Hupailija wrote:
try and instead of ; not sure whether it works (it should) but if you see ; it basically means or



do remember that you have also lower branch to use... I myself have mostly used it for ships / non combat modules / empire improvements

I'll give it a shot - I'm geeking out on localizations right now . I have no idea how to balance a game like this - you're gonna have to take the lead in actually developing the modules, but I'll spec them out for you.

thashepherd wrote:
I'll give it a shot - I'm geeking out on localizations right now . I have no idea how to balance a game like this - you're gonna have to take the lead in actually developing the modules, but I'll spec them out for you.

Try to keep same weight system still intact, makes my job thousand times easier ... Problem with my balancing is that I do balance things.



Back in my compilation mod Igncom1 suggested that we rise kinetic weapon damages by 5%, well worked fine for him. For me, I went through all weapons, did count all possible values and ended up to actually rise average weapon damage by 1% but making balance to where isn't anything. Seriously, still when I look to original weapon values I can't but wonder what original coders have thought... those just don't make any sense at all. For kinetics rank 3 weapon is better than rank 7 and rank 4 beats any other weapon in damage/cost efficiency (if i remember right neither weight/cost efficiency was balanced) by 20%.





Then again quess for me it's all about trying to build some order to system where is none.

The ;->and change didn't SEEM to work, but I didn't bother researching enough to see if getting both researchers unlocked it anyway.



You're working on Swarm, right? When you come out with modules for that I can pick up on the system you use.



How do you work with Small, Medium, Large, and Huge? I did weight = 0.5, 1, 2, 4x and cost = 1, 1, 2, 4x when I made the Terran special weapon stubs, but I figure you have something more...elegant.



Actually, when I upload my stuff at the end of the night, if you can set up the common/generic weapons the way you like I can propagate that to the special weapons.

You're working on Swarm, right? When you come out with modules for that I can pick up on the system you use.

I just need to balance weight, make more interesting system to present existing one, make couple new ones and figure out some way for AI to understand difference between ship and starship engine... I could actually just remove spacestation engines (and instead make power system which can be put only to larger ships and which does weight a lot).



Also I need to make some special stats for race specific hulls and so on.



Boy I have actually been lazy yesterday, I spend whole day playing games. Can you imagine any worse way to spend ones time? -.-

How do you work with Small, Medium, Large, and Huge? I did weight = 0.5, 1, 2, 4x and cost = 1, 1, 2, 4x when I made the Terran special weapon stubs, but I figure you have something more...elegant.

actually nope, I really don't



Especially in this case I really need to be careful for not doing unbalanced things. (though since we are breaking AI anyway it doesn't really matter :P)













I will today post my ideas for Pilgrims (and I reserve Pilgrims (mostly because it's harder than rest and if I can pull it out like I want I can show tongue to Iblise and Swarm (I like it) to myself).



That basically leave Hissho, Horatio and Amoeba still left.



Hissho should be fairly easy.

Amoeba, following Epimethees work it's easy too.

Horatio.. god only knows.

Heh, I think Hissho and Horatio would be fun - but I've got my hands full.



You're gonna love the Terrans. They give exactly zero, uh, buckets. (What's the profanity policy on this forum?) These guys basically show up in the galaxy straddling a gigantic can of GFY and will open it at a moment's notice. The other races have incredibly advanced technology, evolved society, wonderful structures. But it's like the Mayans meeting the Spanish, or maybe like a squad of police running into a mechanized infantry platoon. For the Hissho, I imagine first contact with the Terrans would be like the Japanese waking up and seeing Commodore Perry's black fleet parked off their coast. These guys fought a wold war, suffered a global epidemic, fought a war five times bigger, and 100,000,000 million lives in the hole STILL figured that some ass had to be kicked. So they learned nuclear physics and spaceflight. And now that there's a whole lot of ass to be kicked and turf to be annexed out there in space, Terrans don't really have to fight each other any more - just the pesky colonials who keep getting in their way.



Edit: So military/colonial. I know your original plan was economic - I'm thinking replacing Sheradin with a faction with identical to UE tech, as sort of a "Dutch East Centauri Trading Company" entity. The Dutch East India Company had a fleet larger than most countries during its height, so I figure it's feasible from a story standpoint. Gonna go back and refine the Terran tech/story at some going.

Think about Pilgrims then, people who live whole life in spaceships.



Where others have tried to learn ways to farm or mine these guys have developed modules which does that. Knowing and perfecting their ships isn't just work for them... it's their life. For them idea of losing any people or ship is more valuable than idea of fair fight. They come to battle, launch their missiles and retreat... and in their wake there is countless enemy ships destroyed. They don't belive to mercy for they know what is to live without it, they don't belive to fair fight because they are being hunted by nation which didn't give it to them. All they know is this: spaceship is life, if someone tries to destroy it, you destroy him and run. Even though in fair spacefight they can be destroyed easily by almost anyone they can turn almost any fight to unfair one.



or swarm



2 legged ones use metal to protect their children, we don't understand them. 2 legged ones use metal as their weapon, we don't understand them. For us childrens are ships, our chidren uses their abilities as a weapon. Our childrens have learned how to survive the void. Our childrens learn fighting in their birth, they learn that only the strong wins in the end, they learn that the have to adapt and strife to beat other races... For we are swarm! These inferior beings can't understand that every metal slug they fire to us makes us better. They can't understand that every lost war turns to victory. We evolve, we learn, we get better... and our childrens are hungry... hungry for power.

I think you're following the line of logic left by the devs naming all Pilgrim files "the Resistance". In my opinion, any civilization such as you describe would be incredibly cowardly, their entire warfare strategy would be to prevent the enemy from being able to reach their territory and failing that evading the enemy.

Harel55 wrote:
I think you're following the line of logic left by the devs naming all Pilgrim files "the Resistance". In my opinion, any civilization such as you describe would be incredibly cowardly, their entire warfare strategy would be to prevent the enemy from being able to reach their territory and failing that evading the enemy.

Well it's quite understandable, I meet word: "resistance" 10 times more often than word "pilgrim" same for swarm too .



Yup, I am trying to make them cowards, they use missiles as a weapon, they have more "run away" battlecards than other races and so on... it's just that their ships are faster than other races and has way less health.



Main point of playing Pilgrim is to understand that majority of production does come from ship modules and system improvements are there just to let one build better ships faster.



Though I am going to let them have better starbases than other races.

[CODE]Interstellar Holdings Trading Group

A powerful collection of corporations seeking to maximize profit...and power.

Home Planet Type: Terran

Diplomatic Alignment: Neutral

Gameplay: Trading, Diplomacy

Main Victory Type: Economic/Diplomatic



The history of the Interstellar Holdings Trading Group is only a few decades shorter than the history of spaceflight. Initially, funds from several companies needed to be pooled just to afford an orbital venture. Centuries hence, the IHTG hosts representatives from 80% of the publicly traded offworld corporations in Terran space. Although typically peaceful and diplomatic, the IHTG maintains a small fleet and several trained security divisions in order to combat pirates and criminal syndicates. Although IHTG employees are generally United Earth citizens, the code of employee conduct is substantially stricter than the UE law when it comes to the rights to assembly or freedom of speech or the press. On the other hand, the IHTG corporate culture includes a far more tolerant and understanding outlook than is typical for Joe Q. UE. There is a rising sense of tension between the IHTG and the United Earth government; the IHTG is weary of losing contacts due to United Earth's bumbling attempts at diplomacy. In return, the UE seeks to restrict the IHTG's corporate autonomy, and it remains to be seen how the Interstellar Holdings Trading Group will respond.[/CODE]



[CODE] SOWERS

Robot builders, the Sowers are on a religious mission to prepare for the return of the long-lost Endless.

Home Planet Type: Tundra

Diplomatic Alignment: Neutral

Gameplay: Construction

Main Victory Type: Wonder/Military



The Sowers are a machine race created by the Virtual faction of the Endless. They were imbued with the directive to traverse the universe and make worlds livable and habitable for the arrival – or return – of the Endless. Although originally quite sophisticated devices, scholars debate whether they were created sentient or became so later, or even if they are scentient now. Typically single-minded in purpose, the Sowers come, establish industries, create the basic infrastructure needed to make a wild planet habitable, and move on to the next one. Although they seldom deviate from this routine and never attack or interact with other species, signs of learning have been observed in response to unusual stimuli. It is quite possible that the Sowers are far more intelligent and self-aware than is immediately obvious, and merely have not needed to deviate their core mission...yet.[/CODE]



[CODE]

SOPHONS

A highly advanced society with little need for governance due to advanced comprehension, they seek perfection of existence and universal knowledge.

Home Planet Type: Terran

Diplomatic Alignment: Good

Gameplay: Amazing Scientists

Main Victory Type: Scientific



Even as the Sophon seek new discoveries across the galaxy, they find themselves turning inwards - to the small, to the tiny imperfections in the quantum foam of existence. The Sophon alone understand the true nature of the universe. The all-consuming search for knowledge is genetically seared into the soul of all Sophons. For centuries they have studied with an almost religious fervor, but they do not share the reason why; there is rumored to be a deep, dark secret at the core of Sophon science. Perhaps there is some purpose behind their efforts. In recent years, Sophon has rapidly stepped up its shipbuilding and colonization efforts. Whatever their mission is, the climax is nearly at hand.[/CODE]



[CODE] United Earth

An imperialistic republic of hairless bipedal apes.

Home Planet Type: Terran

Diplomatic Alignment: Neutral

Gameplay: Colonialist

Main Victory Type: Population/Military



The other races have incredibly advanced technology, evolved society, wonderful structures. But meeting the Terrans for the first time is always like the Mayans meeting the Spanish, or maybe like a squad of police running into a mechanized infantry platoon. For the Hissho, first contact with the Terrans was like the Japanese waking up and seeing Commodore Perry's black fleet parked off their coast. These guys fought a wold war, suffered a global epidemic, fought a war five times big, and 100,000,000 million lives in the hole STILL figured that some ass had to be kicked. So they figured out how to make hydrogen bombs and spacecraft. And now that there's a whole lot of ass to be kicked and turf to be annexed in space, Terrans don't really have to fight each other any more - just the pesky colonials who keep getting in their way.[/CODE]



The Sophons are pretty cool - they know how the universe ends, a crazy Cthulu-esque paradox hidden deep within the bowels of science. They've literally stared The End in the face, they computed it, it's here and it's all around us and there's no possible way to stop it. But for the past couple hundred years they've been studied because damn it if they go out without trying. And it's been so long that they've forgotten why, but it's burned into them - either through evolution or because they genetically made themselves that way to suit their mission.



And then the Sowers are basically space puppies that see everything as new and interesting and hey why are you hurting me? Big tough simple friendly loyal golden retrievers, the Endless' best friend.

That brings me to my problem. allows you to list all of the technologies which can allow this one to be researched, but they're 'OR'd together. Is there any way to make them ALL required?

I just wenth through original .assets (pre 1.14 period) file and my heromod assets file.



Back then I tried to find way to produce effect where if you take some fleet related dependicies value you can't take administrator and otherway.

I didn't find any way to solve that mess... neither did I find way (if I remember correctly) to cause effect where there is 2 dependicies for 1 skill.



I tried to find some idea how sciencevictory gets it reduce to price... but that seems quite hardcoded :/ .

Bummer, I'll have to either let it be or find some way around it.



I'm done for tonight. I'll throw a zip of my work so far on your Mediafire, but I'm not really going to release it until tomorrow.

I like what your doing with regards to the different races in regards to their space-borne warfare.



However when it comes down to their ground invasion capability I feel like you may be being a little...narrow minded.





With how effectively modern systems are able to deal with enemy ordinance, and the advances made by empires that are space borne could effectively rule out any sort of space-to-ground weapons that have any sort of effectiveness.



And with ships having the capability to fly in the atmosphere as most shipyards will be there, I feel as it ground combat would be something on the level of a major world war, which is OK seeing as the population capacity for even small ships could number in the thousands with dreadnaughts having the capacity to even have sustainable populations numbering to a few billion.



Depending on the race would show how effective their type of warfare is, with the Sophon employing mobile assault platforms, and the UE using ground marines.

Now that I really think about it, the Pilgrims shouldn't be hop-skippity-hopping around the galaxy without ever stopping to rest. Sure they're designed to have the fastest, most easily produced ships, but that doesn't mean they never settle down. I think Pilgrim starbases should be very well developed to portray them as not a nomadic race like the Quarians of the Mass Effect universe, but as a race that lives fully in space colonies and ships.

Harel55 wrote:
Now that I really think about it, the Pilgrims shouldn't be hop-skippity-hopping around the galaxy without ever stopping to rest. Sure they're designed to have the fastest, most easily produced ships, but that doesn't mean they never settle down. I think Pilgrim starbases should be very well developed to portray them as not a nomadic race like the Quarians of the Mass Effect universe, but as a race that lives fully in space colonies and ships.

This may sound bit stupid reason but if I can take race and change it something what there hasn't been in game before and what game doesn't necessarily even support. I want to do it .



Of course it may not necessarily make sense... it doesn't make sense either that Sowers doesn't any food at all or that Crawers can regenerate 50%-75% of ship health in every single turn.



But think positively, atleast this makes completly different races with completly different way to play

Harel55 wrote:
Now that I really think about it, the Pilgrims shouldn't be hop-skippity-hopping around the galaxy without ever stopping to rest. Sure they're designed to have the fastest, most easily produced ships, but that doesn't mean they never settle down. I think Pilgrim starbases should be very well developed to portray them as not a nomadic race like the Quarians of the Mass Effect universe, but as a race that lives fully in space colonies and ships.

Somthing like this? /#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/12800-orbital-entrenchment-upgrades.



But of course it could also be applied to any spacefaring civilization.

You bring up a really interesting point. In the 'dealing with enemy ordinance' sense, it is MUCH harder to stop space-to-ground weapons - there's a huge energy difference there. Also think about how ground defenses would have to cover the entire planet, whereas you can concentrate orbital fire on whichever point you want. I think it's ground-to-space weapons that will ultimately lose their effectiveness (simulated by no fleet attrition when invading a world).



I'm not sure about ships in atmosphere. I assumed that smaller ships could land if they could, but I doubt that it's practical to build a large vessel like a dreadnought that's strong enough to land on a planet. Wouldn't most vessels have to be constructed in orbit?



Different species do invasions differently. The Hissho and Cravers don't 'take over' worlds, they just blow the everloving crap out of the planet and set up shop once everyone's dead. So they don't need to worry about winning a population over, or maintaining existing infrastructure, or even transporting troops to the ground in a hostile environment. The Sophon and Sowers don't really 'DO' conquering, at least not in the same sense. But the Terrans have thousands of years of experience in urban combat, COIN operations, annexing territory, setting up puppet states, spreading their culture and values, etc. So out of the races in Endless Dream, I figured they'd be the best at INVADING a planet and taking over what's already on it, rather than forging economic/diplomatic alliances or just killing everyone. The Terrans (and especially the IHTG) might even do something similar to 'gunboat diplomacy', where they park a powerful warship in a weaker system and tell the leader that they're calling the shots now, or ELSE.



What do you mean by 'mobile assault platforms' for the Sophon? All races are able to invade, it's just that the Terrans have a science branch dedicated to getting better at it. Also keep in mind that the Terrans don't start at the same tech level that the Hissho or Sophons do - so they may be developing space-to-ground weapons that other races have known about for centuries.



I look at the Hissho as Space Shoguns during the Meiji Restoration, and the Terrans are sort of Space Americans circa 1900. They're actually much more similar than any other races, and learn a lot from each other, but have a love-hate relationship.

In regards to power of space-to-ground Vs ground-to-space I feel like ground targets will always have superiority through there sheer power of mass, more space more power and with large enough deflection and shield projectors major city's will be invulnerable to any space fired weaponry, the mobility of ships prevents them being hit by return fire, effectively both sides can't win leading to ground invasions in a attempt to resolve the conflict.



I feel like both the Hissho and the Cravers wouldn't have the technology to employ effective enough bombardment weapons to brake such defenses leading to the need to create ground based weapons of war, to breach the defenses of the major city's and force a surrender from an undefended population or face extermination, different races would of course fight differently but few species have never faced conflict, even the Sophons will have a basic understanding of warfare and learning from the other races will make all the races in the end as effective at war or risk extermination.



As the Sophons are not a martial race they would likely rely on the technology to do the fighting, any sort of army they would create would likely involve as little manpower and risk as possible.

I think we can agree to disagree on space vs. ground fire superiority. Throughout history, the advantage has always shifted back and forth between offense and defense - and so it shall in this game.



The Hissho probably have the technology - I've always envisioned them as a powerful warrior race. They may have to choose between making small improvements to their powerful traditional weapons, or breaking with tradition and developing new types of weapons with an approval malus from the reactionary party. If they stick with traditional weapons, they kick ass up to tier 2, other species catch up in tier 3, and they're horribly backwards by tier 4. The only way they can be competitive late-game is to break with tradition, but they'll fall behind early on. Choices, choices.



I just can't see the Hissho or Cravers forcing a surrender, though. They don't seem like the type to conquer a people and absorb them into an empire - they take over planets and replace whoever lived there with more Cravers and Hissho.



We're in agreement about the Sophons.

The type of absorption by the Hissho and the Cravers is not one of absorption but more of domination, turning the dominated populations into either second class citizens or even shock troops, conscripts and slaves.



As there is no way to differentiate between peoples this will show you conquering the people but will leave the approval ratings to show the replacement of cultures and shutting down the revolutionary attempts of the populace, eventually your people will begin to out number there's but there is always work to be done, slave labor your people would find demeaning.

Igncom1 wrote:
The type of absorption by the Hissho and the Cravers is not one of absorption but more of domination, turning the dominated populations into either second class citizens or even shock troops, conscripts and slaves.



As there is no way to differentiate between peoples this will show you conquering the people but will leave the approval ratings to show the replacement of cultures and shutting down the revolutionary attempts of the populace, eventually your people will begin to out number there's but there is always work to be done, slave labor your people would find demeaning.

Maybe there's a way to base the approval drop on the planet's population at the time of invasion?