its mean, little empire have equal option as a large one, large dont have any advantage here. Second, diplomatic action. Mean, if i make alliance with empire trusted trade partner, +1 on GP. If i brake ceasefire, -1 etc etc etc. (its dont hang empire size, tech level bla bla bla...totaly fair for anyone) All above these, if our empire at war, this GP directly impact combat too, mean increase/decrease the ships resist/dmg. Even add much more resist against war weariness factor. I think, this new parameter get many new aspect in whole gameplay alone, motivate player to thinking and will be much careful.

System building: new parameter here, System Slot. Each system have exact number of slot, where player can build a special building. Actual system improvment stay like now, but just "technological improvments" not architecture. This slot is limited in number, mean player can specialize each system, or keep ordinary, as desire, but not alltogether. This special buildings not required tech level, at start of the game buildable. What type of building this? Like shipyard, example. Add system ability to build basic military hull. Capital shipyard need basic shipyard builded, and option to build capital size hull. And many many similar "buildchain" type thing for each category (research, economy, defence...). This will make system more specialized, more uniq, and add a game large scale empire level planning. This point, each faction have some specific building make more uniq each faction play.

Research: nothing wrong here, Just need some end level repeatable technology, with scaling up cost. Similar in Moo2, or Civ series...some ultra advanced tech with little bonus here and there ingame, and tons of gamepoint at the gameover screen. Some uniq faction tech maybe nice too, just for make more differential gameplay, more replay factor.

Warfare: i have some idea here...but little bit boring with type...later in another post.

Empire management: I agree with your point here, but what extent do we do this before it becomes, un-fun?



Exploring: Well planets already have a number of bonuses that help make them unique, by surprising instant bonuses what do you mean? Like more positive random events? and as for monsters and pirates, i kinda agree, the galaxy needs more life to to, but i never liked the idea of a guardian to a specific system, i never liked it in SOTS for slowing down the growth of my empire in the early game where already so much can go wrong, but mid-late game galactic menaces are really fun for fudging things up.



Diplomacy: I agree, i even feel like it should be possible to conduct options like inflating an opponents economy, or inciting rebellions giving the player an option on how to resolve such matters and such things. Making players give reasons for going to war and braking treaty's, as you said, would be better then a empire being all 'Lets conquer the galaxy!'.



Research: I am not entirely too sure about lots of unique research, being from the era of games where factions were devised by a single unit, but giving the tree more with would mean making it take longer to go to the top.



Combat: I agree with there being more choices, tactics and such, but more active depends on what type of person you are, as i can happily sit back and watch the action, but i do understand you wanting more control, but how much control is too much?

Right...its allways about WHOLE game, sometimes a better part offset weaker part.

So...for each part of the game:



Empire management (aka building): more specialized option. Mean faction specific thing, system specific thing etc etc...goal: more option for player to combine actual "resources" for a bigger one, give a player a real choices what his want. (Examp: shipyard, which required for capital ship build, expansive upkeep, but make actual system more uniq and important bla bla bla...)



Exploring: better "uniq" option for system (like endless gold mine +100 income/turn, healing water +10% growth rate empire wide), suprising instant bonuses, space monster, pirate bases....bla bla bla bla



Diplomacy: personality for faction, more choices, options. Diplomatic decision impact whole empire (ie: if i break alliance without any "respectable" reason, empire get malus)



Research: more uniq tech for each faction, make bigger differencies for each playstyle. (maybe endless research option for longer gameplay)



Combat: be activ, my choices get meaning, more variation in ship, fleet setup, faction special...more tactics and brain



More content pleeeeeeeasa

So what are you suggesting? we just abstract most of the game out because it isn't that fun for you?



Because i don't know about you, in a close battle i fund the combat quite thrilling, watching to see if my card will be effective or not, whether my overall strategy can compete with my enemy's, how i should be improving my empire in order to win.



Diplomacy is quite the 'gunboat diplomacy' for the moment, more development time is needed to create a political system that can change the face of the galaxy, we need more intrigue, more control and more options, trading treaty's and resources is kinda poor, so i do agree with you.



Yeah research is kinda planed, people have suggested technology that has a randomized chance of you getting it, but this creates imbalance. I feel like we shouldn't be able to see beyond what we can research at the time to prevent people from planning their entire game, and more thickening of the tree would also be cool.



For exploring, well it depends how you define it, only the amoeba don't really have to, but they must for trade. People have suggested disconnected clusters for colonization once warp technology is unlocked, and i like that idea.





But who ever said the developer wont change it, they just need clear and concise information on the problem in order to make a educated decision.

Igncom1 wrote:
So you would have up cut out the eXterminate out of the game?

If developer dont wanna change basicly these "flood of ship" type combat. Yes. Reason is simple, i dont wanna spend my funtime wasting for something, that is fully passive, slow, boring, repetative and not fun. And result is predetermined...why i wanna know about anything else, then result?



Look...empire management is simple and easy, mostly is good UI and structured mechanic design. Not so much big fun, bc dont exist any alternative way there. But fair, for economic backround.

This "economic backround" must be there for SOMETHING. Something, which will be most interactive, interesting etc etc etc. But this "something" actually is a floodship war, non exist diplomacy, boring research, and exploring without any suprise. What is the "reason" to playing?

Miskin wrote:
Actualy, 50 junk fleet have benefit. Say, playerA use 50 junkfleet for defend a system. PlayerB have 5 well armed fleet for invading. PlayerB need 10 turn to begin invasion. But under 10 turn, playerA easly renew 50 junkfleet. Mean, system is "invulnerable" a normal human scale attack. Force playerB to playing with same style. Building 50 another junkfleet to break blockade. Worser, if playerB want to leave system, 50 junkflelet can blockade that system 10 turn too. Insane. I think, this is not a fun, and not so best way for competition, not represent anything, even strategic skill and empire power.



Yes, multiple attack/turn is solve this problem, but how cost? 50 idiotic autocalc battle...waste of time. I think is better to simple REMOVE this style of gameplay from the game. Making some new rule, limits or something to prevent this insanity.



Another way, if this system is "fine" for developer, please remove completly a direct combat from the game. This type of warfare not fun, and anyone will played autocalc. So why is there then? Simplify whole warfare a simple "warfere job" for system. Player can build "warfare" in systems, and like influnece actualy, engine will calculate where is a real border of an empire. No need boring and timewasting clickfest and progressbar watching. Simple and elegant. No need shipdesign, military tech directly impact this "warfare" rate.

So you would have up cut out the eXterminate out of the game?

Actualy, 50 junk fleet have benefit. Say, playerA use 50 junkfleet for defend a system. PlayerB have 5 well armed fleet for invading. PlayerB need 10 turn to begin invasion. But under 10 turn, playerA easly renew 50 junkfleet. Mean, system is "invulnerable" a normal human scale attack. Force playerB to playing with same style. Building 50 another junkfleet to break blockade. Worser, if playerB want to leave system, 50 junkflelet can blockade that system 10 turn too. Insane. I think, this is not a fun, and not so best way for competition, not represent anything, even strategic skill and empire power.



Yes, multiple attack/turn is solve this problem, but how cost? 50 idiotic autocalc battle...waste of time. I think is better to simple REMOVE this style of gameplay from the game. Making some new rule, limits or something to prevent this insanity.



Another way, if this system is "fine" for developer, please remove completly a direct combat from the game. This type of warfare not fun, and anyone will played autocalc. So why is there then? Simplify whole warfare a simple "warfere job" for system. Player can build "warfare" in systems, and like influnece actualy, engine will calculate where is a real border of an empire. No need boring and timewasting clickfest and progressbar watching. Simple and elegant. No need shipdesign, military tech directly impact this "warfare" rate.

So change the AI and not the game.

Igncom1 wrote:
All of the AI players set on a difficulty setting above the 'newbie' setting gain a FIDS bonus, the Endless difficulty AI gaining a 200% bonus as well as a possible approval bonus, making them overpowered.



But as people complain as to how the AI is spamming ships, i feel like they are not considering that the AI gets this bonus and thus is building more.



The idea of a larger upkeep cost to ships is also turned away do to the large amount of FIDS the AI gets, so i feel like it may be more appropriate to level up the upkeep for the AI's ships as well, keeping their fleets in check along with their bonus.



200% bonus to dust? 200% bonus to upkeep.

I'm not sure you get the point of this, then. The point isn't to restrict the AI from building useful ships, the point is to restrict it from building 350+ ships that are essentially worthless, their only "contribution" to the game being forcing you to auto through 50 fleet battles you CAN'T lose anyway.

Having loads of useless ships isn't a benefit for the AI, it's just a detriment for the players game experience.

All of the AI players set on a difficulty setting above the 'newbie' setting gain a FIDS bonus, the Endless difficulty AI gaining a 200% bonus as well as a possible approval bonus, making them overpowered.



But as people complain as to how the AI is spamming ships, i feel like they are not considering that the AI gets this bonus and thus is building more.





The idea of a larger upkeep cost to ships is also turned away do to the large amount of FIDS the AI gets, so i feel like it may be more appropriate to level up the upkeep for the AI's ships as well, keeping their fleets in check along with their bonus.



200% bonus to dust? 200% bonus to upkeep.

I think we've all experienced the AI building literally dozens of crappy fleets during a game, making it so that we easily have to auto through 10+ battles. One of my friends reports having had to auto through around 50(!!!) AI fleets in one system during an endgame war. What a drag!

I suggest adding a Fleet Limit to the game, to get rid of this insanity: Maybe start off with a max of 5 (or whatever seems balanced) "Fleet Limit" and certain techs increases that limit, like with fleet size. Admirals could get a skill that excluded their fleet from the limit, or adding "Fleet Limit".



Concerning fleet size, the size of fleets during mid/endgame seems a bit low. Maybe a couple of tweakings to allow for large fleets would be in order, especially if combined with a fleet limit.

Yes but with a difficulty above newbie (The only one without an AI bonus) your asking for it, this is ridiculous.

Hmm...taking over enemy capital system add a bonus fleet in number. I like it!

The only solution to AI ship spam is a hard limit, or reprogramming the AI to actually be able to utilise effective builds rather than just spam shitty ships.

The problem with AI fleet spam is the fact that it sucks balls to have to auto through 5, 10, 20 or even 50 battles against ships that can't even dent you.



The best specifics on HOW to balance a fleet limit are up for debate. Personally I think a system that uses some or all of these mechanics might work:



Home system: +3 Fleet Limit (This also means any enemy home systems you've conquered. Might want to implement some form of Relocate Capital feature for factions who lose their capital then)

Regular system: +1 Fleet Limit

System Improvement: Build for +1 Fleet Limit on System

Admiral Trait: Tiered skill, +1, +2, +4 additional Fleet Limit

Tech: Specific techs could give a Fleet Limit increase



Edit: The numbers are of course just placeholders, the development team will probably have a better idea of what numbers would be best for balance.

My mind, best for the game, if developing a hard limit fleet in number. Its solve handle problem for human, and for game help to keep good performance even in low end PC configuration. If well designed, allow better "strategic thinking" performance for players.

If limit in fleet number there, must to make another "way", to scale miltary power with empire power. Easy solution is a "limitless" ship wepon/defense/armor advance. In another forum, im talking about some "end military tech", which is repeatable researched, for harder and harder cost, and add bonus for ships in dmg/resist/hp/movement and penalty ship building cost.

I think, this will be the best. Mean real representation "empire power" continually, with relative low number of game objekts, even in very very long game.

Problem in theory is this:

Empire vs empire war, game must be represents each of empires real power in combat system, in "easy to use, fun and controllable" form.

Actualy in game have many limitation and reachable limit. Hero, fleetsize is a hard limit there. Fleet/ship MP, FIDS, technology etc...is a soft limit. Some of these is hard to reach, others is easy. Number of fleet is limitless, bc fleet upkeep is virtualy no exist, and palyer can make tons of new ship even under one turn (AI much more...dunno why). This reason will lead to endless fleets problem, bc this is the only way to win over another empire, if game reach other limits. This in theory is not a "problem" and mean solution for measuring empire power, AI can handle well, game engine can handle too, but human cannot, turning a gameplay not much fun.

you still not get the problem... the problem is that the ai spams tons of fleets with no attack or with just 1 ship and sends them to a planet do defend it a player can do it easily too but it´s senseless

Exactly, with the AI getting a bonus to FIDS you cant really balance the game around it.

Normal or serious. My friend was playing a game on normal when he encountered the 50-fleet stack. I'm not sure how it relates though, I was under the impression that the AI had a tendency to spam fleets on all difficulties above Newbie, since it gets FIDS bonuses.