LordReynolds wrote:
The instant land invasion is bad: Once a critical mass of invasion ships is reached it will be impossible to stop and you lose system after system in quick succession.





Generall all of this has the very real drawback that i can just pile on more ships: but the planet cant pile on more defenses.



All in all i dislike this alot.

Well, since you have to "load" troop modules with population of a planet after each invasion, if successful or not, you cannot make an invasion army without extensive logistics. Retreating the invasion fleet to resupply and coming back, again, while you'd have to leave some kind of occupation fleet in the orbit to secure your newly acquired system would probably be needed.

Of course this requires necessarily that you cannot draft the newly occupied system's population for your empire's army and load them into the troop modules, but you could easily fix this with a minimum approval requirement for a draft and/or requirement of colony status with a certain minimal control level.

All I want to see is a specific cutscene which will show battles on planets. Obviously it is about 10 (number of factions) types of attackers and 10 types of defenders.

Invasion cut scenes could be nice but they would get tiresome after a while. Unless the player had to input battle actions or cards, I could see most players skipping over them quickly.



"Sowers: For each troop succeeding the invasion, the system obtains a permanent bonus in industry of +X"

The permanent industry boost is really enticing for the sowers to expand and terraform the galaxy. However, the sowers (in their current state) cannot afford to sacrifice their population for the chance at a quick victory.



The way the land invasion is shaping up to be, it is vastly in favor of the food intensive factions like the Horatio and Cravers. Which is good for the Horatio because it makes their unique food techs much more valuable.

For the pilgrims: when they lose a system through a land invasion, have a little chance to spawn a colonization ship for scaping the system. Maybe this can be achieved only if a certain technology is discovered, and a "scape ship" (system improvement) has been built in the system. The probability of spawning the colonization ship could be increased building more of this improvements, but this probability should not be too high in order to avoid balance issues.

This looks good. I'd be happy if this was added to the game as is.

Initially I had worried about quickly flipping until I looked at it again. The old method allowed cascade type losses without to much time to respond. This will slow that down nicely and allow reactions and better counter attacks. Adds a little more flavor and depths without to much the cost of turn length. Removes the Pure Combat fleet that does everything rule, and that's nice.

Nosferatiel wrote:
Well, since you have to "load" troop modules with population of a planet after each invasion, if successful or not, you cannot make an invasion army without extensive logistics. Retreating the invasion fleet to resupply and coming back, again, while you'd have to leave some kind of occupation fleet in the orbit to secure your newly acquired system would probably be needed.

Of course this requires necessarily that you cannot draft the newly occupied system's population for your empire's army and load them into the troop modules, but you could easily fix this with a minimum approval requirement for a draft and/or requirement of colony status with a certain minimal control level.

oh yes. because drafting pop is not the sure sign that the first thing people will mod in is the option to just glass the planet from orbit and save themselves the hassle....



Seriously:



Guys, this games major boon is that the amount of micro mangement is toelrably small. Do not forget that boon.





Having to personalyl manage every little action is bad, we are the leading class. not the "go tell 3 pop from beta leuquemia to becoem troops" logistics guy sitting in some dank office.



If you want to seriously draft troops from the empires population, make it an empire option.

"i need 200 ground troops"

Then the whole empire gets to err, fckn, and gives you yout troops at your homeworld ready to be stuck in a ship, after a while shippign them takes time, the bigger the emprie the more time. perhaps you then mgiht want to send them to some sort of training world which has facilites to train the fckers....

I never got an answer to my question: Is it really the developer's intention that any troop module can take a planet by siege in 10 turns maximum, regardless of the strength of the defense vs. offense?



Or, did they mean that unless you have 10 invasion to 1 defense (hence 10 turns), you can't invade at all? This seems like a huge discrepancy to me.

What it says is that progress is capped between 1% and 10%. That is, it's a minimum of 10 turns.

looks good i am looking forwed for it

Great changes!

I would like to try them out as soon as possible.

Anything is better than what we have now. Bring it on!!!

Vypuero wrote:
I never got an answer to my question: Is it really the developer's intention that any troop module can take a planet by siege in 10 turns maximum, regardless of the strength of the defense vs. offense?



Or, did they mean that unless you have 10 invasion to 1 defense (hence 10 turns), you can't invade at all? This seems like a huge discrepancy to me.

With troops, you can take the system in 1 turn.



However, if the defenses are too strong, the attack will fail and the attacker will loose soldiers.



If the probability rate is high, however, the system will be taken the next turn. It will always be either one turn or not at all with a troop invasion.



Success Probability = {Invasion Percent * [(TroopQuantity*CoefficientTroopefficiency)+(F&BQuantity*CoefficientF&Befficiency)] - [InvasionDefence*(1-InvasionPercent)]} / Invasion Defence





Sieges, on the other hand, are like what we have now. They will take at least 10 turns, but no more than 100. (depends on invasion power and defense).

Stealth_Hawk wrote:
With troops, you can take the system in 1 turn.

However, if the defenses are too strong, the attack will fail and the attacker will loose soldiers.

Sieges, on the other hand, are like what we have now. They will take at least 10 turns, but no more than 100. (depends on invasion power and defense).

Can you actually lose troops that are in the invasion modules right now? Or will that be in the expansion?

Why can't an invasion be a siege? I'd say the Siege of (Insert name of X planet here) sounds better than the Invasion of (X planet here)

stasik28 wrote:
Can you actually lose troops that are in the invasion modules right now? Or will that be in the expansion?

Why can't an invasion be a siege? I'd say the Siege of (Insert name of X planet here) sounds better than the Invasion of (X planet here)

All the things that I mentioned will be exclusive to the expansion pack.



Gosh, read the OP lol

Stealth_Hawk wrote:
All the things that I mentioned will be exclusive to the expansion pack.



Gosh, read the OP lol

rofl, I read this so long ago, I didn't want to bother re reading XDD

I wish that the first 2-3 posts of each of these threads had a summation of the various good ideas that were suggested so that we could see them all in one spot and not have to read through a long thread like this. I'll be implementing this idea in any thread that I start to save people the hassle/time of having to read through multiple pages.

Stealth thanks - I went back and re-read the original post, and now I understand it. I had trouble because the English is a bit unconventional (which is understandable, but makes it harder for me sometimes).

Land Invasion sounds nice as a concept, BUT...



I for one loved the fleet battle with tactical cards (and flashy graphics). It gives something to do and see and greatly improves immersion.



Land Invasion sounds quite raw on comparison. Its like "auto resolve" without even the cards (and hence no player input).



I think we should have:

1 - Battle cards for invasion (Querilla tactics, Mass destruction, Invasion of population centers, etc etc)

2 - Flashy graphics playing while the battle is resolved. (System screen with explosions and unrealistically sized troops and fighters moving around etc)



That could be stuff for a whole expansion though?

Meedoc wrote:


Dear community,

Here is the second design document for the expansion pack! Don't hesitate to have a look and give us your comments.

I welcome heartily this expansion plan and this increase in complexity and choice, but personally would like to see some sort of system-based defences in place other than just resistance added to siege duration or this new invasion system or a simple 'if we have more fighters we win' system in Bombardment.





Given we can put extreme investment into fortifying a system, it'd be nice if orbiting fleets can actually take damage and losses if the ground defences are strong enough... Ideally even put some ground-based turrets and/or hangars as system improvements that create a separate statistic to the current system 'Defence':





'Defence' would be equivalent (as it is now) to resilience and fortification - we get this from Stealth Construction, Bunkers etc and it slows sieges (or stops them altogether if powerful enough) and presumably will lend resilience, armour, 'hit-points', damage mitigation during invasions and orbital bombardments.







'Counter-Batteries' or 'Counter-fire' could be the name of the second, and would be dependent on similarly upkeep-costing emplacements that effectively 'fire back' at enemy warships, but would contribute very little (if at all) to the 'Defence' statistic and the actual resilience against siege itself, thereby these emplacements would not buy more time in Sieges directly, nor would they mitigate against damage caused by invaders, but would give the opportunity to deal some damage back, and to guard against light raiders attacking opportunistically, pirates and those unaware of their presence. They would not damage enemy fleets blockading a system.





- In Sieges, this would cause minor attrition damage to the ships' hulls (depending on their armour or defences) each turn, that has a chance of getting kills in prolonged sieges if the ground batteries are strong enough, but otherwise chips down the health each turn, weakening the besieging fleet against any future relief forces.



- In Invasions, this would increase invaders' losses and thereby chance of losing, but contribute no 'hitpoints' or 'ownership' bonus like the current Defence stat.



- In System Bombardment they would engage enemy ships directly, resulting in direct damage to both sides over the course of the single engagement instead of the attrition-basis of Sieges. By this method, System Improvement batteries providing Counter-fire could be damaged and destroyed by direct engagement by enemy warships, but equally they exchange direct fire, exposing the bombarding fleet to battle damage. If the invaders choose to use bombs that target improvements, they will thus target these defence structures first.







Just my take on this whole system, I feel the suggestions above are, whilst good, very simple and based on Systems being entirely passive objects whose defences are purely in the form of protective armour, and have no actual capacity to 'shoot back'. Such 'Counter Batteries' would, of course, have to have appropriately progressive strength through research, require investment and time to construct and be balanced as such that it's very hard to construct batteries sufficient to ever defeat a properly built invasion force, but I feel they deserve a place in Endless Space.

PekkaTa wrote:
Land Invasion sounds nice as a concept, BUT...



I for one loved the fleet battle with tactical cards (and flashy graphics). It gives something to do and see and greatly improves immersion.



Land Invasion sounds quite raw on comparison. Its like "auto resolve" without even the cards (and hence no player input).



I think we should have:

1 - Battle cards for invasion (Querilla tactics, Mass destruction, Invasion of population centers, etc etc)

2 - Flashy graphics playing while the battle is resolved. (System screen with explosions and unrealistically sized troops and fighters moving around etc)



That could be stuff for a whole expansion though?

I think on (2) that actual battle scenes for ground would inevitably look poor in ES, BUT I absolutely agree with (1), there should definitely be player and hero input (including new Dust-costing skills for heroes) for land invasions. And, on the same topic, it would be nice whilst these phases using said cards and abilities were going on, one could witness the explosions and some sort of graphical representation (colour-coded borders overlaying the planet surface?) of the balance of power from the normal planet and system views in ES as the battle occurs, just for the immersion.