I had a read of Calico's latest post and was happily surprised to see that we're really making good progress. Please keep it up everybody, I think this is going somewhere, and this is particularly thanks to Calico, Dr_Mox, ElegantCaveman and others.



Following my last post I now took into account what Calico wrote and tried to merge them slightly. No two people have the same ideas and it's difficult to take various long posts and turn them into on, so please forgive me if I misunderstood some things here or there or left something out... consider it a work in progress!



So, here goes:



Calico's idea to actually spell out the various steps, i.e. the actual invasion process, was a good one and it proved to be quite the enjoyable read. However, the way I understood it, "bombard" was an option which followed right onto "invade", with the three separate options "eliminate", "enslave" and "symbiosis" following on afterwards. This would have to be altered in order to subordinate "bombard" to the option "eliminate", as you wouldn't want to subject a system to orbital bombing if you plan to offer them peaceful annexation later on



Generally speaking, however, I'm supportive of the process looking as follows:



Step 1: Invade



Step 2: Select option

- EXTERMINATE/ELIMINATE (leading to orbital bombardment)

- SUBJUGATE/ENSLAVE

- GRANT FREEDOM/SYMBIOSIS



Step 3: Aftermath

Deal with the advantages and disadvantages of the selection made, i.e. appease rioters or clamp down on insurgencies in a system which you've subjugated, or build cultural exchange centres and joint science centres etc should you have decided to grant the alien populations their freedom.



Step 4: Change choice (Optional)

Importantly, I think there should be a step 4 which is optional but permits the player to undo previous choices (except when he has previously chosen EXTERMINATE) and sort of comprises the same list of options contained in Step 2. After all, it's only logical that a player irritated by a seemingly endless insurgency in a recently conquered system might decide that he actually wants to exterminate the local population after all and be done with it because the war's spinning out of control elsewhere and he doesn't have the time to sort some unhappy locals out. Alternatively, he could relent and grant the uprising slaves who only want to live peacefully in their homes and desire the same rights as everyone else their freedom and thus absorb them into his empire, making a transition from SUBJUGATE/ENSLAVE to GRANT FREEDOM/SYMBIOSIS - in this case there should definitely be some disadvantages for the player because he did not immediately pick the good/peaceful route but rather wanted to enslave the local alien populations and it should not be as easy to return to normal system happiness and productivity in this scenario than if the player had opted for the good option immediately and had granted the local alien populations their freedom from the outset. In the long term, however, moving from SUBJUGATE/ENSLAVE to GRANT FREEDOM/SYMBIOSIS could have some advantageous side effects, such as a faction specific event like "Abolition of slavery" etc...



I also think that the option ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT which falls under EXTERMINATE/SYMBIOSIS should be a rather final option. Although I really liked your thoughts on damaged and destroyed infrastructure and a suffering population, with the option of either subjecting a system to an orbital bombing and then invade what's left or continue the orbital bashing until the alien populations on the system's planets have been utterly wiped out, I think there may be a problem here Calico in that the planets so far have either been equipped with cities nor individual buildings and facilities and damage to infrastructure is, at least at the moment, not really measurable. Also, all building is done by the player through improvements rather than actual facilities which you can see on the ground (such as in the Total War games). Although I would very much like to see implemented what you are suggesting, I think it would be better if we currently offered the Devs an easier to programme and implement route/concept. But hopefully they would add the more detailed stuff later on!



Regarding the REPATRIATE option which I had initially come up with, I agree in hindsight that it would create difficulties "emptying" an entire system and sending the populations home. Should the player continue a military campaign to conquer a couple of dozen enemy worlds then that enemy's home systems would be bursting with refugees should the player decide to repatriate the aliens every time... I think though that I had perceived the REPATRIATE option as more of a symbolic thing, i.e. they are granted permission to travel into systems owned by their own race and that would be it, there wouldn't actually be any convoys of ships arriving and filling up the enemy's systems, but that may be too unrealistic for us realism-junkies...



Look forward to your thoughts!

Since my other thread is dead, here's my old suggestions, with the changes I made as I posted included. Naturally, any suggestions you have would be appreciated.

Why would a captured Hissho colony just deal with foreign occupation? Why would they take surrender, rather than go out guns blazing, as they should?



Here's a suggestion to rectify this: Captured planets have their own behaviors much separate than that of other planets, rather than just a happiness penalty. And why don't planets get damaged when they're invaded?



When capturing a planet, there should be a chance to spawn various anomalies, such as 'War-torn', which, say, indicates you've damaged buildings in your assault, lowering industry on the planet. Maybe you sent some bombs down! More unhappiness and less food for 'Fallout'. How about 'Civil Unrest'? Surely those darned citizens won't stand up for your occupation of their world! You'd better do some research and apply to brainwashing treatment on them to pacify them! Maybe 'Terrorist Uprisings' will occur by patriotic groups unwilling to forget their heritage, causing a small amount of ships / research projects created in that system to be cancelled.



So, basically, I'm suggesting penalties to invading a homeworld. These are:



Invasion of Planet based anomalies

Small chance of sprouting up

-War-torn: With buildings damaged and families torn, industry is lowered.

-Fallout: Your bombs had consequences! Food is harder to grow and there's a large unhappiness problem.

-Major Fallout: Much more serious. Food is nearly impossible to grow, population lowers immensely.



Civil Unrest based anomalies

Small or large chance of sprouting up, based on faction invading and faction being invaded. Cravers against Hissho will basically be guaranteed to spawn racism or some other form of unrest.

-Civil Unrest: Citizens are uprising! All forms of production are lowered, makeshift weapons are used to attack fleets orbiting this system, evolves into Mass Uprising if not solved.

-Mass Uprising: Wars break out before the remaining loyalists and the oppressed citizens. Population lowers, production grinds to a halt. Will eventually lead to either the planet turning into a pirate one (or becoming part of their old empire again), or the total destruction of the planet.

-Terrorist Strikes: Small groups unwilling to forget their old empires! Sometimes your construction projects will be destroyed right as they're about to complete. Chance to lower population on planet every turn, on average might do so on one out of eight turns.

-Racism (Available for all species, but Cravers, Hissho and Sowers have a very large chance to trigger it): Your citizens are rebelling against the others. Population lowers until there's one population left. Depending on who 'wins' (chance-based), the planet will revert to Civil Unrest, or will have no unrest based anomaly.

-Betrayal: Never sprouts on it's own. You've destroyed the loyal citizens' empire, and now they're mad! FIDS is severely decreassed, and if left alone, this planet will either turn into a pirate planet, or destroy itself.

-Vengefulness: Never sprouts on it's own. To avenge nearby systems stolen by you, these people will go on strike, slowing down FIDS, eventually turning the planet into it's first owner's empire, or into a pirate one, depending on how high their happiness with the previous empire was. Much rarer than Betrayal.



Liberation based anomalies

Sometimes, systems that are extremely unhappy, such as ones in a barren / asteroid / lava only planet, will be joyful to be under the rule of a new empire. These apply as long as you maintain a happiness in that system higher than it's previous owners.

-Liberation: You've liberated this colony! As long as you maintain a happiness higher than the previous owners did, this planet will produce more in all fields of FIDS!

-Mutual Cooperation: (For similiar species, such as Horatio and Horatio, or Sophons and Sophons, or citizens of similar moralities. Horatio would have a decent chance with good empires, whereas Sophons would have almost no chance with evil empires.) Recognizing your similar goals, the citizens' leaders have decided to cooperate with you. Industry and science are increased, but if you destroy the citizens' empire, this bonus will turn into Betrayal. If you destroy nearby planets owned by their empire, it turns into vengefulness. Neither will occur if happiness is high enough.



Research projects / 'Cures'

-Restoration (Unlocks restoration): Cures War-torn, fallout, and major fallout

-'Special Education' and 'Civilian Removal' Programs (unlocks Reeducation, and Extermination for Racism): Cures Civil Unrest, Mass Uprising, Betrayal and Racism.

-Slaughter: Docking a ship at a planet lets you slaughter all civilians over the period of a few turns, leaving 1-3 population on each planet and removing civil unrest anomalies, but it may affect your happiness on all systems. May rarely cause one of the invasion anomalies.

-Enslave: You will enslave your planet, by docking a ship at a planet and using it's troops. Terrorist Strikes anomaly will be added if there's none already, but industry will greatly increase. Happiness will go down.

-For the Empire!: The citizens are fighting back on their own! Population will go down a bit, and FIDS will slow by 20-40%, but at the end, the planet will be free of it's anomaly. This has a medium chance when you have medium happiness, and very high chance when you have good happiness. (As a whole empire). Takes 2-4 turns, but you can dock a ship to speed it up to 1-3.



(Note: Cravers have highest chance for racism, Hissho and Sowers have a very large chance, United Empire has a medium-large chance, Horatios have a medium-large chance, Sophons have a small chance, Pilgrims and Amoeba have the smallest chances)

PREVIOUS POST REWORKED AND MERGED WITH CALICO’S



Please let me first apologies for the length of this one, but this is only a “wall of text” (quoting Calico) because I merged both our long posts into one… but mainly it’s only so long because of Calico, so please blame him! Haha



Second, I would like to express my biggest thanks to everyone for contributing so heavily in this thread. Particularly Calico has gone to immense effort to contribute and I thus decided to merge his last post with my last points, in order to come up with a workable template on the basis of which we can now take this concept a step further. Anyone wishing to contribute please work from this post, tweaking it and using the same structure and copy and paste – it’s better if we all work from the same body of text / draft template..



Here goes….





Step 1: Invade system





Step 2: Select assault method

-EXTERMINATE via orbital bombardment. This will order your Fleet to use Weapons of Mass Destruction against all major cities and military installations, which will lead to



-INVADE using ground troops. This will land ground troops on the planets in the system in order to take control of any important military and civilian targets.





Step 3: Select occupation method

-SUBJUGATE/DEPOPULATE. This option allows you to enslave the local inhabitants with a view to slowly depopulate the planets in terms of alien inhabitants using “hard labour”. While the starving and dying slaves work under control of your guards to keep the basic infrastructure running, the first transports arrive. Recruitement programmes are running all over your empire, promising a new life and very good real-estate prices. Sure, there still are uprisings, sabotage and occassional guerilla attacks, not to mention the PR desaster when a few fugitives managed to get away.... but nothing you can't handle. Bombarding a few Workcamps with orbital weapons quelled any unrest... for now. And you envision a bright future for this new colony, once the former inhabitants are taken care of.



-SUBJUGATE/ENSLAVE. This option allows you to enslave the local inhabitants with a view to keep them alive and, eventually, maybe even integrate them into your empire either as 2nd class citizens or even giving them full rights and citizenship similar to GRANT FREEDOM, although with penalties because they were enslaved first. Your last transports are landing, bringing in the adminstrative staff... and you eagerly get to work. And you will make sure that the natives do the same... production quotas want to be met. Using some pure Force, some "Carrot and Stick" and some reeducation, you make the inhabitants understand that they have nothing to fear... unless they are lazy. And most of them understand that there are worse fates in this harsh Galaxy. Still, there is a resistance out there. They might not have a lot of equipment, but they make up for it with the sheer will to fight for their freedom. You will need to closely monitor their activities, otherwise you might have a full blown rebellion on your hands. Anyway you are making good progress and the natives will give in at some point, your advisors assure you. And you promise to the working masses that they might even become citiziens some day. Second class, of course.



-GRANT FREEDOM. This option allows you to grant the local inhabitants their freedom, absorbing them into your empire as equals and with full citizen status. Your first action as new ruler of this system was to contact any higher-ranking officials that haven't fled the Capital. Your first promise to them was that the wounded will be treated, the sick and homeless will be taken into care. First priority is to get the civilian infrastructure back-up and running you told them. Most of them didn't believe you, but some were eager to hear about your rebuilding plans. After working the night through, the first reports come in. Some of the officials you talked with mobilized what remains of their people and are handing out supplies given to them by your armed forces. The first step to a brighter future has been made. But before that can take place you have to attend to the present. Your military forces only control a few key locations, keeping the presence low and working hard to aid the civilian populations. Of course, this comes at a price. The resistance is strong and waits for any signs of weakness. It's up to you to persuade them that the propaganda they have heard for so long just isn't true... and that will take time and effort. But one Day they won't see you as an Enemy anymore, but rather as a Partner.









Step 4: Change choice (Optional)

Importantly, I think there should be a step 4 which is optional but permits the player to undo previous choices (except when he has previously chosen EXTERMINATE) and sort of comprises the same list of options contained in Step 2. After all, it's only logical that a player irritated by a seemingly endless insurgency in a recently conquered system might decide that he actually wants to exterminate the local population after all and be done with it because the war's spinning out of control elsewhere and he doesn't have the time to sort some unhappy locals out. Alternatively, he could relent and grant the uprising slaves who only want to live peacefully in their homes and desire the same rights as everyone else their freedom and thus absorb them into his empire - in this case there should definitely be some disadvantages for the player because he did not immediately pick the good/peaceful route but rather wanted to enslave the local alien populations and it should not be as easy to return to normal system happiness and productivity in this scenario than if the player had opted for the good option immediately and had granted the local alien populations their freedom from the outset. In the long term, however, moving from SUBJUGATE/ENSLAVE to GRANT FREEDOM/SYMBIOSIS could have some advantageous side effects, such as a faction specific event like "Abolition of slavery" etc...

Nice feedbac Calico and Dr_Mox, much to think about there....

Mansen wrote:
I'd love to see the feature being implemented in some way - much like MOO2 had race specific populations. You had to decide whether to kill off (forcibly move them away) slowly (one time non cancellable decision) or let them stay and have them slowly change to your race (slow emmigration and race mixing I suppose)



Thing is - it has to be done properly the first time. So I'd prefer it if the feature was held off until the current big things are done. It's not a simple fix

Calico wrote:
Yeah, thats kinda what we are looking for. Mixed Alien Populations and how you choose to integrate them in your empire (or choose not to integrate them). MOO2 made a small and nice start, but thats 16 years old. I think it can evolve a bit. For now we are still discussing the possibilities here, hopefully coming up with a solution that will satisfy us and help the Devs, if they wish to implement it.



We are not looking for this to be introduced fast (aka release in a month or so), but rather as a Expansion/DLC/Big Patch later after the release.

Yes how very true, given even the "flesh" in the Beta notes you can see this is definitely wishful thinking post release atm.



@n18991c



Pretty cool stuff, with Calico's additional, looks pretty robust and gives the whole approach a greater amount of depth and characterful flexibility/choice.



Some things from my perspective here:



Eliminate

I would have seen this as a Quarantine process, nothing gets out, everything is eliminated, no colonisation can take place until the entire system is reduced to 1 pop. So maybe the Fleet CP or MP affects how the rate of pop reduction occurs or the potential Invasion Mp brought to bear each turn.



Enslave

Pop is auto reduced by X/Turn for Y Turns and dispersed to fill up available colonial space in Empire with an attendant % Approval Rating Drop in respective System. Atleast you got a boost to pop if you need it.

Colonisation can return to normal after Y Turns of Slaver Relocation has occured.



Symbiosis

The idea behind Resistance is good, all 3 choices should have definitely elements of this in greater and lesser degrees.



Great ideas!

+1 Yarr!! 3

Mansen wrote:
I'd love to see the feature being implemented in some way - much like MOO2 had race specific populations. You had to decide whether to kill off (forcibly move them away) slowly (one time non cancellable decision) or let them stay and have them slowly change to your race (slow emmigration and race mixing I suppose)



Thing is - it has to be done properly the first time. So I'd prefer it if the feature was held off until the current big things are done. It's not a simple fix

Yeah, thats kinda what we are looking for. Mixed Alien Populations and how you choose to integrate them in your empire (or choose not to integrate them). MOO2 made a small and nice start, but thats 16 years old. I think it can evolve a bit. For now we are still discussing the possibilities here, hopefully coming up with a solution that will satisfy us and help the Devs, if they wish to implement it.



We are not looking for this to be introduced fast (aka release in a month or so), but rather as a Expansion/DLC/Big Patch later after the release.

I'd love to see the feature being implemented in some way - much like MOO2 had race specific populations. You had to decide whether to kill off (forcibly move them away) slowly (one time non cancellable decision) or let them stay and have them slowly change to your race (slow emmigration and race mixing I suppose)



Thing is - it has to be done properly the first time. So I'd prefer it if the feature was held off until the current big things are done. It's not a simple fix

Took me 1 and 1/2 hours to write the damn thing..... twice. I wasn't really alive anymore when i finished. And i wish i had made more notes before i wrote it down. Or ctrl-c'ed it. Stupid me.

I'm still not fully awake, but i'll try to go through your post as best as possible. I obviously made a few naming/clarification mistakes...

n18991c wrote:


Step 1: Invade



Step 2: Select option

- EXTERMINATE/ELIMINATE (leading to orbital bombardment)

- SUBJUGATE/ENSLAVE

- GRANT FREEDOM/SYMBIOSIS

Actually it should have been Step 1: Invade or Step 1: Bombard. Sry, for not making that clear.

n18991c wrote:


Step 3: Aftermath

Deal with the advantages and disadvantages of the selection made, i.e. appease rioters or clamp down on insurgencies in a system which you've subjugated, or build cultural exchange centres and joint science centres etc should you have decided to grant the alien populations their freedom.

Here i am undecided.... although i like the generell idea of building stuff (activly doing something towards the goal), i went for simplification/automation to not divert more attention from the "big picture". It's a bit like the big dicussions about revamping combat, a bit is nice and good, too much and it becomes a game in itself. Finding the middle ground that allows for more "playstyle" or "roleplaying" choices without damaging the overall gameplay is the challenge here.



The Happiness Cap i introduced is like a measurement how much of the actual production is available... in the case of GRANT FREEDOM/SYMBIOSIS, most of the production in the first few turns goes towards reestablishing civilian life and reeducation/propaganda/cultural exchange. Also it kinda represents that the Alien Pop is reluctant to work hard until they trust you, after all they might have been told you eat them alive for years. And since you're not pushing them hard, not much gets done.

I added the "storys" to give a bit of feel what you are doing, sometimes i'm better with storys then mechanics and i felt it might help getting my point across.



@bombardment: When i said "infrastructure" i ment any improvements built... starting with civilian only moving to military after all civilian stuff is destroyed. Some improvements are buildings, some have a wider description, that might not be easy to target. Still i think this is the simpelest way to go. If you destroy all major cities, settlements and military bases i'm pretty sure the improvements will get hurt as well... and the civilians that are trained to operate them.



Anyway, about step 4: change choice i will have to think about that a bit. I had something similar in mind but decided to not include it because of the simplification thing.



As always, my sincerest thanks for actually reading that wall of text.

Dr_Mox wrote:
Holy Transmorphagant! oO

My eyes!!!

Err let me get back to you on this.... plenty of cool stuff in there I see from what everyone has thrown into the ring.

I hear you Dr_Mox!

Holy Transmorphagant! oO

My eyes!!!



Err let me get back to you on this.... plenty of cool stuff in there I see from what everyone has thrown into the ring.

Given how grumpy your own empire gets as you expand, I wouldnt mind some of the above for my own colonies as part of Empire Management.



I think maybe we need to simplify the system further, yet make it entertaining enough otherwise its a failed mechanic. Invading a system as it stands in Beta is confussing alot of people searching for the "Invasion Ring" etc



Given also how foul your CivPoP gets once you gain another colony through conquest I believe there will be alot of calls for an Exterminate post invasion option, putting the 4th "X" in 4X firmly into this game.

So, back to zero.... post got lost cause of my stupidity.



Before you read, pls take note of a few things: This is a huge Wall of Text, in-game it would be waaaaaay smaller. Inspiration of this comes mainly from n18991c, Dr Mox and Caveman. I don't consider it a work of my own, but rather as a team effort to make the game more "lively" and help to actually establish a "bond" with your chosen race. If you want to be reallllly bad, you can do so. If you wanna play nice, you can do so to. Also know, that everything, words, numbers and entire concepts are subject to change.... this is still a work in progress, although i'm getting the feel we are coming to an end. Anyway, it's past 2am here, i'll just let you read and decide for yourself. Also, english isn't my first language.

No tl;dr, i need sleep.







Lets start really early: You arrive with your Fleet and destroy any opposing Fleets in the System. Now you have to decide:



1. Invade: Sent Troops to the ground to take control of any important military and civilian targets. No real change here, although i still wonder how you can invade a system without civilian casualities or damaging any infrastructure. But lets assume it stays that way.



2. Bombard: This will order your Fleet to use Weapons of Mass Destruction against all major cities and military installations. This will likely lead to

a) A high chance of destroying infrastructure every turn.

b) A heavy drop in population every turn.

c) Diplomatic Penalities with every Faction that calls themselves "civilized" for every turn the bombardment goes on, diminishing slowly after finished.

d) It will likely be a lot faster then invasion (double speed?)

Note that you are not bound by this decision, so you can bombard a system a few turns and then invade whats left of it. Or wipe it out completly, making it neutral again (while retaining any of the infrastructure that might have survived). Since one of the options we talked about is Extermination, it seemed necessary to include Bombardment as well.





Upon completion of the Invasion two things happen:

a) 1 Population of the native inhabitants will be changed to one of your Empire. These are your ground troops, their families and adminstrative personnel. The Pop they replace is either dead, has fled the System or is shipped out into slavery, it doesnt really matter.

b) You get a little pop-up window asking you what to do with the natives. It will give you three options: Eliminate, Enslave, Symbiosis. You get a few lines of text when you click on each option, followed by a breakup of the advantages and disadvantages every option has.

It could read a bit like the following:



1. Eliminate: The "Evil" Option



Some will say that bombarding the system would have been more merciful... but we wouldn't want to damage the precious infrastructure, would we? Your goal is simple and clear: eradicate any resistance and make sure that no aliens remain alive. While the starving slaves work under control of your guards to keep the basic infrastructure running, the first transports arrive. Recruitement programs are running all over your empire, promising a new life and very good real-estate prices.

Sure, there still are uprisings, sabotage and occassional guerilla attacks, not to mention the PR desaster when a few fugitives managed to get away.... but nothing you can't handle. Bombarding a few Workcamps with orbital weapons quelled any unrest... for now.

And you envision a bright future for this new colony, once the former inhabitants are taken care of.



-10% Alien Pop per turn, replaced by 1 pop of your Empire (capped at the originial population at the start of the process. so killing a 1 pop system will give you exactly 1 pop of your population)

System Happiness capped at 10% until alien population is removed

High Chance of Rebellions until alien pop is eradicated. Fleets in orbit will reduce that chance, enemy fleets that invade will rise it

Diplomacy Penality with most races (a bit lower then bombardment)

Certain races might get a bonus to this (Cravers, Sower, Horatio)

Certain Techs might speed up the process



2. Enslave The "Neutral" Option



Your last transports are landing, bringing in the adminstrative staff... and you eagerly get to work. And you will make sure that the natives do the same... production quotas want to be met. Using some pure Force, some "Carrot and Stick" and some reeducation, you make the inhabitants understand that they have nothing to fear... unless they are lazy. And most of them understand that there are worse fates in this harsh Galaxy.

Still, there is a resistance out there. They might not have a lot of equipment, but they make up for it with the sheer will to fight for their freedom. You will need to closely monitor their activities, otherwise you might have a full blown rebellion on your hands.

Anyway you are making good progress and the natives will give in at some point, your advisors assure you. And you promise to the working masses that they might even become citiziens some day. Second class, of course.



System Happiness instantly returns to pre-invasion levels, but is capped at 40% for 25 turns

Medium chance for Rebellions for 25 turns (slowly decreasing until turn 25). Fleets in orbit will reduce that chance, enemy fleets that invade will rise it

Certain races might get a bonus to this (United Empire, Hissho, Sower)

Certain Techs might speed up the process or allow a higher cap



3. Symbiosis The "Good" Option



Your first action as new ruler of this system was to contact any higher-ranking officials that haven't fled the Capital. Your first promise to them was that the wounded will be treated, the sick and homeless will be taken into care. First priority is to get the civilian infrastructure back-up and running you told them. Most of them didn't believe you, but some were eager to hear about your rebuilding plans. After working the night through, the first reports come in. Some of the officials you talked with mobilized what remains of their people and are handing out supplies givin to them by your armed forces.The first step to a brighter future has been made.

But before that can take place you have to attend to the present. Your military forces only control a few key locations, keeping the presence low and working hard to aid the civilian populations. Of course, this comes at a price. The resistance is strong and waits for any signs of weakness. It's up to you to persuade them that the propaganda they have heard for so long just isn't true... and that will take time and effort. But one Day they won't see you as an Enemy anymore, but rather as a Partner.



System Happiness Cap at 20% for 5 turns, rising by 2,5% per turn after that

Medium chance of Rebellions for the first 10 turns, low for the next 10 turns. Fleets in orbit will reduce that chance, enemy fleets that invade will rise it

Will give a small relationship bonus after 10 turns with most races

Certain races might get a bonus to this (Pilgrims, Sophons, Amoeba)

Certain Techs might speed up the process or allow a higher cap







Well, thats it. a bit more complex than i was going for, but still somewhat understandable without a master degree in anything.

any comments, constructive crititsism, ideas, suggestions, whatever are welcome.

n18991c wrote:




- REPATRIATE - No options.



What do you guys think? I think this 4-choice system is straightforward enough... but please pitch in and let me hear your thoughts!

I've decided to stick with 3 options cause i just don't see how you can move a entire systems population out. It would require massive efforts to get the civilians into their empire... and the ships they take won't return. I feel that the Eliminate option really stretches it too.... but i don't see any way to balance the gain/loss ratio without that. Hopefully all 3 presented options will make sense..... everyone has to be useful and thus balanced and still retain the feeling of doing something different.

With Eliminate you have a fast option (10 turns), for the exchange of some pop loss and a high risk of rebellions (i don't think rebellions should take back the system in a instant, only damage infrastructure or maybe cost a bit of population). Slavery is kind of the middle ground, allowing for the system to be instantly useful again.... for the price of a lower happiness cap and thus somewhat decreased growth and production. Symbiosis will lead to low production within the first few turns, gradually becoming better then the slavery option. anyway, good night, seeya tomorrow.



edit: also these 3 provide a (somewhat) good, evil and neutral option, keeping it simple. also decided to go without further improvements, making that more of a question what techs you have at your disposal. i also feel that some races might have certain small bonuses towards certain options. nothing to big, to keep all options open, just something that shows how they handle stuff usally.

I'm not saying it's a perfect system, but simply that it's not without merit. I definitely agree there's (considerable) room for improvement.



But I enjoy the strategic layer it adds to movement and the need for spatial-awareness (no pun intended; I speak of space in terms of "area"). Granted, I'd rather it be a more fleshed-out and logical system, but I'd still rather what we have presently to taking it away entirely.

@ElegantCaveman

@TheManInRoomFive



Space is BIG! The analogy is logical so we suspend disbelief. I get what your saying on this however I've seeing faction shipping move in my coloured influence sphere (bugged?) and we are not at war only CW. I have also trapped fleets by enveloping them and they are all CW to me. I have seen cultural lines suddenly cut off empires by the simple push of a few milimetres of control. Maybe folks are going to get too annoyed with the way things are like this or way too confused and frustrated. Its an interesting concept, yes its got interesting strategies but it can be quite a bugbear. Maybe a sharper ui and user friendly set of tools might help ease potential nightmares in the future. Anyways we digress, back to Invasion! hehe

"I first expected that when I was playing, seeing cultural influence have a play on turning over systems to your control under excessive cultural pressure rather than a mysterious technology that block space travel as it expands out, thats pretty impressive tech!"

It has nothing to do with tech, but is an equivalent to our days flight space. Meaning that no air craft can enter another nations air space, with out permission. And that flying into a another nations air space carrying weapons is in effect a declaration of war. That's the reason you cant enter other players areas, remember that you are at a cold war state with them.

They're long, but they don't always say much...



For the time being, I'm trying to stay away from specifics, as it would be too easy for me to get stuck in any one thing, and there's so much to do.



Every time I come to the forums, I feel like I'm falling behind and losing sight of all that's happening. I get glimpses of all sorts of interesting things everywhere, and I feel lost.



I do try to chime in when something comes to mind, though. But for example, in this thread, thinking about the detailed specifics of how each race would behave under given circumstances is a bit too much for me right now.



Still, I'm here to offer my support!

Calico wrote:
tyvm much guys, our shared thoughts might lead to a substanial concept. And yes, above all the concpt needs to be simple to understand, so less options might prove better gameplay wise. Cause we all want the game to be deep, but not to complex. In the light of your last posts i've tried to give this my own spin, heavily burrowing from your ideas. i'll write it all down and edit this post (or make a new one) when i'm finished. shouldn't take more then a hour.

Looking forward to reading your thoughts on this whole thing, Calico!



@Dr_Mox and @ElegantCaveman: loving your input guys, but much to think about there so I'll take my time carefully studying it - especially your long posts, Caveman!

AtoningUnifex wrote:
One thing that i saw earlier that i especially liked was the idea of a cultural takeover of a planet (as seen in GalCiv2). Currently i don't see much point to the influence ranges of the planets otherwise.

Dr_Mox wrote:
Yep thats a good point AtoningUnifex, I first expected that when I was playing, seeing cultural influence have a play on turning over systems to your control under excessive cultural pressure rather than a mysterious technology that block space travel as it expands out, thats pretty impressive tech!

I'm not saying it shouldn't do more (I think it should), but I find the way influence works now already to be a good thing. The way it can block travel adds an interesting element of strategy.



Quite a few times, I wanted to colonize a system, but got there too late because a nearby faction's influence overlapped it.



And when that happens to a system you already own, you best grow that population and get your own influence up, otherwise you can't visit your own system anymore!



As for the logic of it… it's a bit stretched, I admit, but I still do see some merit to it. Maybe not so much in terms of locking you out of your own systems (that's a bit extreme), but definitely when it comes to limiting your access to places you don't own.



Think of influence as an area that's been sown with communications relay satellites, so they have "eyes and ears" there.



A real-world semi-equivalent would be national airspace:



There's nothing in the air but birds and clouds, but if one country flies planes over another country, they're kind of intruding.



It's not so much that they physically -can't- do so, but more that they choose not to, for diplomatic reasons (or if they do, they get permission first).



By the same token, I see the movement-limiting aspect of influence as being one faction being respectful of another faction's territory. They could, physically, go through it, but they simply choose not to. This is why, when war is declared, you can suddenly, magically, go wherever you want within your new enemy's influence radius, because you're at war and the time for being polite is over. It's not as if you've suddenly discovered magical tech that allows you to penetrate the impassable physical force field.



"Open Borders" is basically getting permission to go through that watched territory. Small colonies that don't have influence yet simply haven't yet deployed the needed interstellar communications infrastructure to monitor their territory, thus you can go through it all you want without being noticed.



Now this gives me ideas about how I'd like to have the choice to go through the territory of someone I'm not at war with, which would cause a relationship hit… but this isn't the thread for that.

Hollow wrote:
I think there should be some kind of negativity when you conquer a system, maybe both in happiness (they did just have their homes bombed) and also in FIDS output (while they rebuild their homes instead of working in the factories and labs)

That's basically how it works right now: when you conquer a system, you get an approval penalty there for a certain amount of time. Approval directly influences FIDS production, so you're getting a FIDS production penalty because of the low approval caused by being an invader.

n18991c wrote:
I think that the fate of the alien populations in conquered systems should rest solely in the player's hands and there should be no automated response to what happens to alien populations in one's systems based on the nature of the species. This is particularly important when considering that the decision of what to do with the new subjects helps define what the player's faction is like and where it's heading.

I completely agree. Part of what's so promising about this whole idea, imho, is how it allows us to shape our game based on choices we make. Automation would take away a lot of that value.



By allowing the player to make choices instead of forcing a pre-determined outcome, those choices have a lasting impact on their game. You could play two games almost identically, but if you were to take a vastly different approach between them about how you deal with conquered systems, the entire experience could change considerably.



As for the four options, I like it. But I'm not in a headspace conducive to details and specifics at this point, so for the time being, I'll refrain from further comment.

n18991c wrote:
-snip-

Dr_Mox wrote:
-snip-

tyvm much guys, our shared thoughts might lead to a substanial concept. And yes, above all the concpt needs to be simple to understand, so less options might prove better gameplay wise. Cause we all want the game to be deep, but not to complex.



In the light of your last posts i've tried to give this my own spin, heavily burrowing from your ideas. i'll write it all down and edit this post (or make a new one) when i'm finished. shouldn't take more then a hour.

Yes n18991c that is similar to a pop-up options menu you get upon conquering a city in games like the Total War series:

Occupy

Loot

Exterminate

with their attendant effects respectively.



I guess we have two discussions in this thread that have evolved, one discussing AI Invasion choices linked to the background of the game and the other discussing our choices/wishes reflected in the game when we complete a successful invasion.



So my previous table may instead be an example for the AI to be following whereas what your suggesting is a simple choice based system with its consequencies. e.g. see how long it will take to occupy a Craver world vs just bug bombing it to oblivion and back and leaving the rest to your new clean up colonial crews.