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Player ban option needed, unfortunately.

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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 10:01:21 AM
Synaptic_AI wrote:
I'm really not sure where your confusion is coming from but I'll explain it one last time as clearly as I can:




Alright, I'll listen.



Synaptic_AI wrote:
Let there be a pool of 10 players in a region for the purposes of illustration (and really...it's not that far off most of the time, even better actually.)




Let me then remind you about region barriers. And you can go off and instantly ignore it again, as you seem so keen on doing.



Synaptic_AI wrote:
Host A has a game with 8 players.



All 8 slots get filled.



Host A "bans" Player 8.




Alright.



Synaptic_AI wrote:
4/6 remaining players had no issue with the kicked player. Democracy has failed.



Now you have a situation where Player 8 either has to find another game or host his own.




If the other players had an issue, they can start talking to the host - they were there. And if they don't like it, they can leave the lobby, and then the last two players will probably leave because the lobby is empty. And the host has no one to play with. Alright, we're agreeing!



Synaptic_AI wrote:
Additionally, in order to fill his game, he only has 2 players who couldn't get in the first game, and whomever wants to leave Host A's game.



So now you begin an idiotic popularity contest on which host gets that players.




If people leave Host A, the rest will follow because they don't want to wait for the game to refill, and they don't want the host to do something else to ruin their full lobby. Now ex-Player 8 has a nearly-full game.



Synaptic_AI wrote:
You get two factions - those that side with Host A, and those that side with the deposed player made Host B.




Or the people who don't care and will just flock to whoever has the most players in their lobby.



Synaptic_AI wrote:
This feud divides the community forevermore because the ban is permanent, forming a long lasting rift in matchmaking.




Unless, again, you just don't care and go where all the other players are. If Host A is a jerk then people will leave his games, causing more people to leave his games.





Synaptic_AI wrote:
I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it. It's a stupid idea and if you can't see that, well...




Coming from the person who admits to having no experience in lobbies that have decent amounts of players, I don't think you should put too much credit into your own words, and if you can't see that, well...
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 9:29:02 AM
"I say again: How much would a ban feature REALLY change? If players abuse it, no one can play with them anyway. You fail to describe a plausible scenario where a ban feature would ruin the enjoyment for the online community. "



I can give you an example to discribe some situation.



a group of players has rehost a game afte they have decided without me that i am a cheater why im a buguser.If reconnect in game that crashs for me in battle(battlebug, normal in this game a specially with pirates in multiplayer!) and it creates a Ghostfleet over a enemy system.

Now i will clarify this and i cant why they kicked me all time if i rejoin.Thats not fair!The problem iss, at lunchtime are on the EU-Server only 1 or 2 servers open. And normally you found the same peoples ther every day.
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 9:30:54 AM
Fenrakk101 wrote:


Secondly, I wouldn't relate Endless Space to a "successful" multiplayer community. Not that the game is bad, but the player base is not as large as other games you're referring to. Add in the region barriers and you have really small groups of people you can play with in relation to other big games. Therefore, assuming their solutions will apply is a little shortsighted. Not that it's impossible, it's just a little more complicated than you make it sound.




Correct, that's again why ban lists are a horrible idea. You'd be pitting a small group of people into even tinier camps of who they like more.



It's not only absurd, it's f'ing stupid.



+1 votekick

+1 ignore user in lobby

+1 profanity filter

+1 growing a pair.
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 9:32:39 AM
Tredecim wrote:
What about an automatic spam/insult filter? (No censorship, but a little bit of control) - Might prevent the insults (with infraction points maybe?)



Automatic restriction for joining the game XX times in a Minute ?



Would affect both Steam-Players and non-Steam-Players, if implented ingame




This is a possible solution, but the multiplayer in the game isn't very developed. Players don't have any stats or points systems to be tracked. Thus, it would be pretty difficult to implement an infraction feature that solved all of the issues without creating more (people who swear once while legitimately unaware of the censorship could be wrongfully restricted)





DarkSchemo wrote:
"I say again: How much would a ban feature REALLY change? If players abuse it, no one can play with them anyway. You fail to describe a plausible scenario where a ban feature would ruin the enjoyment for the online community. "



I can give you an example to discribe some situation.



a group of players has rehost a game afte they have decided without me that i am a cheater why im a buguser.If reconnect in game that crashs for me in battle(battlebug, normal in this game a specially with pirates in multiplayer!) and it creates a Ghostfleet over a enemy system.

Now i will clarify this and i cant why they kicked me all time if i rejoin.Thats not fair!The problem iss, at lunchtime are on the EU-Server only 1 or 2 servers open. And normally you found the same peoples ther every day.




But if they keep kicking you every time you come back, how can you explain to them otherwise?

Also, there are already suggestions for a lobby-chat while already in a game (so players in a game or hosting a game can talk with people outside their game). If that gets implemented, it could still be possible to talk to the host without joining the game.



Synaptic_AI wrote:
Correct, that's again why ban lists are a horrible idea. You'd be pitting a small group of people into even tinier camps of who they like more.



It's not only absurd, it's f'ing stupid.



+1 votekick

+1 ignore user in lobby

+1 profanity filter




Then petition the devs to drop the region barriers so you have more people to play with.



Also consider that one of the reasons player counts are so low in some areas is because everyone switched to US zones where there are more people to play with; +1 for doing the same?
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 9:33:21 AM
Tredecim wrote:
What about an automatic spam/insult filter? (No censorship, but a little bit of control) - Might prevent the insults (with infraction points maybe?)



Automatic restriction for joining the game XX times in a Minute ?



Would affect both Steam-Players and non-Steam-Players, if implented ingame




That looks like an good idea.vote for this
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 9:36:47 AM
But if they keep kicking you every time you come back, how can you explain to them otherwise?

Also, there are already suggestions for a lobby-chat while already in a game (so players in a game or hosting a game can talk with people outside their game). If that gets implemented, it could still be possible to talk to the host without joining the game.




a main lobby iss overdue.it will fix the most of our problems her, automatic restriction is a good idea better as a bann.
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 9:39:12 AM
Fenrakk101 wrote:
Also consider that one of the reasons player counts are so low in some areas is because everyone switched to US zones where there are more people to play with; +1 for doing the same?




Cycling zones is asinine and troublesome for something like this. What about all the people that didn't get the memo? Right now the only viable solution is friending everyone you see in game and inviting them to games whenever you're starting one. Relying on region hopping is just not an option for me. I've got better things to do than fiddling with steam BS.



And again, it really doesn't solve the problem of diving the community between hosts along the lines of a silly popularity contest.



It's really truly idiotic.
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 9:42:51 AM
Synaptic_AI wrote:
Cycling zones is asinine and troublesome for something like this. What about all the people that didn't get the memo? Right now the only viable solution is friending everyone you see in game and inviting them to games whenever you're starting one. Relying on region hopping is just not an option for me. I've got better things to do than fiddling with steam BS.




Then blame the devs for the region barriers. In my lobbies, there are plenty of games to choose from; a ban feature isn't going to hurt my multiplayer experience the way you say it will. If it will hurt you, then that's your own separate situation. Maybe it shouldn't be separate, but again, that's a dev decision. Or yours. But you choose not to choose.



Synaptic_AI wrote:
And again, it really doesn't solve the problem of diving the community along the lines of a silly popularity contest of hosts based on personal opinion.



It's really truly idiotic.




If a host thinks everyone else is dumb then he will find himself without many people to play with. I fail to see how that degrades into popularity contests; you keep saying it will without bothering to explain how.
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 9:44:57 AM
a difficult topic her...its hard to find a solituon for all i think.But a genereall Lobby will fix the most problems, then you can talk with the people how will join you and can start a private game and the troll cant join it.And nobody lose his voice in the lobby and can justify him self.
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 9:46:22 AM
DarkSchemo wrote:
a difficult topic her...its hard to find a solituon for all i think.But a genereall Lobby will fix the most problems, then you can talk with the people how will join you and can start a private game and the troll cant join it.And nobody lose his voice in the lobby and can justify him self.




It would also be good if you can switch to different region lobbies through there - as in, you can just click your way into a US lobby without needing to mess with Steam.
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 9:50:49 AM
We need imiditaly a lobby, i think thats what us all united.It fix the most of our problems her,it sort nobody out, you can create private groups and it give all the same rights.And you can see how many peoples are online in the lobby, an important information in this game.
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 9:53:15 AM
DarkSchemo wrote:
We need imiditaly a lobby, i think thats what us all united.It fix the most of our problems her, sort nobody out and it give all the same rights.And you can see how many peoples are online in the lobby, an important information in this game.




Yes, that would definitely solve a lot of issues for a lot of people. And once we all have access to each other, the devs can think about implementing stats systems to judge a player's experience (and reputation).



Although I don't think any multiplayer updates are coming out in the immediate future; even a ban feature if they chose to do so. I wouldn't start worrying too much about it until it showed up on G2G votes.
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 9:55:05 AM
Fenrakk101 wrote:
If a host thinks everyone else is dumb then he will find himself without many people to play with. I fail to see how that degrades into popularity contests; you keep saying it will without bothering to explain how.




I'm really not sure where your confusion is coming from but I'll explain it one last time as clearly as I can:



Let there be a pool of 10 players in a region for the purposes of illustration (and really...it's not that far off most of the time, even better actually.)



Host A has a game with 8 players.



All 8 slots get filled.



Host A "bans" Player 8.



4/6 remaining players had no issue with the kicked player. Democracy has failed.



Now you have a situation where Player 8 either has to find another game or host his own.



Additionally, in order to fill his game, he only has 2 players who couldn't get in the first game, and whomever wants to leave Host A's game. Since the kicked player opened up a slot, one of the waiting players joins the bigger game obviously, leaving only 1 player and the new host.



So now you begin an idiotic popularity contest on which host gets those players, or the banned player just gives up and doesn't play anymore.



You get two factions - those that side with Host A, and those that side with the deposed player made Host B.



This feud divides the community forevermore because the ban is permanent, forming a long lasting rift in matchmaking.



Either the players are forced to take sides, or one despotic host ruins the game for someone because they can never play with the rest of the 9 players in the region.



I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it. It's a stupid idea and if you can't see that, well...
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 9:27:19 AM
DarkSchemo wrote:
but if you kick someone from a server you must argument this to the other players on the server.I you can easily bann an player you sort it easily out and take the other players of ther own opinion.Sry for my english...it will be not the best.




You don't need to apologize; I know this game has fans in many different countries, so I won't nitpick people just because English isn't their best language.

That said, I honestly don't really know what you're saying. Are you trying to say that if you kick a player you need to explain your reasons, but if a player is banned you don't? If so, look back on my previous posts; I already discussed how you can tell other people (friends) that you're banned and they can go question the host for you. And if he bans them too, then why are you so eager to join that game? Obviously the host is a jerk.



Synaptic_AI wrote:
Meh, sorry man, you've obviously got a bone to pick with someone or a personal vendetta. I'm just talking about how successful multiplayer communities handle this. The only thing that interests me is fair justification and community involvement. I'm really sorry if someone hurt you right in your feels and didn't apologize kindly.



May I offer you a juice box and an oreo?




On a personal note, I try to take up radical arguments against people who I feel are being radical themselves. You can look at my posts before and after your arrival; you more or less challenged me and I accepted it.

Secondly, I wouldn't relate Endless Space to a "successful" multiplayer community. Not that the game is bad, but the player base is not as large as other games you're referring to. Add in the region barriers and you have really small groups of people you can play with in relation to other big games. Therefore, assuming their solutions will apply is a little shortsighted. Not that it's impossible, it's just a little more complicated than you make it sound.
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 10:06:11 AM
Holy jesus you're obtuse.



You said in your own post that



A. players will just go wherever there are the most players



but that somehow magically



B. players will have a heightened sense of justice about their host's behavior.



No kiddo, they are nearly mutually exclusive concepts, and really A. will be the winner which results in the situation of a despotic host simply ruining the game for people who they don't like.



Again, sorry to hear about your sore feels.
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 10:08:03 AM
Fenrakk101 wrote:
Coming from the person who admits to having no experience in lobbies that have decent amounts of players, I don't think you should put too much credit into your own words, and if you can't see that, well...




Lol, I never said this, troll.



I suggested the exact opposite.



Go eat some algae or whatever it is that grows under there.



Bye.
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 10:10:22 AM
Synaptic_AI wrote:
Holy jesus you're obtuse.



You said in your own post that



A. players will just go wherever there are the most players



but that somehow magically



B. players will have a heightened sense of justice about their host's behavior.



No kiddo, they are nearly mutually exclusive concepts, and really A. will be the winner which results in the situation of a despotic host simply ruining the game for people who they don't like.



Again, sorry to hear about your sore feels.




I don't know what thought process you used to determine that host A was the winner. People will flock to where other players are, but if they feel that their host is banning people who haven't done anything, then they are going to feel like it could happen again and they'd be waiting even longer. So Host A may as well have zero players in his lobby, because anyone could be the next banned victim. You said 4/6 people would have no problem with Player 8; all it takes is for one of them to leave. Then another will leave. Then another, then the fourth. Now it's Host A and two people, and those two people aren't going to wait for that lobby to fill again. So they leave.



And I'll remind you again that the player count varies by region. So realistically, if they were in a region with 50 players online, they could all easily find new games to join. And then everyone's happy and the host's abuse got him to being all alone.



Synaptic_AI wrote:
Lol, I never said this, troll.



I suggested the exact opposite.




"Ten players" is not the average amount of people I can find. And you said that ten is above average for you. So you admitted to having no experience around larger lobbies.
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 10:17:05 AM
be cool guys.Its not so easy like you think fenrakk, trust me.

Nobody follow you if they sit in a full server...
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 10:21:11 AM
DarkSchemo wrote:
be cool guys.Its not so easy like you think fenrakk, trust me.

Nobody follow you if they sit in a full server...




It's not easy like he thinks, either. And like I said, you guys haven't played in lobbies with as many players as I have. Finding a game isn't as fast as finding a match in Halo but you won't be waiting for hours on end.
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12 years ago
Aug 25, 2012, 10:25:59 AM
Fenrakk101 wrote:
"Ten players" is not the average amount of people I can find. And you said that ten is above average for you. So you admitted to having no experience around larger lobbies.




It's come to my attention you must have a reading comprehension problem. This would explain your inability to fathom what a hilariously stupid idea ban lists are.



"Let there be a pool of 10 players in a region for the purposes of illustration"



This is what's called a "hypothetical situation."



"(and really...it's not that far off most of the time, even better actually.)"



Is me explaining what I generally see in my zone at the times that I play. I'm not sure what zones YOUR playing in, but there is NEVER more than 1 or 2 "NEW GAME" in my zone at any one time, or more than 10 or so players actively waiting for a game.



But this is not the issue here, and it's due to your reading comprehension problem that we're at this point. I said that "successful multiplayer games" institute votekick functionality, and some of them I've played have ignore and the AAA titles all have an option profanity filter.



So yes, I've played MANY titles with many many thousands of players and I can speak quite authoritatively that those games do quite well with what they've implemented.



It really is pathetic that you want to form little cliques of public game pimps. To each their own. Everyone needs to feel important somehow, I suppose.



DarkSchemo wrote:
be cool guys.Its not so easy like you think fenrakk, trust me.

Nobody follow you if they sit in a full server...




+1
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