Stealth_Hawk wrote:
Actually, I just wish all the other AI players would realize what the two strongest factions are doing and band together in a 6 on 2 alliance.



But I see your point. More espionage than 'Science leaking' should be in the game.



P.S. Game Design proposal thread?

I just have to say that there are tons of espionage proposals. Please don't post another one, better unearth a viable main thread.

I wasn't trying to start a new thread per se. I am very frustrated right now. I have lost 3 games in a row because the two strongest factions that should never find themselves in a permanent alliance are wiping the this corner of the galaxy with all of us.



I love this game, but there are fundamental things that need serious consideration. Individual A.I. personality that is unique and plays a certain way is one of them, and espionage would be very important to that.



I am about to put the game down and wait because of how mad I am at the moment.



On Edit: Sheredyn and Hissho would never ally with one another for any period of time unless they were fighting off a major threat. The long alliance makes the Sheredyn/U.E. much more powerful than Hissho could ever be. It would not be in the Hisshos interest to do that.

Well killing the weak is the best policy.



But it would be cool to have a diplo modifier for making everyone hate the strongest power more and like everyone else much more.

Igncom1 wrote:
Well killing the weak is the best policy.



But it would be cool to have a diplo modifier for making everyone hate the strongest power more and like everyone else much more.

Here's the thing, how are they even allied. I would think that this alliance would be similar to Klingons and Romulans allying together. They'd do it for a short time to fight the Dominion, but other than that, they hate one another.



I am not the dominion.

Nasarog wrote:
Here's the thing, how are they even allied. I would think that this alliance would be similar to Klingons and Romulans allying together. They'd do it for a short time to fight the Dominion, but other than that, they hate one another.



I am not the dominion.

Oh, like a 'wartime' alliance. AKA we hate eachother, but we have to work together to survive. Hey, what about an orange alliance symbol between the holograms in the diplomacy window? that could work.



btw Borg and Federation are an even better example than Klingon and Romulan

Well they keep rebounding off of the benefit of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" and possibly into a cold war effect where the constant crushing of the smaller powers is necessary to keep the powers in competition with each other (Less risk getting behind) but because they are expending forces on it they can't afford to get into a much more dangerous war.



Once every one else is gone and conquered it is likely they still won't war due to the possibility of losing such a war, leading to another type of victory.



Losing is unacceptable, so why risk it on such a war that they could actually lose?



Galactic stalemate.

Nasarog wrote:


On Edit: Sheredyn and Hissho would never ally with one another for any period of time unless they were fighting off a major threat. The long alliance makes the Sheredyn/U.E. much more powerful than Hissho could ever be. It would not be in the Hisshos interest to do that.

Smurfs (Ultramarines) / Tau Alliance much anyone? (Warhammer 40K ref)

Igncom1 wrote:
Well they keep rebounding off of the benefit of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" and possibly into a cold war effect where the constant crushing of the smaller powers is necessary to keep the powers in competition with each other (Less risk getting behind) but because they are expending forces on it they can't afford to get into a much more dangerous war.



Once every one else is gone and conquered it is likely they still won't war due to the possibility of losing such a war, leading to another type of victory.



Losing is unacceptable, so why risk it on such a war that they could actually lose?



Galactic stalemate.

OMG. That victory condition would be AWESOME!! (especially considering the relatively small tech tree) You're a genius Igncom1

We need that bad, really bad. In my current game, the two strongest empires, Sheredyn and Hissho have been allied for 50% of the game and they are systematically eliminating everyone. There has to be a way to break that alliance up.



Espionage would be it. The events already exist as random events, but I wish we could actually instigate them ourselves.

Nasarog wrote:
Here's the thing, how are they even allied. I would think that this alliance would be similar to Klingons and Romulans allying together. They'd do it for a short time to fight the Dominion, but other than that, they hate one another.



I am not the dominion.

as a Treki i have to say that the Romulans would never have joined the Klingons-Federation Alliance if Captain.Sisko didnt had murdered the romulan ambassador and blackmailed the Dominion for it.



The Dominion would have won the War without doubt. (and that even without any reinforcements from the Gamma Quadrant...pfff dam Prophets always hated them -.-)



i dont think Picard would have done that, Janeway Yes,Archer Yes...Kirk...Yes(cause Spok would have told him so^^) ; /





so without any Heroes or espionage yes i agree its most unlikely that factions witch hate each other so much would ever ally themselves.

And if there is no Sisko...even not when the Dominion comes.

Sovereign wrote:
as a Treki i have to say that the Romulans would never have joined the Klingons-Federation Alliance if Captain.Sisko didnt had murdered the romulan ambassador and blackmailed the Dominion for it.



The Dominion would have won the War without doubt. (and that even without any reinforcements from the Gamma Quadrant...pfff dam Prophets always hated them -.-)



i dont think Picard would have done that, Janeway Yes,Archer Yes...Kirk...Yes(cause Spok would have told him so^^) ; /





so without any Heroes or espionage yes i agree its most unlikely that factions witch hate each other so much would ever ally themselves.

And if there is no Sisko...even not when the Dominion comes.

Sisko and ST logic aside, I used the ST universe as an example of an unlikely alliance in a case of dire need. It didn't last long, and while it was underway, each faction was looking to get an advantage over it's "allies" and it had contingency plans in place for the eventual collapse.



Back to ES: no such mechanic really exists now. Each A.I. plays the same as every other A.I. without a single noticeable distinction and espionage isn't really there. There is an underlying current of espionage, but it's not under your control. One of the only things that the ES A.I. does right is that it doesn't distinguish at all between a human and another A.I. player. At least there is that.

stasik28 wrote:
Smurfs (Ultramarines) / Tau Alliance much anyone? (Warhammer 40K ref)







OMG. That victory condition would be AWESOME!! (especially considering the relatively small tech tree) You're a genius Igncom1

Yup, that would be one example. Another would be working with the Eldar against Chaos or Necrons.

Perhaps the Khaak allying with the Xenons is a better example...

Mhhhh Borg and Federation made temp. alliance against species 8472

Let's just summarize: Desperation drives people to make the weirdest alliances one can imagine.

Nosferatiel wrote:
Let's just summarize: Desperation drives people to make the weirdest alliances one can imagine.

Yes, when the situation calls for it. These A.I. are forming these alliances for the whole game. The various parties then turn around and attack of the players that are of the same species as they are.



WHy would a Hissho and Sheredyn form an alliance to wipe out another Hissho and Sheredyn faction. Why would a long term alliance like this occur when both factions are going for the same victory conditions?

Nasarog wrote:
Yes, when the situation calls for it. These A.I. are forming these alliances for the whole game. The various parties then turn around and attack of the players that are of the same species as they are.



WHy would a Hissho and Sheredyn form an alliance to wipe out another Hissho and Sheredyn faction. Why would a long term alliance like this occur when both factions are going for the same victory conditions?

Alliance mechanics need a major Overhaul (maybe)



1) Allied fleet support/joint military operations

2) Joint research capabilities

3) Allied victory conditions



Just to name a few

Stealth_Hawk wrote:
Alliance mechanics need a major Overhaul (maybe)



1) Allied fleet support/joint military operations

2) Joint research capabilities

3) Allied victory conditions



Just to name a few

That could be in another expansion, but a temporary work around would be a re-evaluation of the alliance when it automatically expires every 30 turns (arbitrary#). If one member significantly benefits from the alliance, then the other member/s would be suspicious as relations would adjust the way they normally do.