For Amoebas weapons, I'm not sure that non-lethal is a good thing.



Okay, I think it's time for me to "unleash" my story of Amoebas I've been working on.

You will all agree that Amoebas are a kind of "?" race. At the beginning, this race was impossible to explain. That's why I decided to work on their story (for this mod - but for me as well), and explain everythink logically.

I'll explain my thoughts further in the temple of flourishing minds (where I'll put an extended version of the story).



For me Amoebas beginnings are kind of the same as on Earth : life starts in oceans (on an Oceanic Planet it's kind of normal). Organisms appear with Amibes amongst them. Other animals' body evolve but amibes don't (why ? as on Earth no need to. The only difference is that they are here bigger : 20/30 cm long). In order to survive, they develop proto-organs that produce toxins and flashy colours (think of the colourfull frogs).

That survival technique will soon become a hunting technique and they kind of eat (phagocytosis) everything. Cause they are really simple organisms (an undifferenciated cell), they can evolve fast and toxins change often. They are now rulers of their oceans. Without predators, they are growing bigger (1-2 meters - I think of them as massives). But also the population of Amibes is growing too fast. At some point, they have to eat other Amibes to survive and they start hunting each others, developping techniques and toxins against other Amibes.

This first "War" of the Amibes has a massive impact : new predators appears during this and, in order to survive again, Amibes have to evolve. They start regrouping into groups, or communities of Amibes. They recognise the other members of these with the production on complex enzymes (a passport - as ants do). They start developping awareness of themselves (Amibes against other species). But they also soon discover that they can communicate with each others due to enzymes production (it's really simple messages but it's communication). As well this is also a way of thinking (as neurons making a brain, huge amount of Amibes make an exo-brain). With this appears "philosophical" thoughts and different waies of life.

Some of the amibes start to think that what happened (the "War of the Amibes") was their fault and the only way not to do this again is to develop a symbiotic way of living. They give some of their "new borned" to other species, after a while they let themselves be eaten, ... (we can also imagine that they start trying to speak with other species, breeding as well, ...). We can give to them the name of Amoebas.

An other part of the race think differently. They know they can't develop that much, but they don't think of any fault. In fact, they think that they need to control environment. They need to eat and they need to expand to have more space. We can give them the name of Entamoeba Histolytica (searsh for this on google you'll understand - but if you have a better name give it to me).

For the moment I don't have in mind a "neutral" way of thinking...



So now we have the Amoeba native planet. The discovery of the other planets and of the other systems come from a "stupid" thing. As some of them as developped chloroplasts, they can actually "feel" the sun. In order to get more energy they go the nearest possible (the sea level). But they need more. They develop their heat detector as a point that they can feel light and heat coming from other points : other planets and stars.



I think I did the story but you'll need more than that to be convinced.



How do they remember ? We can imagine that, because they have a 27 billions sequence DNA (ten times the human one), they have memories in part of this. The DNA would give to the cell the order of building the complex enzymas construction which would be "understood" by the groupe as a memory. Then, because thei reproduction is by mitosis, they make cells exactly similar. So thinks one remember is given to all the descendants and the group still "remembers" of everything.



How do they build ? They do not, they don't need to and they have no hands.



How do they build ships ? On Earth some amibes can produce "shells" (by carbon making). We can imagine that their planet is full of ressources of all kind, so they can produce pretty much everything based on carbon. Imagine some Amibes decide to be closer to the sun (in order to have more heat). They can "build" helium balloons (after huge amounts of tests). They'll need shells to contain water in order to live in the air. Thei body will grow even bigger to have more chloroplasts and produce more.

So huge cells with shell = ships.



Okay it's difficult to imagine that they actually go into space but after trying to live in deep ocean they can survive to high pressures.



There is still a communication problem, but I'm working on it.

In fact I've done a one way communication : producing enzymes and giving them to drink in water to other species (like they did on their planet)



Any question ?



EDIT :

Yep I forgot : for me weapons are produced as shells by some "organs" (so they don't have beans, kinetics or missile as we know it, but things that do the same).

And improvments, techs and everything should be based, not as we think for other races, on body development or group development.



For example : researsh bonuses could come from discovering of some new enzymas.



Now, I need to find names.

Following tables are mostly to remind me how weapons goes:



Common Weapons

Weapon name	Cost	Size	Average Damage	Dmg/cost
small weapon 1	11	10	7,5	0.68
small weapon 2	15	10	10,5	0.70
small weapon 3	23	10	16,5	0.72
small weapon 4	30	10	22,5	0.75
medium weapon 1	26	20	17,5	0.68
medium weapon 2	35	20	24,5	0.70
medium weapon 3	44	20	31,5	0.72
medium weapon 4	51	20	38,5	0.75
Large weapon 1	51	40	35	0.68
Large weapon 2	70	40	49	0.70
Large weapon 3	87	40	63	0.72
Large weapon 4	102	40	77	0.75
Huge Weapon 1	77	80	52,5	0.68
Huge Weapon 2	105	80	73,5	0.70
Huge Weapon 3	131	80	94,5	0.72
Huge Weapon 4	154	80	115,5	0.75

Race weapons has 0.30 better damage / cost ratio, cost being same.

This is balanced by giving common weapons 25% lower tech cost.

Hupailija, is that chart of 4 small/4 med/4 large/4 huge per weapon class (beam/kinetic/missile), per race, or both? Will races have varying stats or just a constant +0.3?

thashepherd wrote:
Hupailija, is that chart of 4 small/4 med/4 large/4 huge per weapon class (beam/kinetic/missile), per race, or both? Will races have varying stats or just a constant +0.3?

There is 2 race specific weapons and 2 common weapons per race. As long as these weapons follow these rules they can be anything.



Due to balancing features I am going to keep it +0.3 from that table, that doesn't count out different mechanism though... one just needs to count bit more.

As in all following weapons will belong to these rules:

Weapon which fires 10000 bullets

Weapon which fires one bullet per 10 turns

Weapon which fires single bullet every turn

one just needs to change damage and cost accordingly.



I am trying to keep amount of weapons per race as little as possible... even now it means that I need to create 8*4*4*2 different weapons (and 4*3*3 common weapons) each new weapon type for race would rise that amount by 4*4*8 and each new weapon by 4*8.



I will release racekit later which lets others to make their own weapons, ships, defensive modules, support modules and engines easily for this mod. Before that I though need to do load of work





Race weapons will different from each other as much as my imagination just allows.

Reason why I create this kind of system is mostly because of ships.

And of course because right now it's better to stuff loads of small weapons (most cost efficient ones) or build loads of small ships... I want to break these both and change scale to bigger weapons.

Fighters will be almost free ships but they won't do any damage to bigger ships.





Actually there is 3 rules:

Rule 1: All races must be balanced, mechanism can vary, costs can vary but all must be balanced.

Rule 2: Weight correlates things efficiency (and weapons has always 4 different types)

Rule 3: Cost correlates efficiency



Everything else is irrelevant, I really don't care about damage, cost or mechanism if those 3 rules are fulfilled.

Still not quite tracking. Are you talking about this?



Race A

Small special weapon 1

Small special weapon 2

Small common weapon 1

Small common weapon 2



Medium special weapon 1

Medium special weapon 2

Medium common weapon 1

Medium common weapon 2



Large special weapon 1

Large special weapon 2

Large common weapon 1

Large common weapon 2



Huge special weapon 1

Huge special weapon 2

Huge common weapon 1

Huge common weapon 2



Or do you mean that each race has "special" weapons for 2 types, like kinetic and missile, and uses generic weapons for the other two?



I understand that adding a new weapon to a specific race would add 4xsize * 8xtech levels, but I don't get the source of the rest of your math just yet.

Race A







Type A: Small special weapon 1

Type A: Small special weapon 2

Type A: Small special weapon 3

Type A: Small special weapon 4



Type B: Small special weapon 1

Type B: Small special weapon 2

Type B: Small special weapon 3

Type B: Small special weapon 4



Type A: Small common weapon 1

Type A: Small common weapon 2

Type A: Small common weapon 3

Type A: Small common weapon 4



Type B: Small common weapon 1

Type B: Small common weapon 2

Type B: Small common weapon 3

Type B: Small common weapon 4







Type A: Medium special weapon 1

Type A: Medium special weapon 2

Type A: Medium special weapon 3

Type A: Medium special weapon 4



Type B: Medium special weapon 1

Type B: Medium special weapon 2

Type B: Medium special weapon 3

Type B: Medium special weapon 4



Type A: Medium common weapon 1

Type A: Medium common weapon 2

Type A: Medium common weapon 3

Type A: Medium common weapon 4



Type B: Medium common weapon 1

Type B: Medium common weapon 2

Type B: Medium common weapon 3

Type B: Medium common weapon 4







Type A: Large special weapon 1

Type A: Large special weapon 2

Type A: Large special weapon 3

Type A: Large special weapon 4



Type B: Large special weapon 1

Type B: Large special weapon 2

Type B: Large special weapon 3

Type B: Large special weapon 4



Type A: Large common weapon 1

Type A: Large common weapon 2

Type A: Large common weapon 3

Type A: Large common weapon 4



Type B: Large common weapon 1

Type B: Large common weapon 2

Type B: Large common weapon 3

Type B: Large common weapon 4







Type A: Huge special weapon 1

Type A: Huge special weapon 2

Type A: Huge special weapon 3

Type A: Huge special weapon 4



Type B: Huge special weapon 1

Type B: Huge special weapon 2

Type B: Huge special weapon 3

Type B: Huge special weapon 4



Type A: Huge common weapon 1

Type A: Huge common weapon 2

Type A: Huge common weapon 3

Type A: Huge common weapon 4



Type B: Huge common weapon 1

Type B: Huge common weapon 2

Type B: Huge common weapon 3

Type B: Huge common weapon 4





hope that it makes even bit sense

Think I'm scooping what you're pooping now.

I finally did decided to upgrade my mediafire account to pro... won't anymore have to watch advertises (and hey, if I have been their freeloader now couple months I think that they do deserve some money for that)



Next step: Need to find some good web server provider which also offers forums.

And after that: Need to find someone who has time to make decent look webpages.











oh btw if you have mods and are looking space to share those I can upload to my mediafire account if you find someway to send to me.

Hupa, do you have a GitHub account or any suggestions on how to painlessly merge changes? I REALLY don't want to go through your and my XML files line by line



EDIT: Saw the tech tree and the way you did up the Swarm's weapons. Know exactly what your plan is - I love it. Will do the Sowers now.



EDIT 2: You were not lying, that is a crap ton of weapons.



EDIT 3: Damn 'Too Many Heap Sections' when loading Sowers, but not Swarm. Apparently the force is stronger with Hupa.



EDIT 4: Solved that (misspelled a weapon module name) - but the modules aren't showing up in the tech tree. The techs are.

What are we thinking about giving the sowers a really early game ability to terraform?



It is their job, and could help promote a sort of small empire game.





Also can we add victory conditions?

I can definitely start them off with some sort of terraforming capability - might be tough to balance that with their ability to colonize any planet. I'll put something in in the next day or so just to see how that works.



Changing victory conditions is definitely possible to a certain extent. Depends how far you want to stretch it. Any ideas?



Hupa, do you have any idea how to get the weapon module icons to show up underneath the technologies in the tech tree?

I was thinking about a condition for an empire to own 75% of the galaxy's T1 planets as long as at least 50% of the galaxy's planets have been terraformed to a T1 planet.



With the idea of being such a magnificent empire that trying to oppose you would only prolong the inevitable with such a base to compete from.





As towards balancing, would the Sowers require some kind of malus to expansion or going from system to system? Thus keeping them confined to a corner of the galaxy, but as a corner they can easily defend.

thashepherd wrote:
Hupa, do you have any idea how to get the weapon module icons to show up underneath the technologies in the tech tree?

Add the module as an unlockable under the tech. So far, you have to recycle an existing icon.

I'm having issues getting the technologies themselves to show up, now. I wish the game failed more predictably - sometimes it'll crash, sometimes the technologies just won't show up, and never does it tell me where I jacked up the XML.



I keep beer handy while coding for the same reason I keep beer handy when I work on my car.

Please note my modding protip: whenever you load a mod (regardless of whether the game hangs) look into (steam dir)\Endless Space\EndlessSpace_data\output_log.txt. There is almost always an exact xml syntax error here, complete with line number.

First of all, I'm really happy to see Davea in my threads... but please, do remember that this is not a place to tell basic things. I am being asked questions relating to my mods which I need to solve, by giving shortterm solutions to problems may make my problem harder.

EDIT 4: Solved that (misspelled a weapon module name) - but the modules aren't showing up in the tech tree. The techs are.

Right now there isn't more than Sowers section in techtree. I need to start to make base for rest 7 races.

What are we thinking about giving the sowers a really early game ability to terraform?

It depends, what you want to terraform and where? They already get in first 20 turns some terraforming skills... I could give them all terraforming skills but that would mean that their environment trait would be weaker than others.



Hard part is not to do changes but to realize where is balance.





Another issue with these is that this is all about 0.2. I am heavily burdened in trying to do 0.1 right now. I welcome ideas for 0.2 but I really can't/won't start to do these before I have done 0.1 (which should now get faster... localization file is going to be painful).

I'm having issues getting the technologies themselves to show up, now. I wish the game failed more predictably - sometimes it'll crash, sometimes the technologies just won't show up, and never does it tell me where I jacked up the XML.

Amen that, I had to about 15-30 minutes wonder where problem is when I managed to hide all my weapons, then I did find that I had , instead of . in weapons.xml.

I will release today (in 5 hours) version which has base for other races, their ships, weapons and so on.



Actually this is one reason why I always hesitate when others start to help me with my products, I have to rush more to reach a point where I have done groundwork for them :/









I'm not sure whether it's lack of interest or what but there haven't been any error messages last night... and I was sure that weapons which can't hit targets, defences which are too powerful and ships which destroy on first gunfire, could cause those .

I went ahead and added the Warfare tech tree to Sowers, United Empire, and Sophon. Laying the ground work is the fun part The stats suck right now, and I haven't written flavor text for the techs yet.



davea - thanks for the tip, that saved me a LOT of time!



What's in:

Terran, Sower, & Sophon special weapons w/ localizations.

Terran, Sower, & Sopon tech trees (similar to the Swarm tech tree Hupa made).

Custom tech trees for the Terran/Sower/Sopon weapons I had localizations for.



The stats won't make any sense, except maybe for the Terran weapons. I'm going to take a look at race-specific defenses or generic weapons next, but I'm probably done for tonight.
Dream0044.zip

Hupailija wrote:


It depends, what you want to terraform and where? They already get in first 20 turns some terraforming skills... I could give them all terraforming skills but that would mean that their environment trait would be weaker than others.



Hard part is not to do changes but to realize where is balance.





Another issue with these is that this is all about 0.2. I am heavily burdened in trying to do 0.1 right now. I welcome ideas for 0.2 but I really can't/won't start to do these before I have done 0.1 (which should now get faster... localization file is going to be painful).

After my 0.04 play through of the Sowers I feel like you may be right.



And I love how they play, even starting without weapons and corvettes is good in my books, as a combat transport ship is still a good vessel and I feel like the transports are under used.



The fighters seem an interesting choice seeing as they have no CP cost.

So I'm thinking about the traits of the Amoebas.



What about :



- No happiness problem from taxes but overpopulation would be stronger.

- More FIDS than other races (due to extreme simpleness of the race), what about 30 %

- Slower ships (20 %) - that can change with techs after (as huge cells, moving through space would be difficult)

- -1 pop on planets cause they are afraid of overpopulating ecosystems.

The fighters seem an interesting choice seeing as they have no CP cost.

I wonder how that no CP cost works... if it works like I want I really really love idea.

I mean they cost almost nothing, they don't use CP, requires nearly none research to get... but weapons and shields are really weak and (I have to see whether this is still true) one just can't put modules to fighters.

I think that it's closest to fighter one can get in this game.

And I love how they play, even starting without weapons and corvettes is good in my books, as a combat transport ship is still a good vessel and I feel like the transports are under used.

Funny that,



*this is secret don't tell to anyone*

I am trying to build system where only "colony ships" can use Invasion modules and one needs invasion modules to take control of planets.

I will reduce any limits from how long it takes to take control of system offensively BUT to take control one needs to send there loads of weakly armored, no defensive stat ships with invasion modules.





Only exception will be Pilgrims who just... well I need to figure out something really strange for them.