Space combat and ground combat? Oh hell yea!

Do we know what can a player do before the battle starts? Do we lay a battle plan and later see it executed in real time? How can a player influence the battle after it has already started - are there some fleet actions possible, "special abilities" to be triggered...?

Even though I love Frozen Synapse (and no, rockets aren't so über. They require some skill to be put to good use) it would take too much time to get the result of your battle. In the end game you could have a dozen of space battle to play. If a single battle takes 1 minute, it's 12 minutes just for battles. And what about economic thinking ? Trade ? Exploration ? etc.

From what I understood, I imagined combat in Endless space to be like this.

The combat is more passive than it is controlled by the player. You decide to attack an enemy, and a battle occurs (okay, obviously). Battle occurs in three phases: Long range, medium range, and short range. While you have no control over the battle, you get to decide on various bonuses to use during each phase (whether special weapons or special tactics, or what-not). That's about the only control you have over combat. After each phase, you're given the opportunity to change whatever tactics or bonuses you wanted for whatever reason. Perhaps the enemy is using a new weapon, and you need to change a tactic to better counter that weapon. Who can say?



After the battle (or perhaps during the battle?) you get to watch everything in some sort of cinematic mode.



That's my understanding.

maceman wrote:
+1 Frozen Synapse... definitely a unique, cool strat title.



frustrating as hell though when they start chucking around rockets knocking down the wall ur hiding behind

Only thing i hated about that game was the rockets :-/

+1 Frozen Synapse... definitely a unique, cool strat title.



frustrating as hell though when they start chucking around rockets knocking down the wall ur hiding behind

I'm not sure I understand this battle turns completely. From the interview etc. it looked like it was going to be turn based planning, then real time execution where you are able to give some limited commands but can not completely overturn what you have planned between the turns.



So basically it should look like Frozen Synapse (best combat system I have seen - ever) with some possible input in the execution.



Is this at least somewhat close to reality?

I am very courious how this "phases" play out at the end.



I would very much like to see, that one can postpone or even try to keep the whole battle in only one specific phase of the battle. For example it would be stupid to habe a fleet focusing on long range missle attacks and still flying at the enemy with full speed.



To think this further: If there is the ability to choose a strategy like "try to keep at long range", then the engines will be (and realistically so i suppose!) one of the most important devices a spaceship in combat has.



To balance this, the long range weapons need to be relativly easy to counter oder block (efficient point defense for example) and there should be a wide variety of options how one can close up to an enemy who is constantly trying to keep his distance. Here we could imagine fighters (way faster than any big ship) with the ability to directly disable engines, forcing the fleet to stop or abandon one of their vessels or other methods of hindering movement of ships.



I like the idea that engines, range and weapon types matter this much. In most other games i had the impression it was allways the best strategy to get as close as possible and then just fire all weapons at one close ship at a time ...



This approach seems to bring much more strategy in space combat!

I am still unclear on how many units will be flying around at the same time. I admit I like the cinematography style battles if there are lots of things going on and you are somewhat immersed in the 'battlefield'.



It would of course be impossible to follow the ebb and flow of a large scale battle without an accompanying tactical screen and communications array. But the potential is unlimited... as I bring to mind all my favorite epic space battles I do run the risk of becoming a fan boy. this is dangerous as they say expectations lead to disappointments.

SpaceVoyager wrote:
Do we know what can a player do before the battle starts? Do we lay a battle plan and later see it executed in real time? How can a player influence the battle after it has already started - are there some fleet actions possible, "special abilities" to be triggered...?

I was sitting the other day and thought.... quick time events... Would a window of opportunity to change tactics mid battle possibly present themselves like this?

Now if we could have something similar for ground battles I would die happily ...

Oh Yeah! Now that would be nice.

The combat system feels like mixture of GC2(Galactic Civilizations 2) combat viewer with NTJI(Nexus: The Jupiter Incident) graphics and MTG(Magic: The gathering) game mechanics. This mixture of gameplay elements has a lot of potential for fun, diverse and spectacular space battles. Now if we could have something similar for ground battles I would die happily ...

For those of you who haven't read the interview yet here you go.

SS: ES screenshots and the trailer seem to suggest a real-time space combat system. Is that correct? You mention a “special game mode” for combat. You also mention different “battle phases”, “one or more actions (up to three)”, “battle ends (…) at the end of the combat phases”. Can you provide more details about how will space combat work and what is its relation with the simultaneous TBS system?



Romain: In ES we want the player to focus on the grand strategy, rather than require them to be mouse freaks. However, we want the battles to be beautiful and remind us of some of the greatest moments of our favorite sci-fi movies and TV shows. Battles are the pinnacle of our strategy and will show us if the decision we took over the past turns hold up against the choices made by our enemies. Did I do the right research? Are my spaceship designs adapted? Are my fleets optimal? Should I have focused my Admiral hero in other branches of his evolution tree?



So when the battle starts, in some ways a lot has already been decided. Yet the battle is computed in real time, and we are giving the players the possibility to alter the course of the battle, through strong tactical decisions.



There are 4 phases in a battle.



The first phase is the preparation phase. During that phase you prepare a strategy for the battle, by selecting the battle actions you want to play during the next 3 phases.



These phases are Long range, best for missile weapons, the medium range, the domain of Beam weapons, and the Melee range, where kinetic weapons will rule (if your ships survived that long…).



Each of the actions you choose will be able to amplify some of your weapons, increase your defense, repair some of your spaceships, or affect the enemy in a number of ways. You can also use your ‘cards’ to counter a whole family of enemy actions. This might not only render their actions obsolete, but also increase the effectiveness of your own actions as well.



So it is not just about thinking what actions will benefit your ships the most (depending on their designs) but it is also about trying to counter the enemy.



There is also one last thing – though it can make it easier for your opponent to read you – which is that if you don’t change your battle strategy after choosing it during the preparation phase, you will have a damage bonus during the melee phase.

Info from http://www.spacesector.com/blog/2012/03/interview-with-amplitude-studios-on-endless-space/

Ashbery76 wrote:
Indeed in all the 4x games I have played in tactical combat you generally just target one ship at a time by your whole fleet which has always bugged me and has never really been addressed.

Yes, this is a problem. It is of course realistic to a certain extent to destroy one ship at a time and then move to the next one, but it is the implementation of the system that should make sure to break this type of behaviour up. Most games though, fails miserably in its implementation.

Jorgen_CAB wrote:
Another good aspec of this system is that combat can become much more cinematic since you can't really min/max a fleet as much as in full turn based or real time combat. The actual combat can become a real joy to watch if it is done right.

Indeed in all the 4x games I have played in tactical combat you generally just target one ship at a time by your whole fleet which has always bugged me and has never really been addressed.

Another good aspec of this system is that combat can become much more cinematic since you can't really min/max a fleet as much as in full turn based or real time combat. The actual combat can become a real joy to watch if it is done right.

I am in favour of this phased battle system but I think it will become a love or hate part of the game.I remember the split in games like Birth of the Federation which had a similar phased tactical system.



I like the idea because it should generally help the A.I in tactical combat and it gives you that Admiral feel.I hope it has many tactical choices between phases.

Sharidann wrote:
You summed the quandary up in a nutshell.



Reminds me of a wonderful short story from Heinrich Böll: Anecdote to the Decline of the Work Ethic.

Funny enough I found that being a good parent (in my humble opinion) actually frees up some time to play games. My wee one has a very nice established routine where she goes for her bath @ 1900 and is sound asleep by 2000. I bought my wife an Ipad 2 (which she is now currently addicated to) so I usually get a good couple of hours spare time in the evening (up to 4 if i'm feeling brave).



Not too great from a multiplayer standpoint though and this wonderful little routine will go out the window once baby 2 is born in June. I'll work to re-establish a regimented routine ASAP



It does have a massive impact on the number of games I play though.... I tend to get a few that I really like and stick by them occassionally picking up a triple A title for approx a weeks worth of entertainment...



Anyways... about space combat....

No. The space combats are meant to be watched. Only the cards can influence the battle decision. I, too, would like a bit more choices (for instance a way to stay at a range).

ATM the space manual combat is set to auto aswell but it will get manual as in you pre decide what actions you want and than the autofight start (i think)

its set to auto atm so..