I loved Sword of the Stars tech tree system... the more this game takes from its tech tree the better I think. Tartopaums idea seems great! I just mostly also would like to avoid the best build situation that everybody would do for every race in every situation. If you don't think a randomized tech tree is the best way to avoid that then I'd love to hear the other magical solution...

Tartopaum wrote:


- Not all research fields are available from start. To unlock a research field, a player should encounter some prerequisites. For instance, to unlock the wormhole RF, one should first discover a wormhole,

I really agree with this one. I mean, logically, no one would suddenly say "hmm, i think there could possibly be a hard to reach area of space. i should develop a technology for that on the off chance that i'm right." It would be quite nice to, say, not be able to research the ability to colonize a Gas Giant (for instance) until you found a solar system with a Gas Giant. This could further be applied to weapon technology: You wouldn't develop a defence to Missiles before either developing missiles, or seeing someone else use a missile. Just a few thoughts for all you lovely people to chew on

I think that a nice way to combine randomized tech trees with (kinda) long-termed strategy and (kinda again) balance would be to implement research fields (RFs).

Let me explain:

- all players can technically access the same set of technologies, which may be randomly determined, and may be hidden,

- Every technology have prerequisites: a (more or less) randomly fixed amount of research points in certain fields for instance, or simply other technologies,

- Research fields may be, like, weapons, shields, but also light, nuclear, wormholes, gravity, etc...

- Not all research fields are available from start. To unlock a research field, a player should encounter some prerequisites. For instance, to unlock the wormhole RF, one should first discover a wormhole,

- RFs may also be unlocked thanks to the enemy, by spying on them, or by capturing ships,

- Some RFs may be unlocked as simple techs: by reaching a given value in some others RFs,

- RFs available from start may depend on the race and the starting planet/system of the players,

- To develop techs, one should invest more or less in given fields. For instance, investing massively in weapons and in nuclear RFs will fatally lead to more powerfull nuclear weapons, but may also unlock more efficient nuclear energy sources (who knows what else may be discovered if we keep researching that way?). That kind of "side discovery" (understand, unpredicted by the player) may lead to re-think one's strategy to take advantage of this new particularity.



Plus, I think that that kind of system may interoperate well with other ways of acquiring techs, via diplomacy or exploration for instance, because unlocking a given tech for which we do not meet prerequisites would not break the tree.

bolange wrote:
Randomized tech trees (as an option to be selected pregame) would be a great feature but I think it would be important that all players in the game have the same randomized techtree for balance purposes. This way you eliminate the "perfect build" and reward players who can make adjustments on the fly while still giving everyone the same opportunity.

Either that or have at least one Techpath (like the ones affecting weapons) fixed so that it can be countered.

Randomized tech trees (as an option to be selected pregame) would be a great feature but I think it would be important that all players in the game have the same randomized techtree for balance purposes. This way you eliminate the "perfect build" and reward players who can make adjustments on the fly while still giving everyone the same opportunity.

The idea is that if you go down the laser route, you might get a research option for "optical computers" or "high-energy laser link orbital" ("hello", for short), but if you go down the tachyon route, you get options for "FTL communication" or "Inverse causality computer". Not sure if I'm making this any clearer: Both routes give you some relatively linear research relevant to beam weapons, but laser gives you one set of related research and tachyon another.

orionite wrote:
What about different flavors of technology? Almost all SciFi 4X games I've played allow you to research lasers, tachyon, plasma, graviton, etc, weapons. Sometimes in parallel, sometimes they are sequential. Wouldn't it be nice to get essentially the same main benefit from lasers (+1/+5+10 damage, whatever), as well as some unique "laser-specific" perks, as you would get when researching tachyon technology - again (+1/+5/+10 damage), but with different perks.

What are these "perks" of which you speak?

First off: Hi dev community



I like the idea of randomness in the research tree, since I always found it odd that you should know all the best steps to get to a given piece of technology - and indeed the existence of that technology. I think the option of turning this on or off, as someone already suggested, should give everyone what they want.



I'd like to add another variant to the discussion: What about different flavors of technology? Almost all SciFi 4X games I've played allow you to research lasers, tachyon, plasma, graviton, etc, weapons. Sometimes in parallel, sometimes they are sequential. Wouldn't it be nice to get essentially the same main benefit from lasers (+1/+5+10 damage, whatever), as well as some unique "laser-specific" perks, as you would get when researching tachyon technology - again (+1/+5/+10 damage), but with different perks.



During each game you may not have access to each type of beam weapon technology, but still derive the same base benefits, with added tech specific flavor. This way each game becomes more unique and colorful.



Another idea: Randomization within a known set of technologies. To avoid dead ending a branch, but still providing some uncertainty and a "fog of knowledge" the sequence in which technology is researched could be randomized, or the amount of "research points" it takes for each one may vary by an unknown percentage.



Disclosure: I have not been reading these forums for long and I have not seen the game in alpha. So forgive me if this is a repetition.

My suggestions :



1 - Simplify the tech-tree display in some way. When I looked at the tech-tree, it looked.. overwhelming. I would like to see, at least the first game, most options beyond the first few technologies obscured in some way. Perhaps make the more militant ones an angry red, the biological/growth geared ones green, the science/scientific blue, etc.. The spider webbing with dead ends is a fantastic idea if it can be made to work.

2. Elements of random would be amazing. An element of random WOULD and, IS gold. Sword of the stars was incredible, fully agree with the OP - And the RANDOMNESS of the tech-tree made for the most amazing experience. Who knows what the future holds?! Let us make choices according to what is available in our game, rather than follow some rigid rule about how to create an overpowered tech.

3. I worked my guts out for AI in SOTS - only to have some planets go rogue, and it took me a while to crush the rebellion. It was totally absorbing. And it shocked me when it happened. Shock me. Suprise me. Make weapons do DIFFERENT things, not just all the same, and PLEASE avoid the whole laser+1 thing, It would kill the game for me. I would like to see the technologies, especially the random ones, open up interesting openings and possibilities.





My few cents.

Teran wrote:


Cancer research is conducted because the researches and investors assume a cure for cancer will be found at some point in the future. People who have had cancer at one point have been completely cured, this is not disputed however just why or how that person was cured is unknown but once that reason is known then a cure can be created, or at the very least a little more is understood about cancer bringing the future tech one step closer to the present.

3 things you probably dont know, 1 research is always business sale driven. They dont research and give grants to cancer research out of the "kindness" of their little black hearts. Any company that manages to create a really effective cancer drug will be billions richer over night.



2. There was a little known drug created some 15-20 years ago. Its designed purpose was to treat high blood pressure, it totally failed in that aspect. But what it did do was become one of the most popular drugs in the modern market. It is called Viagra.



3. Brain damaged induced comas are something the body can never recover from, you can't wake up ever. Though something truly odd happened. A sleep aid (yes a sleeping pill) was given to a coma patient and they woke up for a few hours and then go back into a coma.



My point being is this, linear technological development is not so linear. It more about stumbling upon the answer and not knowing what you have.