Ther0 wrote:
Well, you could move the "veteran" ships in the hangar, than next to create \ scrap you will have "level up" (or something like that).

You didn't, actually, answer both the questions I posed.



How would you propose that this functions with the "only ten designs" rule currently imposed by the game?

Thinking about this more, I agree that tonnage is not the way to go with the upgrades, there are too many oddities. But there are plenty of other benefits that leveling can give.

Ther0 wrote:
to get your destroyer to some badass 2cp ship.

How does that even work, lore-wise?



A destroyer doesn't suddenly, magically, "gain" 50 tons of material structure.



Also, what would happen if you had a fleet of 5 destroyers (5 CP cap) and they all "upgraded" to 2cp ships? How would the game handle the splitting of the fleet?

That's only works for enhaching modules on existing ship (wici it's usefull but i guess it could be better).



it doesn't improve "the whole ship" wich, in my opinion it would be really really cool. to get your destroyer to some badass 2cp ship.

Ther0 wrote:


The problem is that those improvement doesn't really compete with a brand new ship with improved tonnage, defense and weapons through modules\research. So a perfectly working veteran ship it becomes useless in... 15 rounds at most ?

This is what retrofitting is for. In one turn, you can give your veteran ships your most powerful new weapons.

Yeah, but maybe with a bit more flavor and diversity.

Igncom1 wrote:
I suppose the Upgrades for the ship could be dependent on the players researched weapons and technology. (Giving you the choice to upgrade over a few turns for the newest guns, or leave it for a while so you can keep it on the front line).



Could the leveling up be done like the heroes?

You mean like :



your ship level and earn a "veterancy point" that can be spent in module upgrades or just like "offense" it gains +x% on weapon damage or "structural integrity" that will gives the ship more hp ?

I suppose the Upgrades for the ship could be dependent on the players researched weapons and technology. (Giving you the choice to upgrade over a few turns for the newest guns, or leave it for a while so you can keep it on the front line).



Could the leveling up be done like the heroes?

Igncom1 wrote:
Have you ever built a custom civ with level 3 in tonnage improvement? I have herd roomers of player with 1000 tonnage.



I have never been a fan of a 'death star' but any SIFI show with a massive fleet spewing/asteroid sized mega ship is good by my books.

The core idea is to emphasize the ship level and let the player upgrade current built ships into something more "late game effective". Btw the best i got with cravers was around 800 point, with upgrades. That's why i talk about "base tonnage".

Nosferatiel wrote:
Good point. Just something I'd like to raise that is close to this question: Why do you want to increase tonnage if you could instead convert levelups to modifiers on weapon dmg and defense effectivity or HP (as it is now) without changing the base schematics of the ships, each time?

Is there any basic difference I overlook, like e.g. the desire to start with laser based ships, have veteran laser/kinetic ships and elite omniships?

First of all sorry for the wrong section.



Why do you want to increase tonnage if you could instead convert levelups to modifiers on weapon dmg and defense effectivity or HP (as it is now) without changing the base schematics of the ships, each time?

That's already a nice thing BUT right now a "veteran destroyer" (i don't know if there are more than 6 level of veterancy because sooner or later my veteran ships gets too weak even with the veterancy and than they get destroyed) can't be even remotly compared to a destroyer with improved ship tonnage (with research and module) plus improved weapons\defenses. From that "unbalanced" (or to better say, "not really rewarding veterancy system) comes my idea of better ships with better tonnage and the possibility to get that ship upgraded with latest technology. (only 2 times per ship, as soon as they get the "next rank" of veterancy) Beside that i think it's more "nice" (maybe not the perfect adjective) to "link" the veterancy of the crew to a ship improvement.



Btw I thought 2 improvement because in my head sounds too cool to have a "destroyer v2" and than a whole new bigger and better ship, but it could be just the possibilities to advance to a a "Destroyer v2" at the last crew level OR (since i do actually understand the Draco18s point) you could just give the possibility (only to veteran ships!) to : a) go to the hangar and add more modules as soon as you research them or b) go to the hangar and improve the ship to an existing ship design.



Is there any basic difference I overlook, like e.g. the desire to start with laser based ships, have veteran laser/kinetic ships and elite omniships?



The idea, as i said, is to evalutate the Veterancy compared to a simple "new ship design". So you take the better crew (with all the difference that already gives.) and you give to them a better ship. First just an "improved version" (the veteran) of their current ship, if they manage to survives many many battles and they become elité.. well, then they earned the "right" to go in a bigger ship class.



Just like in the star trek universe you start at the command of a smaller ship and you can manage to command a Defiant Class ship as soon as you reach the rank of captain or better.



By the way, i'm here just to give MY idea on how i would like to see a veterancy improvement linked to the ship.

Draco18s wrote:
You didn't, actually, answer both the questions I posed.



How would you propose that this functions with the "only ten designs" rule currently imposed by the game?

To avoid that it could just "become" a Battleship. Or just the possibility to change the equipment on board.



Than, sorry for didn't answer your previous questions directly, i will do it now :



How do you propose modifying that ship's modules to use the extra space?



You could change or add more weapons\defenses\support module (just like when you build a new ship in the fleet management page). But if you are asking on HOW exactly would be the game code to do that, i have to apologize but i'm just a game enthusiast who love the game, i can't really tell how to "script" this kind of things.



How would you propose that this functions with the "only ten designs" rule currently imposed by the game?

Well more designs could be added (i guess?).. i mean they designed the game i imagine that they left over some margin of improvement on several game variables. Or as i answered before in this post, the veteran ship it could be simple get the chance to be "refitted" with newer modules, than the elite 1CP ship can become a 2CP Battleship or Cruiser but they need to mantain the crew veterancy upgrades. So you will have from the beginning a better ship compared to a brand new battleship with the same modules

Stalker0 wrote:
I would recommend the idea with a simplification using the current game system.



We can simply ask that the level do more.



For example, right now the levels provide a bonus to HP, and some bonus to weapons/defenses at the highest levels (which I have never gotten to myself).



Leveled ships could simply gain bonuses in other places....+X% to tonnage, +Y% to speed, etc.



If you want to get fancy, different ship classes could get different benefits. Destroyers gain speed bonuses, dreadnoughts tonnage, etc.

This is actually a great suggestion.



But as it is right now, a veteran ship it already have more HP, weapon damage and damage absorption compared to a copy of that ship with no veterancy. The problem is that those improvement doesn't really compete with a brand new ship with improved tonnage, defense and weapons through modules\research. So a perfectly working veteran ship it becomes useless in... 15 rounds at most ? That's sad.





P.S.

sorry for the walltext but i wanted to answer all the questions at once.

I would recommend the idea with a simplification using the current game system.



We can simply ask that the level do more.



For example, right now the levels provide a bonus to HP, and some bonus to weapons/defenses at the highest levels (which I have never gotten to myself).



Leveled ships could simply gain bonuses in other places....+X% to tonnage, +Y% to speed, etc.



If you want to get fancy, different ship classes could get different benefits. Destroyers gain speed bonuses, dreadnoughts tonnage, etc.

Draco18s wrote:
How would you propose that this functions with the "only ten designs" rule currently imposed by the game?

Good point. Just something I'd like to raise that is close to this question: Why do you want to increase tonnage if you could instead convert levelups to modifiers on weapon dmg and defense effectivity or HP (as it is now) without changing the base schematics of the ships, each time?

Is there any basic difference I overlook, like e.g. the desire to start with laser based ships, have veteran laser/kinetic ships and elite omniships?

BEFORE YOU VOTE I SUGGEST TO READ SOME REPLIES TO THIS THREAD, SEVERAL NEW IDEAS HAVE BEEN WRITTEN.



I love this game, i think it's well structured (even if i have to agree with the combat critic of the kotaku review) but one major lack of this game is that 1 ship can't "evolve" or "refit".



I shall explain more.



Fore instance we have the Destroyer Class (Sower affinity if i'm not wrong, btw the 1 cp ship researchable from thundra colonization research), why can't i improve that class to something more efficient when it reach some lever.



For instance at level 1 to 3 is a destroyer. At lever 4 you can "refit" (my guess is +50% cargo space and a bigger design) that ship while the ship itself it gained a better power output, a better defense, etc. Maybe it could have just 3 level. The base (destroyer 100 base tonnage) a medium level (a destroyer+ = bigger and with more cargo space as i said before i.e 150 base tonnage but still cost 1CP) and a "final level" wich is a ship wich is "slighty better than a base battleship" (so it will keeps the -20% on weapon modules but it will have a 2CP cost and a base tonnage of 225\250). Of course it will cost dust to improve it and you have to do it in a system with the extra resources aviable and it will cost some industry point for the refit.





Same thing for other ship classes, maybe the dreadnaught will become a mighty 600 base tonnage ship (plus racial bonuses of course, so cravers will become extremly dangerous !!) that cost 6 CP.



So, what do you think ? is it even possible ? is a good idea or just a delusion of myself ?



Cheers.

Moved to the right section. Please post suggestions only in the proposals section.

Renamed the title.

Ther0 wrote:


The Dreadnaught to follow the good suggestion of of Igncom1 will become one hell of a flagship with 600 or even 800 base tonnage (it could be limited to ONLY 1 flagship per fleet, for obvious reason) and a cost of 6 to 8 CP.

Have you ever built a custom civ with level 3 in tonnage improvement? I have herd roomers of player with 1000 tonnage.

It will become a mobile fortress wich it can just be a mobile "repair bay" (with proper modules, of course) or a siege ship or whatever you like.



Of course the bigger the ship, the more experience you need to become "veteran" (it will need a rebalance, now it's "too easy"), the more dust, ind and special resources you will need to improve that ship.



And i'm talking of 12000 ind point to "evolve" the Dreadnaught into its final level, maybe the acces to ALL the resources (adamantian, antimatter, quadrinix, etc) and a huge cost in population (i'm thinking of 5 to 10 population because, of course, it will be basically a "Death Star")





The Idea, in the end, is to let the people to have even more personalization in the ship since like it is right now you can't modify the core module of a ship by editing it piece to piece, so you will be able, at least to give it 2 refit (i don't know you, but it's kinda sad to see some level 6 destroyer become useless and going to the scrapyard..) to let "that heroic crew" to prove it's valor once again !



p.s.

apologize for any english grammatical mistake.

I have never been a fan of a 'death star' but any SIFI show with a massive fleet spewing/asteroid sized mega ship is good by my books.

Ther0 wrote:
Well, yes and no, even with research upgrades final tier weapons and defense coste 20 each. It doesn't really leave too much room for a "badass ship that use the 20% discount".

That's the whole point. It is intended for destroyers to go heavy on the weapons and light on defense.

gameshoes wrote:
I don't think the Destroyer should get any bigger than it already is. The weight reduction on weapon modules is huge on it.

Well, yes and no, even with research upgrades final tier weapons and defense coste 20 each. It doesn't really leave too much room for a "badass ship that use the 20% discount".

Igncom1 wrote:
Well the crew get's better by learning the ship as they use it, most ships destroyed in endless seem to go up in a ball of fire (Possibly from the reactor) and so most if not all of the crew usually die.



Although ships constructed in systems with military improvements that improve how they actually build ships indicate that the ships do actually get better.



People love their custom Flagships, going from a specialized dreadnaughts into century's old, mother ships or floating fortresses would give people the ability to change how they want the ships to assist the fleet or work itself. Modular like the ISS.

I like this thought!

Draco18s wrote:
My reaction: "what."



First off, lets say that a destroyer gets more space as it levels up.

How do you propose modifying that ship's modules to use the extra space? How would you propose that this functions with the "only ten designs" rule currently imposed by the game?

Well, you could move the "veteran" ships in the hangar, than next to create \ scrap you will have "level up" (or something like that). When you click level up you can "evolve" (by paing dust and ind, so if you don't have much ind probably you will need to wait few turns for the transformation.. let's say in the first phases of the game) the ship from Destroyer to Destroyer v2 (for instance). When you do that you can modify the modules on the ship, so you can add more equips or just better equips.



Of course the "refit" is limited to only 2 levels of veterancy. (to a maximum of 10 level you will get the upgrades at level 3 and 7 + 3 veteran in the last ship)



So you can't just go whenever you want to the hangar and change the weapons, it must be a "reward" for high survival ships only.



So, you have the lvl 1 destroyer, at lvl 3 it can become "Destroyer v2" (if you manage to save the ship and reach the hangar !) and at level 7 you will be able to upgrade that ship to the Marauder Class ship. A badass ship wich is similar to the battleship (but with different bonus, since here you have 20% on weapons and there on defense) wich it is (as i said) a bit better of a standard Battleship (i'm talking about tonnage). Of course the battleship will have its own 2 upgrades wich will let that ship to become (in the end) a 4 CP ship with 450\500 of base tonnage and the -20% on defense.



The Dreadnaught to follow the good suggestion of of Igncom1 will become one hell of a flagship with 600 or even 800 base tonnage (it could be limited to ONLY 1 flagship per fleet, for obvious reason) and a cost of 6 to 8 CP.



It will become a mobile fortress wich it can just be a mobile "repair bay" (with proper modules, of course) or a siege ship or whatever you like.



Of course the bigger the ship, the more experience you need to become "veteran" (it will need a rebalance, now it's "too easy"), the more dust, ind and special resources you will need to improve that ship.



And i'm talking of 12000 ind point to "evolve" the Dreadnaught into its final level, maybe the acces to ALL the resources (adamantian, antimatter, quadrinix, etc) and a huge cost in population (i'm thinking of 5 to 10 population because, of course, it will be basically a "Death Star")





The Idea, in the end, is to let the people to have even more personalization in the ship since like it is right now you can't modify the core module of a ship by editing it piece to piece, so you will be able, at least to give it 2 refit (i don't know you, but it's kinda sad to see some level 6 destroyer become useless and going to the scrapyard..) to let "that heroic crew" to prove it's valor once again !



p.s.

apologize for any english grammatical mistake.

My reaction: "what."



First off, lets say that a destroyer gets more space as it levels up.

How do you propose modifying that ship's modules to use the extra space? How would you propose that this functions with the "only ten designs" rule currently imposed by the game?

Well the crew get's better by learning the ship as they use it, most ships destroyed in endless seem to go up in a ball of fire (Possibly from the reactor) and so most if not all of the crew usually die.



Although ships constructed in systems with military improvements that improve how they actually build ships indicate that the ships do actually get better.





People love their custom Flagships, going from a specialized dreadnaughts into century's old, mother ships or floating fortresses would give people the ability to change how they want the ships to assist the fleet or work itself. Modular like the ISS.

I don't think the Destroyer should get any bigger than it already is. The weight reduction on weapon modules is huge on it.

Well, it could be limited to the Dreadnaught but i kinda thought at it to an "evolution" of the veterancy already in game.

At least it would be great to save the veterancy BUT fit the ship with more powerfull equip (of course you will need to be in the hanger etc.. but why not)



Since it's not the "armor" that it becomes better from fight to fight but the crew, you simply give to the crew "a better ship" (Like in Star Trek Crew from the destroyed Enterprise D moved to the Enterprise E)



or as you say you can improve only the Flagship, wich it would make even more sense.