Tech tree randomized design

Stargem

Newcomer

22 900g2g pts

12 years ago

May 6, 2012, 5:06:18 PM

I guess we could separate technology into two camps: "Basic" and "Advanced", where Basic technology is guaranteed to all players and races, while Advanced technology is based on luck, with probability dependent on racial picks, events, and dice rolls. It is important for players to be able to create their races with specific technological capacities in mind. As a player, it really rubs me the wrong way when I can't influence the availability of tech-tree items, so that is why I want racial picks that assist with that.

Clasbyte

Newcomer

Clasbyte

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 6, 2012, 7:46:30 AM

SotS and SotS2 tech trees have been the worst i ever had the unpleasure to use.

If i had to name a tree model as the best it would be the star ruler system.

DuddBudda

Newcomer

DuddBudda

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 6, 2012, 5:03:52 AM

the work is set out to expose the essence, essentials or identity of a subject through eliminating all non-essential forms, features or concepts

it took me a while to accept it too, but Endless Space is not about ten thousand tricksy obscurifying variables

Stargem

Newcomer

Stargem

Newcomer

22 900g2g pts

12 years ago

May 12, 2012, 3:40:08 PM

If an randomized technology tree is implemented, I hope that racial customization can grant players more control over it, and for there to be pre-game setup to allow for full trees. I like the idea of an randomized tree, but SOTS didn't give much control, beyond picking one of the stock races.

mcleffler

Old Symphony

mcleffler

Old Symphony

14 300g2g pts

12 years ago

Jan 9, 2013, 9:17:38 AM

Now this is a really good idea you have there. Having the option to choose how much (if any) randomness you want to the tech tree.

It would en able everyone to get what they want out of the game, some like more civ-esque predefined tech paths while some likes the uncertainty of random.

^those two are most likely copies of somebody elses text.

naren_93

Newcomer

naren_93

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 12, 2012, 8:19:53 AM

I don't really like the idea of a random tech tree, some like randomness, in my opinion the game has enough randomness already ( planets, heros etc ) a unique tech tree for each faction on the other hand, is something I would really like to see.

Harel55

Newcomer

Harel55

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 12, 2012, 8:13:38 AM

Randomized tech connections does sound like a good idea, but there are some techs that should always be kept together, so the randomization should allow for large "modules" of technologies.

angelofshadows

Symphony

angelofshadows

Symphony

17 100g2g pts

12 years ago

Jun 9, 2012, 7:53:21 PM

It took me a while to read through all these ideas and I have managed to put an idea of my own together.

How about this: two sets of options when creating a game-

the first set will allow whether or not the tech tree would be under "fog of war" or not.

the second would determine how randomized (if at all) the tech tree was created. for example:

option 1: vanilla tech tree

option 2: only core techs are untouched

option 3: all techs randomized

To me this seems the best way to accommodate all player types

MODNosferatiel

Informer

"God's in his heaven, all's right with the world." Nerv Motto, Neon Genesis Evangelion

MODNosferatiel

Informer

47 300g2g pts

12 years ago

Jun 9, 2012, 5:07:54 PM

This thread is the origin of all randomized and overhauled tech tree discussions.

Other threads about this have been archived:

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13284-suggestion-larger-tech-trees

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13242-suggestion-tech-tree-without-leaves.

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13238-suggestion-uncommon-technologies

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13316-suggestion-tech-tree-revamp

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13339-suggestion-tech-tree-top-tier

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13730-suggestion-research-overhaul-randomized-tech-trees

/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13777-suggestion-race-specific-tech-trees

Feel free to post here about this topic here and inform yourself about the variations the threads listed above have already discussed, but don't open new suggestion threads for anything alike.

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

11 400g2g pts

12 years ago

May 28, 2012, 1:16:34 PM

StK wrote:
Hmm there never will be a perfect build that suits all starting situations...

It sounds kind of interesting BUT: I like to plan things: When I go for shields I want them to be there and not to meet a dead end or something else that might be nice but not what I needed. If nothing else it would wreak havoc on multiplayer

Wasen the idea of a randomised tech tree to preven players from doing exsactly that? To prevent player from being able to play the optimal tech routes, thats what mkaes a competitive good but this is a space opera, and would feel too like a game of starcraft.

beaker

Newcomer

beaker

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 28, 2012, 1:06:39 PM

JackalMctavish wrote:
You could make an option where you can turn on and off the randomized Tech Tree,now there is an idea

I think to give an option like that would really be a good thing.

But actually in my games i have always made different tech decisions, because the order you research depends on systems and their characteristics (and also other players' actions in-game), and because no two galaxies are the same i think this tech tree is "indirectly" randomized: you look at the actual situation, and try to figure out a solution that could probably give you more advantages than other, in short or medium or even long range.

The actual tech tree enables us to find, through "fixed" possibilities, the solution to the problems that will come out from an evolving universe, which i find not bad at all.

Randomization could be really funny and challenging, but at this time i can't think of something different that has already been written.

So maybe it would be better to give each faction more specific techs, and if it is really so important to randomize, maybe a solution could be to have a static general tech tree and another dynamic faction specific tech tree, so that generally every faction could follow a path that can be planned and plus eventually take an advantage from particular techs they have "randomly" dicovered (thanks to their own race driven scientific possibilities).

JackalMctavish

Newcomer

JackalMctavish

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 28, 2012, 8:19:46 AM

You could make an option where you can turn on and off the randomized Tech Tree,now there is an idea

kalanosh

Newcomer

kalanosh

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 28, 2012, 8:13:28 AM

Sorry I just joined and I am probably bringing up a dead tree. I am going through the tutorial now and the first thing I though of was random tech. I'd like to see some type of random tech, it's just nice to have a wrench thrown in your gear. I love randomness and what it forces you to accommodate to, but maybe some of you are right about it leaving you in a bad situation that isn't fun. So just do a little bit for it to vary per game, then have it check-able option

GozerTC

Old

GozerTC

Old

16 300g2g pts

12 years ago

May 12, 2012, 5:50:29 PM

I too would vote for a more "random" tech tree. Or at least even more spice to the racial specialized trees. Make the races techs feel more unique. Again a thing Sword of the Stars 1 and 2 did quite well.

Jethro

Newcomer

Jethro

Newcomer

12 800g2g pts

12 years ago

May 6, 2012, 4:42:25 AM

Part of this is really about capturing the excitement, and looking forward to seeing what options open up to you. Also, there need to be enough, so that if you don't have one, there is always another art that you might be able to use. It would also be interesting to use 'risky' strategies or options up your sleeve when you are on a losing path, things that might slow you, but really hurt the enemy as they invade your systems. Sometimes when the tide turns, you seem unable to stop it. It should not be quite so arbitrary.

Vellarain

Newcomer

Vellarain

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 12, 2012, 3:44:46 AM

Wow, this reminds me of Sword of the Stars... and I hated it! tech randomization leaves a gaping hole in my desire to have all the fancy tech options as I want them. Don't make me resort to stealing!

MrAgmoore

Newcomer

MrAgmoore

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 12, 2012, 3:29:28 AM

I have not played Sword of the Stars.

The best idea that I can come up with, based on what the original poster wrote and the existing tech tree structure, is to randomly blackout techs, with the exceptions of: race-specific techs; techs that require territorial resources ie. Titanium-70 ; techs that reveal strategic resources on the map and victory related conditions ).

The current tech tree has 4 sections: Galactic Warfare; Applied Science; Exploration and Expansion; Diplomacy and Trading.

"Blackout 1" would ask the code to randomly pick one of the above sections and then randomly blackout 1 tech in that section ( for example, the code randomly picks Applied Science and technology - Neural Robotics ( so you won't be able to play the Tactics card or use the 15% ship repair per battle )) for the entire game.

"Blackout 2" would ask the code to randomly pick two different sections and then randomly blackout 1 tech in each section ( for example, the code randomly picks Galactic warfare - HE batteries ( so you won't be able use 23 absorption or +60 invasion power ) and the code also randomly picks Exploration and Expansion - Maximized Exploitation ( so you won't get the hero bonuses ).

"Blackout 3" would be 1 random tech in 3 different sections.

"Blackout 4" would be 1 random techs in 4 different sections.

You would need some killer AI coding or this would be multiplayer only?

StK

Newcomer

StK

Newcomer

300g2g pts

12 years ago

May 11, 2012, 7:05:01 PM

Hmm there never will be a perfect build that suits all starting situations...

It sounds kind of interesting BUT: I like to plan things: When I go for shields I want them to be there and not to meet a dead end or something else that might be nice but not what I needed. If nothing else it would wreak havoc on multiplayer

Durandal4532

Newcomer

Durandal4532

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 11, 2012, 5:57:55 PM

I actually really enjoy the non-randomized tech tree. It's not revolutionary and it's not quite as neat as working your way up through the giant SotS tree, but it's simple, nicely interconnected, and it allows for reasonably quick responses to the actions of other players. I'm not really liking the idea of running into someone with a multitude of beam weapons and rolling the dice to see if I can get better defenses.

Now what I wouldn't mind is a ton more race-specific techs. Right now the Cravers feel a little too normal.

Tartopaum

Newcomer

Tartopaum

Newcomer

12 years ago

May 11, 2012, 5:12:18 PM

So, say I'm developing my cruisers and I need an advanced missile. I research the next level and find that I've made a breakthrough in, say, "Intelligent Drones" that require "Di-Methyl-Silica" to build. Now I've got to start looking around for the stuff...where is it? Oh no, to exploit it, I have to skip over to the Economics Tree and next research "Advanced Orbital Mining." I do that and am now able to discover and exploit "Di-Methyl-Silica." Great. Now begins the mad rush to find a planet with the stuff and colonize it before the other guy does...but then, maybe his advanced missiles depend upon some other tech entirely. But, it turns out, he needs the "Di-Methyl Silica" to fuel his next generation Battleships! So it is a race after all...

I agree with the importance of resources, but the way you present it makes me feel that you invented barbecue before even knowing that fire existed.

Shouldn't it be the other way? I think it would be more coherent if the discovery of new resources would open new perspectives, and techs that require such resources should remain hidden until then.

That way the race for resources is still present, but the uncertainty about what will be possible to research is stronger.